Svengoolie FUD woes

Discussion in 'My Shapeways Order Arrived' started by spaceboy412, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    This was my first time using FUD which i did because of the detail. The model is 2.75inches tall. I have to say i was amazed at the detail it held from my sculpt.

    However i'm greatly disappointed with this Banding which happened to the front and back of the model, its doesn't appear to be normal stepping because instead of the typical pyramid stepping this actually goes "in and out" and at the same size intervals, its almost as if it was shifting or something in the tray.
    I've tried to illustrate it in this pic, considering how detailed FUD can be i'm somewhat bothered with whatever happened here, and unsure as to if FUD is worth it.
    A good example of this 'wavy' banding is on the chickens neck which should be a smooth line as in the sculpt pic.
    The model has been very lightly primed to make it easier to see, obviously if i sand this it will destroy the detail.
    The green lines also indicate a very slight symmetrical slash (which was not in my sculpt) on the front of the coat which i suspect was from the support material, too bad that wasn't on the back instead.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  2. ancientbuzzard
    ancientbuzzard New Member
    spaceboy412

    Sorry to say it seems to be an ongoing problem with FUD, that has been the subject of several threads, including one I started;

    http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=3774 7&&srch=fud#msg_37747

    Unfortunately FUD promises to be such a good material, but the problems remain.

    Despite giving permission for my pictures to be used on the FUD material page to illustrate this very problem, the page has not been updated to warn buyers of this.

    Andrew
     
  3. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    Thank you, I'm reading through all that now, I'm really frustrated because if i had known that would be an issue i would have used another material. I'd rather lose some detail then have that banding. I wish they would have listed that as a issue on the material page.

    Do you know if this happens with the White Detail material?
     
  4. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    Spaceboy, have you contacted Support about your print? I'd send them pictures and an explanation of the issue and they'll get you fixed up.
     
  5. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    ah okay i'm doing that now thank you.
     
  6. ancientbuzzard
    ancientbuzzard New Member
    spaceboy412

    I've not used Shapeways White Detail for a long time, so others would be better placed to answer that. Hopefully Customer Services will give you a voucher to use against a reprint in another material (and shipping if it was the only thing you ordered?). So it has cost you disappointment and them money, which could be avoided if they had amended the materials page.

    I'm sure Youknowwho4eva would agree that what Shapeways is aiming for is to clearly identify the quality we can expect?
     
  7. JoostDenissen1
    JoostDenissen1 Shapeways Employee CS Team
    Hi spaceboy412,

    I have just emailed you about your received model. I have created a complaint for you.

    Please accept our apologies for the bad quality of the model.

    Regards,

    Joost
     
  8. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    I think for cases such as this one, the materials page shouldn't be updated, as these results are not acceptable. And I would state that Shapeways is aiming to clearly identify what you expect of the quality. Rather than shapeways saying "this is the process we pick, live with it" the goal would be "the majority like the results of this process so this is what we'll supply"

    I can't say for sure, but I think FUD problems have a lot to do with the delay in FUD right now. I think once new machines are up and running, things will start to look a lot better.
     
  9. ancientbuzzard
    ancientbuzzard New Member
    Youknowwho4eva

    I agree the results he received weren't acceptable, but Nancy did offer on 1 November;

    I can place a warning on the FUD page. Do you mind if I use your models as an example of the roughness?

    It does not appear to be an isolated issue, as postings by others show, and there may be a silent number out there who opened the pacakge and thought "oh, not what I expected, I'll try somewhere else".

    The problem may only be whilst they are trying to resolve the problems. But that means everyone who has placed an order in the last three weeks (and until they fix it), and did not read all the posts in the forum first, is unkowingly taking a gamble.

    As a result they may be very disappointed (even if a reprint is done, it will currently take nearly a month to be received) and never order from Shapeways again. Even if a reprint or voucher for a different material are issued, and well done Shapeways for doing that, surely it is better to manage expectations based on what Shapeways currently can offer, not on what they hope will be the case when the new machines/settings/materials are implemented?

    To say that the only options are

    "Rather than shapeways saying "this is the process we pick, live with it" the goal would be "the majority like the results of this process so this is what we'll supply"

    misses the point. Surely there is the third option of

    "the majority like the results of this process so this is what we'll supply, but there may be limitations that you should be aware of"?

    Andrew
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  10. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    Thank you JoostD, i appreciate that. :)

    As to the rest of the discussion i don't really feel qualified to add much. I made my order on Oct 20 so it was before Nancy's Nov 1st post, which i missed anyway, i'm still not sure where to look for certain things in this forum.
    I'm not sure what the correct course of action for the material page would be, however i generally believe the more info the better informed decisions i can make. if there had been a post of a image showing something with the detail that FUD is capable of but also saying the drawback may be lines, also with a image, then that at least would have been something that i could use as a deciding factor as to which material to go with.
     
  11. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    Andrew: lots of good points, but I don't want to swamp this post post with outside discussion, perhaps in the 3D printing section?

    Spaceboy: I'm glad they got you fixed up. They always do :D
     
  12. ancientbuzzard
    ancientbuzzard New Member
    Youknowwho4eva

    I agree, as there's been enough said on this for a while anyway.

    We can get back to designing, Shapeway's to printing, and let "It's arrived!" return to things of joy!

    Andrew
     
  13. Sadwargamer
    Sadwargamer New Member
    Unfortunately FUD continues to deliver very poor quality models.

    I have ordered thousands of dollars worth of FUD since it became available but over the last two months all my orders have had this terrible banding (not layering due to print process but real banding that undulates in random places of the models). My last 4 prints totally almost $800 i have had to reject due to quality issues.

    yes I have contacted support , and as usual they have been fantastic in handling my complaints. The first model reprint was sent, but yep it too was poor quality awaiting a reprint of the reprint!

    The other models i am now very concerned at receiving as I strongly believe they will not be as my previous models ordered in terms of quality.

    I even asked that the last print ($250! worth) should be really quality checked - but alas it was still shipped with banding issues...

    I will be contacting support tonight to request a refund for the latest print instead of a 2 week wait for a reprint that I have zero confidence will be any good.

    Clearly FUD worked - I was extremely happy with quality and ramped up production and encouraged my customers to use it, but now something has changed - and shapeways and their partner on FUD need to trace back to when the errors occurred (the forum would be good start as will support complaints numbers) and see what has changed - is it a new batch of print material , a change on how the material is stored, new machine settings...I seem to recall the change occurred around the new pricing structure time (which was even worse !)

    Does anyone know of another print bureau who offer the Projet MJM printer like shapeways? even if its more expensive I would rather pay the extra for good quality prints each time!

    Regards
    Andy
    (A very unhappy shapeways customer :( )




     
  14. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    Just wanted to add that they are going to reprint, i wish they would have given me a voucher though so i could choose a different material, but fingers crossed.
    here is what they wrote, so maybe they have gotten it under control:

    "We are actively looking into the problems we have with the machines. Adjustments have been made."
     
  15. Sadwargamer
    Sadwargamer New Member
    An interesting comment:
    "We are actively looking into the problems we have with the machines. Adjustments have been made."

    But I received this:
    "I am very sorry this keeps on happening to your models, but unfortunately this is the quality you can expect in this material. We are looking for other Production Facilities and we have also found one, but I understood from my colleague that the quality is the same." (My emphasis)

    My recent reprints were cancelled and I recevied a refund as the last print was also bad (5th in a row!) Unfortunately one of the reprints on order is too far down production cycle so I will wait on that. But have zewro confidence it will be any good which really disappoints me as previously teh quality was perfect.

    regards
    andy




     
  16. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    @sadwargamer I'm sorry you've been having such bad luck. What they told you worries me even more now, i really don't want to go through a complaint again if they already know its going to turn out bad, i wonder which info is correct.
    i wish they had given me the option of reprint or voucher without just going straight ahead.
    Hopefully it is fixed and my model and yours will be ok.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  17. TomBurns
    TomBurns New Member
    I have been printing small models through another vendor using the same type of equipment Shapeways uses for FD and FUD (ProJet 3000). I have not encountered any of the problems I have seen reported here with banding, incomplete curing, yellowing, etc. It IS avoidable. I was planning to order some test prints in FUD soon, but if this turns out to be a chronic problem I might have to reconsider.
     
  18. spaceboy412
    spaceboy412 Member
    Got my reprint yesterday, with mixed results.

    The Good: NO BANDING!!!

    The Bad: big distortion on the left leg, probably from being removed before curing
    The two-layer effect(i think its called that), one side was nice and smooth, the other rough and had some white residue, the biggest problem with this was slight loss of detail on the rough side, but the worst part of it was that it left a visible seam right down the middle of the model. That could have been fixed by allowing a choice in orientation.
    I am confused as to the rough/smooth thing though, why its not one or the other.

    I wonder if they even do a quick comparison with the 3D model before they ship and what kind of quality control inspection they go through.
    It does seem like they are moving in the right direction but i would hold off before i ordered something in FUD myself.

    Should i file for a complaint for a reprint due to the distortion, i don't know?

    DSCF0308.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011