Specific Engineering Tables

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by samuraidave_1, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. samuraidave_1
    samuraidave_1 New Member
    I am interested in having specific engineering Qualities for your materials.

    I believe this data may be available with MSDS or in material providers data. If not I suggest an engineering dept at a University (or individuals) to create a test and test samples for analysis.
    It would be great for engineering oriented Design for your Customers. There already are some great references with accuracy of 3d print on your site.

    In Specific: Material Density, Melt Temperature (Tm),Modulus of Elasticity, Yeild Stress, Tensile Strength, Fracture toughness, Environmental Resistance: Flame, Fresh water, Salt Water, Sunlight, Wear.

    This information may open an untapped prototype market by allowing parametric design for your processes and materials.

    Thank You,
     
  2. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    We are using this stuff, like it's never been used before. We do some tests, you can see some tests on the Shapeways YouTube channel. There has also recently been a microwave test. A lot of the info is already available on the materials pages as well as from the printer manufacturers.
     
  3. aeron203
    aeron203 New Member
    The manufacturers have published the properties of their materials, so they are common knowledge in professional industry. What has not been tested is suitability for every specific application, because there are millions of combinations of design possibilities. The numbers do very little to express the material properties to the average person, so showing demonstrations in context is very useful.

    All material information has been kindly compiled by Terry Wohlers Here.
     
  4. samuraidave_1
    samuraidave_1 New Member
    Thanks for the Table reference: Nylon and Acrylic but That is fine for extruded nylon but there are obvious differences in a 3d printed part, the porous surface changes the qualities. Aluminide is a mixture of polymer and Aluminum dust changing the qualities again. Yes, there is a general material comparison and that would suit most uses for a "hobbyist". But there are Professionals like the Dremelfuge http://www.shapeways.com/shops/labsfromfabs designer that are doing Engineering on their free time and utilizing your resource to do amazing things.
    If I still had use of a University Engineering Lab I would test them for sake of the research. I agree that some people don't understand the information, but the presence of finite details would help.
     
  5. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    If shapeways were to specify tensile strength etc. for their materials, they would have to take QA to a
    totally different level to ensure that their specifications were met by any single twisty part produced.
    There is enough variation in visual quality and dimensional accuracy between batches with the current
    printing processes that I would not want to guess about consistent mechanical properties.
    Even the dremelfuge guy is selling his contraption "for ornamental purpose only" despite describing
    how well it works as a microcentrifuge. Now imagine someone creating handlebars or stems for cyclists.
    If you want to create mechanical parts that take any kind of safety-critical load, the only way to make sure
    would be to order them in large batches and do your own testing.
     
  6. aeron203
    aeron203 New Member
    Take a look at the later pages and you 'll see the information you requested. Only the first page contains "generic" figures. All the other information is directly from the manufacturers who engineered the materials specifically for certain printing processes, then tested the output (PA2200 Nylon and Alumide are in there).

    I do agree that it would be silly to read too much into those numbers because of all the factors involved. For example, Shapeways re-uses a larger percentage of their SLS nylon powder than most service bureaus to make the cost lower, and it noticably changes the quality. Hopefully anyone with the knowledge base to work out their design based on things like tensile strength has enough real world experience not to make assumptions based on a list of figures that are really just for reference.

    I personally think design quality in manufacturing has suffered due to the accessibility of this type of information. Things like bridges, houses and appliances were once heavily overbuilt to compensate for variation in materials and other unknowns. Now designers aim for the absolute minimum to make things cheap, and it shows. I hope we return to that mindset when designing in the context of 3D printing, once it becomes obvious that we have very little control over factors like material variation and production.

     
  7. samuraidave_1
    samuraidave_1 New Member
    Thank you again, I didn't get to look at the entire chart yet but that was exactly what I wanted.

    I agree that manufactured obsolescence and bare minimum engineering has sacrificed durable goods in favor of higher profit margins.

    There is no excuse for Dangerous Design and I am not suggesting that anyone create products that may endanger consumers without proper safety considerations in manufacture and design this is why the information is useful.