jump line in large models.

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by jcbear, Jun 4, 2014.

  1. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    I guess everybody actually applauds the addition to the materials information, just please mention such changes somewhere (and please do not tell us that some page has "always" been that way when anyone can just enter the page url on web.archive.org to see the changes for themselves. We want to trust that what information there is does not change surreptitiously).
    BTW the old format pages linked to an excerpt from an EOS-sponsored diploma thesis that contained some useful background information on wall/wire quality variation with thickness - could this be brought back, or is it outdated ?
     
  2. Andrewsimonthomas
    Andrewsimonthomas Well-Known Member
  3. jcbear
    jcbear Member


    Mitchell Jetten's comments usefully clarify the basis of this problem, and its several aspects.

    1. My model is not bigger than it "can" be – it fits in the bounding box and was in fact printed!

    2. It is certainly not bigger than it "should" be – I wanted a version of the model that big! If Shapeways could make a version 200 cm high I might be interested in that, too, but this size is appropriate for what I have in mind at the moment.

    3. And this is not a new problem. "Way back", this issue was not highlighted on the materials page. And some customers wanted big prints that used the 650 mm dimension of the bounding box – no surprise. And there was "even more frustration." Again, no surprise.

    Now, I'm assuming "Big Bertha" machines, as characterized by Natalia, are the EOS P760, which is their 2-laser model. The manufacturer's general descriptive information does mention that the machine can make components up to 700 cm long. However, they are more interested in emphasizing the output volume possible with it. Their description includes a particularly relevant sentence: "The maximum building height of 580 mm enables the construction of larger plastic components without the need for part assembly after production." The manufacturers see this as primarily a volume production machine that can build 580 mm high, not a 700-cm-long machine.

    Shapeways is naturally interested in producing 3d prints as quickly as possible. This is completely reasonable for them and for their customers, and presumably why they have equipped themselves with higher-production machines.

    And that worldview may well account for Mitchell's characterizing my print as bigger than it "should" be, and bigger than it "can" be, even though it is manifestly printable, and even though it is the size I wanted or I wouldn't have ordered it that size. And even though it's not the first such model to give him headaches.

    It's the difference between overall production volume and what some customers want. From experience -- mine, Mitchell's, and other customers', a solution would be to describe the capacity for larger prints as something like:

    'Maximum bounding box 650x350x550. Note, however, that this size uses a 2-laser printer and models larger than 350 by 350 by 550 will [not may, will ] have a visible line where the lasers overlap in printing. This must be mechanically removed by the customer, if it is not desirable.'

    In such cases, a discount should be offered, given the time/tools/whatever required to get rid of the line, especially as a large print will be an expensive one. Depending on the print, this work could take a few hours.

    Further, wording clearly describing this aspect of the printing process should have been in place on the materials page from the time that these relatively large prints were first offered. You can't make everybody happy, but avoiding unpleasant surprises does help quite a bit.
     
  4. AmLachDesigns
    AmLachDesigns Well-Known Member
    Try reading the sentence Mitchell wrote this way (my change in bold):

    I think Mitchell was saying that he thinks your jump line is not correct printing and that they will help you solve your problem possibly with a re-print...all my inference, of course, I'm sure Mitchell will correct this if I am wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  5. AmLachDesigns
    AmLachDesigns Well-Known Member
  6. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    I read your post twice, and I'm unsure if I understood what you tried to say, I'm really sorry.

    AmLachDesigns "fixed" my sentence, thank you.
    I was indeed referring to your so called "jump line", or what we call a laser overlap.

    The overlap of lasers on your model is worse than our quality team should have approved.
    If you contact Customer service (service@shapeways.com) we can have our production team investigate this (check the machine settings) and provide a suitable solution.
     
  7. jcbear
    jcbear Member
    Mitchell,

    I took the "it's" in your final sentence to mean "model," and the rest of my interpretation/argument flowed from there. My apologies and my thanks for your patience.

    And thanks to AmLach for figuring this out.

    I will put together a message to service, and send it.

    Thanks,

    J C Bear