So... Is It "first To Try" Or Not?

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by javelin98, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    This is part of what has been annoying me lately about the printability status of certain models and the arbitrary nature of the QA technicians. I literally received the following two messages just hours apart.

    7 hours ago:

    10 minutes ago:

    These are literally the same model (product C6Z565SMF)!

    Seriously, Shapeways. Can we please get some quality control on the quality control?
     
  2. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    It's not exactly a matter of quality control if an item breaks, and more often than not such messages are indicative that the item broke during cleaning or packing. That's why WSF has the 1.0mm wire thickness rule, but for some items, you need significantly more thickness to keep it from breaking. I really wish that the post-printing process included photographs of anything that breaks.

    I've learned over the years that I must protect items which stick out a good bit. Your model has ?gun barrels? that protrude significantly. I have had a number of such items that I had to wrap with a cage to keep them from breaking during cleaning/packing/shipping.
     
  3. jimmyadvice
    jimmyadvice Shapeways Employee CS Team
    @javelin98 thank you for the feedback about this and I agree it is confusing. We have changed up how we print models internally, so there are going to be some issues when we split up these parts for printing, especially if one section prints ok and the other part breaks in cleaning. Our web and internal teams are working on the best way to make sure this doesn't keep happening.

    I agree with @stonysmith that better production information (including photos) will help down the line. It's simply a matter of having the manpower and time to do this, especially when we need to process.sort through hundreds to thousands of parts a day with our current staffing. They don't have the time to stop and photograph the broken pieces issues for now.

    Thanks again for the feedback (from both of you). It is definitely appreciated.
     
  4. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    Why are you splitting up the parts for printing? We have them connected by sprues for a reason, not the least of which is the parts-per-model penalty on WSF, but also because we don't want those parts to get lost. Am I to understand that Shapeways is altering our models before they are printed?
     
  5. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    Oddly enough, the gun barrels have never been a problem. 80% of the time a model fails, it seems to be due to Shapeways' bizarre allergy to sprues.
     
  6. jimmyadvice
    jimmyadvice Shapeways Employee CS Team
    @javelin98 we do not split parts that are sprued, but if a model file is submitted with multiple parts, we may print the parts separated to ensure they do not fuse during the printing process. We refer to this as "exploding" the model file into separate production orders (the numbers you see on your Shapeways model bags) but we are not changing or altering the model files on our end.

    In terms or sprues, we are not averse to them, but depending on the material you are printing in, this can have an effect on how successful the model will print since we are employing different printers and printing methods for our materials.
     
  7. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    I got a very prompt response from the Service folks after this model was cancelled:

    At this point, though, I don't know how I would redesign the model since it 1) already meets all published design guidelines, and 2) passed all the 3D tools checks. How am I to know what else needs to be done to "fix" the model if it already meets all your requirements?

    Is this even really an issue with the model, or with the technicians handling it?
     
  8. jimmyadvice
    jimmyadvice Shapeways Employee CS Team
    hey @javelin98 - @Lefteri is writing you back right now. He's the one that wrote the response above.

    Since you are handling this with him via email, let's keep the communication to a single channel so there is not any confusion or conflicting information.
     
  9. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    Will do. But since this is the same model that led to me launching this thread, I think it might be helpful to others to share whatever information Lefteri and I are able to glean from this experience.
     
  10. jimmyadvice
    jimmyadvice Shapeways Employee CS Team
    @javelin98 that's perfectly fine! But in terms of getting a solution, it's best to stick with the current email thread you have with us via service@shapeways.com

    The CS team also monitors this forum page, so when you post the same questions you are emailing about, it may seem like we are not answering your emails or you can get several people responding to the same issue when it's best if it flows through one person.

    @Lefteri is also working this forum page today, so if you would like for him to post any information here instead, let him know.
     
  11. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    Well, Lefteri tried his best to be helpful, but the bottom line is that, even though this product (especially its sprues) meets all the published guidelines and passed all the automated checks, it still might not be printable if it breaks in the hands of the technicians. He suggested I add fillets to where the sprues meet the model, but the problem there is that the fillets will make it more difficult for the customer to remove the sprues and could possibly lead to breaking the model while doing so.

    That leaves me with the following conclusions:

    -- I did everything correctly and strictly by the book.
    -- I utilized all the tools Shapeways makes available to ensure success.
    -- But it's my fault this design isn't working.

    So, somehow I have to meet an unknown standard that no one can enunciate until it fails, at which time we'll know I failed to meet the standard. Can you begin to see my frustration? I appreciate that this is still an emerging technology, and that neither you or Lefteri were the techs who witnessed firsthand what went wrong with the models, but there has to be a better answer than this.