**UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products**

A couple of small disclaimers:
1) I do think grouping is a good idea, but "it's complicated"
2) I am by no means privy to the internal priority list for enhancements.. I only work to extend the list (to infinity), and I do not directly participate in priority setting.
3) I wish to offend no one, just adding my own voice.

From my own perspective, I don't see how it would be possible to add Size Groups quickly, nor economically.
For one, the current database does not seem to be setup in such a way as to support linked models. Every model stands (or falls) based upon it's own merits. Second, Shapeways would need some way to ensure that various sizes are actually "identical shape". Third, the FirstToTry feature, while imperfect, can produce positive results (setting customer expectation) quickly, possibly increase sales (or reduce the number of returns) and thereby funding the Grouping option we all desire.

Let's say I make a 2mm thick ring, and present it in various sizes from 10 to 15mm in diameter. That is six different shapes... but they are not Identical. If the geometries were "the same", then the ring would be 2mm thick at 10mm, and 3mm thick at 15mm in diameter. Or, depending upon how my design process works, the ring might have started out at 2mm x 15mm and shrunk to only 1.33mm thick at 10mm. If I chose to print it in a material that requires 2mm walls, then the small ring at 1.33mm would fail and should not have been declared as printable just because the large ring worked.


In effect, I would be asking Shapeways to just "trust me" that the versions would all be printable, and their current systems require that printability is demonstrated first. Since Shapeways is not aware of what my design process is, they must inspect each item individually. This inspection (perhaps) could be done as a paid-for service, but I don't think it's reasonable to ask them to just assume that two models I arbitrarily link together are both automatically printable.

===
Now, on the other hand, something I think Shapeways could do (with less work) is to give the buyer the option to rescale a model upwards at the point of purchase (down-scaling won't work). If 'all' rings were designed at say size 5, then they could present the buyer with a dropdown of sizes 6,7,8,9,10 and use standard math ratios to increase the size. If they could do the resizing on their end, then they could know that the shape is identical, and larger items should "guarantee" to print if the smaller one did. Unfortunately, such a software fix would involve the walls on hollow items getting unnecessarily thicker as the item is upscaled. The buyer would incur extra expense over having each size designed individually to optimize the print cost. It's not a perfect solution, but it has it's merits.

Rescale UP will be a good choice. Scale down it is not practical and can land to print fails all the way.

Other services has a rescale option.

Yeah rescale would be nice.

So the designer could choose the smallest needed or possible size and afterwards increasing the size should not affect the print ability.
(Although there are a lot of rules concerning thin walls but I think scaling won't affect them)

Woody64

Scaling is not a universal solution for customized jewelry. For example, for the rings in my shop, I do not simply rescale the rings for the customer's ring size. I adjust the design of the band to appropriately support the face of the ring. The band thickness and the size of the front face remain constant.

For my part, my plan is to wait until Shapeways has fully rolled out the changes to the shops so I know what the results will look like. Then I'll add a sentence like this to my shop description: "You will always see 'First to Try' when you order a Kickin' Wiccan ring, because each ring is custom-designed for you. You are always the first."

Renders would not be an issue if those images appeared in the normal place when the user hovers/clicks the material selection just like the text changes, or as already proposed, as a popup. In the case of reusing the zone, clicking any of the thumbs would make the render go away and show the selected image.

This would communicate better what they are by separating them from the other images, as well as keep the thumb list shorter and cleaner. With the nice side effect that it would require less effort for ordering.

I skimmed some of this so sorry if it was covered, but...

I understand the material family bit of First To Try, and that WSF get flagged 100% for a coloured SF successful print.

But why doesn't polished WSF also get 100% flag with a successful coloured print?

It is the same, just without ink.

Hey guys,

Update as per the Announcement Thread: BETA PRODUCTS ARE LIVE TO SHOPPERS NOW!

Shoppers can see a selection of Beta Products in this Gallery - so when you put your product in beta, it will show up in this gallery for shoppers to browse.

What does this mean for you?

Here are a few things you can do now:

1. Create Your New Material Renders
For all of the materials that you are offering for sale, you can now create realistic renders of each material. You can pose & generate renders for all of your products, regardless of if they have been printed before. We've improved them based on a lot of your feedback, so check it out and pose your models!
Learn more There's ongoing renders discussion here, so feel free to join there for details, and to see what we've improved.

2. Tag Materials in Your Photos
If you have photos for each material you are offering for sale, you can tag them so they show up when shoppers select a material on your product page.
Learn More

3. Explore First to Try & Beta
You can learn more about how you can use these new tools to bring your products to market using 3D printing.

We also shared these features with you a few weeks ago and got some great feedback, some of which is already implemented in this latest iteration. So THANK YOU for your feedback.

But it's not too late to join the discussion! We're in Beta too and invite you to join Shapeways Insiders - help us shape the future! Sign up for future usability testing here

-Natalia

Well, now I see how it looks. I appreciate the ability to turn off the extra renders (which I've done). I've updated the description at my site so (maybe) the customers will understand why my co-created items will always have the "First to Try" icon.

My initial feedback is: If I remember correctly, Shapeways has acknowledged earlier in this thread that they don't have a good scheme for organizing variations on models or co-created items. Until this issue is resolved (if it ever can be), can designers have the option to turn off "First to Try" for co-created items?

Thank you for keeping photos first.

How do we report anomalies?

You can report them here and we'll pass them on

Variations are something that we're looking into with a very keen eye- while it's frustrating to make a minor change and have a product return to FTT stage, it's also so we can guarantee we can print it. While it's challenging to distinguish between a simple change and a complete iterative overhaul at this time, we hope to be able to in the future.

Regarding image ordering and moving them around- keep this feedback coming! It's a feature we've been hoping to integrate and your words add fuel to the engine that can make it happen.

@wgseligman: How do you turn the horrible renders off??? Mike

Hi Shapeways Team,

BIG PROBLEM !!!! The horrible renders shows up even though I have tagged REAL photos of the materials. Why??? And worse... the horrible renders show up at default image so when you visit my shop and see the e.g. the 'IBA1M US10 MOVE FWD' you will see the stupid render as the first image representing the product. This is NOT OK!! Obviously I don't want a render to represent my product when I have real photos. And... the renders don't look anything like real. When you launch something new like the renders for the materials you should make sure to have worked out a way to arrange photos BEFORE this launch. ALL photos are now mixed up in a COMPLETELY random order and the shop owners are unable to re-arrange them. WHY? It's an old issue.

Please see attached screen dumps 1) my real photo is tagged as default image but 2) the render appears as the default photo in the shop which has never been the case since I tagged real photos when launching the product.

PLEASE CORRECT THIS ASAP!!! At least allow us to disable the renders until you have fixed the issue with arranging the order of photos.

Mike

You can disable the Renders in your Shop Settings (i.e. globally, not on a Product level).

Sell --> Shop Settings

The bug about default image not appearing in the shop should have already been fixed, before all else imo, and setting the photo order should be a top priority.

However ....

@AmLachDesigns,

Thanks have now turned off the renders that I believe won't serve much good. One thing is that they overrule the photos regarding order of appearance another thing is that the look completely wrong... E.g. the stainless steel renders for my products looks like the real Polished Bronze Steel. Good thing they can be turned off However the organizing of order of appearance for photos/images should still be top priority as everything keeps moving around in my shop.

Mike

Hi All,

Happy you've been able to sort out your issues. I know a change like this can be challenging to get used to, and its inspiring to see you all help each other.

I've been advocating for the ability to sort/order photos for awhile here, I genuinely hope it can happen soon. Thanks for the feedback as always!

Best,
Sav

I have not setup a shop yet, just selling discrete product(s), why not have that option against an account too?

I've already mentioned it, but I think that the "upload of a new version" will make us designers a lot of troubles.

If the item is already in the product stage we are loosing this status completely. But in the most cases we only will have small adaptations of the mesh.

Any chance to have a work flow like that:

Product (new upload, checks ok, volume change < +/- 3%) => Product
Product (new upload, checks nok or volume change > +/- 3%) => First To Try

Many of the designers take an invest to test their items. Often small changes are necessary. Sometimes small changes based on user feedback are necessary. With the actual workflow we loose this invest ...

That it is the risk of designing. Shapeways has no responsibility to enable "finite product" on a modified product. It is valid in any place you go to do it , you must print it again even for the smallest modification. Any modification to a product means that product it is a new version / revision.

I don`t like it either but I have learned that it is part of the learning process , and in line to the legal system.

In music you change 2 -3 musical notes you end with a new melody line. It my sound the same but there it is a noticeable difference.

This revolves around the definition of "small" - for your miniature helmets, a three percent change in volume might work, but that same percentage would probably also cover adding a fancy feather to a landsknecht beret (or similarly thin and delicate objects, railings, antennas etc. in other kinds of models)

No sorry, can't follow your statements.

In each release management you differ between minor and major changes.

If you change some single notes (i.e. a bass line of an arrangement) you still have the same piece. A platin sold music piece you won't never ban back to a "first to try" (to stay in SW wording) piece only by changing some notes (mesh points) in the arrangement.

Still both SW and the designer want to sell items. So disatracting possible sellers from valuable items can't be in both interest

From different points of view there are the scenarios:
1) Buy an established product: get what you have seen on the pictures in the specified time frame (good for all stake holders)
2) Take a look on a "first to try" and decide to stay away (not good for SW and the designer)
3) Buy a first to try and all is ok (good for all stake holders)
4) Buy a first to try and have multiple print trials to have a successful print (that was also SW risk before the First To Try)
5) Buy a first to try, get a reject by the manual test, .... (also not new and changed by the new status)
6) Having a product, do an update and fall into more buyer's decisions as shown in 2)
....

So what has really changed now is 2)

Woody64