New Metal Options?

As mentioned earlier, DMLS would be mind blowing. It can do the same designs as SLS, in full density metal.

Titanium would be extremely expensive (like the current silver prices or more); but stainless 17-4 would be very reasonable, with the economy of scale the price would be like the current stainless price but with much greater flexibility and improved performance.

The economy of scale would be readily apparent, DMLS with stainless can replace so many slow and expensive processes typically used for metal parts, like forging, milling, stamping, and drawing. Plus it has unlimited possibilities and you can do stuff like captive and floating parts, the stuff that you see being done with the plastic parts now.

It depends on if you are using forced air like a fan. If you have longitudinal flow along the surface of the heatsink you want it to be smooth, or at least smooth in the direction of airflow. If you are relying on natural convection you want it to be rough just to maximize surface area. Remember the chart for Reynolds number, there is a big knee going from still air to moving air.

(see above message about titanium vs stainless in DMLS) There would be many more people looking for precision, pure stainless parts than titanium parts, especially at titanium prices. Plus at small scale the weight difference is really outweighed by the strength of stainless vs titanium

Also, DMLS has literally the same limitations as SLS - powder bed supports thin wires and overhangs. Some of the most ridiculous shapes have been made with the DMLS process, because the strength of metal means you can use much thinner supporting members than plastic.

Well, cast aluminum would have the same detail as silver. But aluminum costs 1/430th as much as silver. So if we extrapolate that out to the silver price on Shapeways, that would be 1.8 cents per cubic centimeter - that's pretty cheap right? Plus, you could do more interesting designs in aluminum - because it's stronger than silver.

Edited: Actually I did not factor in the density of both metals. The ratio is actually 1/3435. So the price would be 0.23 cents

The cost of metal is a very small component of the cost of silver builds, expect the costs for base-metal casting to not very much cheeper than silver.

Actually, it looks like the market price for silver would be at about $9.22 per cubic centimeter right now, so they are tagging the volumetric build price very close to the price of silver, possibly taking a loss or speculating on it even.
Please check my math, i'm not being too careful - the number above should actually be 1/1465 or right around 1 cent per cc - because of the troy ounces conversion

Whilst you're checking the maths, what's the cost of the wax print? There's so much more to factor into the cost of the printed 'metal' than just the cost of the raw metal - all of this was mentioned when Shapeways first offered Silver as a material. I don't think you'll find a better priced option for a one off silver (or any other cast metal) design than what Shapeways offer - the first item of a silver design made traditionally will cost anywhere between 5 and 15 times the cost of the same item from Shapeways. Obviously the cost does fall thereafter, however the service Shapeways offer ensures that anyone with the modelling skills can create that one off special gift item for a fraction of the cost.

Asides from the raw material cost, I envisage no difference in the initial creation cost of whatever material an item is made in, after-all, 3D printing is also known as rapid prototyping and is comparatively very cost effective.

Paul

Maybe, but the $30 setup charge isn't going to change. So anyone wanting a base metal piece made is going to have to pay at least $35 to have it made. We will have to see what the size restraints are going to be, but I don't expect them to be anything to different to the silver ones.

A lot of the cost from DMLS comes from labor. Unlike plastic, metal requires more heat and cannot be just supported with the powder during printing, so we'll need to print sprues as part of the printing process. Now, printing sprues also means machining off sprues, which is labor (which is $$). That's unfortunately, not going to change even in Stainless Steel powder. So while, yes, we can do it.. I don't think price is going to be significantly lower if we use an alternative material to titanium (for DMLS).

For casted metals, a good chunk of it is handling and labor as well, it takes machine & labor to cast something--regardless of material. In fact, some material that cost less in silver might actually be more difficult to cast in silver.

I hope that gives you guys some insight into the various components of the price.

We will, of course, aim to keep prices reasonable--which is a big consideration when thinking about DMLS vs. Casted Metal vs. other production techniques we're looking at.

Hey Nancy,

How you keeping?

Wax print then cast is a much better option than DMLS from a designer's point of view and is more cost effective (= cheaper) from my personal research.

Paul

While i voted for Titanium because of my love of reactive metals if you can have other fine metal options i know the jewelers on here would be THRILLED!

Fine Jewelry metal options:

Palladium, it's cheaper than Platinum, it's lighter and also a bit whiter.

Platinum, "classic" expensive metal which oddly enough is cheaper than Gold right now...

Gold, customers LOVE gold. Period. They see the value in it as the metal and for the most part are willing to pay for said value.

Since we already have silver, can we have the option to Plate that silver with gold?

Also what you might do is base the fine metal prices off of the current market value like what most jewelry stores do. I know a lot of jewelers who use the site www.kitco.com for their daily pricing.

-my 2 cents

Ray

So theoretically, if you bought >25 cc of silver from Shapeways, you could melt it down and resell it at their expense

a $30 setup is still pretty good for aluminum. I have paid a lot more in setup fees for the same service. They always charge the market rate for the actual material though.

The melt price of sterling silver is nowhere near the cost of Shapeways 'printed' Silver, buying a print to sell as scrap is a surefire way to lose money.

Forget about the actual cost of the raw metal, there's loads of other factors involved with Shapeways empowering people to hold their ideas in their hands.

You're right for the most part, but they do say it's 92.5% pure silver, so they really are charging below market rate for it...

I'm just thinking that a much cheaper option would open a lot more doors for ideas. They could charge 50x price of aluminum, the same setup fee as silver, and you would be able to make a fist sized aluminum object for $50. That would be $100's+ in silver

92.5% Silver is called Sterling Silver - I'm not sure how you calculate the prices, but according to my maths, to buy 1cc of certified sterling silver is around $9.50 + taxes, Shapeways are charging $20 + taxes for 1cc non-certified Silver. And don't forget the sale value of non-certified Sterling Silver is way less. In reality this is like comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini - they're both makes of car but different kinds.

Yes that's about right, and please remember that all of this was mentioned when Shapeways first offered Silver as a material, have a search through the forums - no point going over it all again

So, for each cc from shapeways you are paying $1.50 less than you would otherwise. So once you get 20cc that covers the setup charge. Then a few more covers shipping and taxes. I'm not saying it would be profitable - it's just tickling my funny bone to think of 3D printing silver bullion.


They did just release this poll, so I'm assuming it's up in the air again. i'm hopeful for it!

Certified Sterling Silver = $9.50 per cc
Shapeways non-certified Sterling Silver = $20 per cc

The difference is $10.50 in Shapeways favour.

But if you read that as different, go ahead, it's your money.

Oh, silly me, I was looking at the $8 price for stainless. The colors threw me off. Thanks for catching me before I tried to curb the silver market!

:laughing:
It is said a picture speaks a thousand words, but sometimes it is worth reading the words too

I've got a slight massive case of pictorial-numeric dyslexia I guess