Scaling a model

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by manalokos, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. manalokos
    manalokos New Member

    It would be great if we could choose a scale ratio for our models so without uploading we could print them in slightly bigger sizes, ie. adjusting the size of a ring to fit the finger, etc.

    Best regards
    Filipe Alves
  2. OBjuan
    OBjuan New Member

    Given the technology, every end user who orders a thing should be able to set the scale to whatever they want.

    Now I admit this would create some issues on SW's end, like what if the new scale breaks printability.
    Mostly, I imagine, scaling down would be the issue - So just let the Orderee scale it up if they like.
    Also let the Shop Owner specify various default sizes.

    That way we Shop Owners can build it as dainty as we think possible, set a variety of likely sizes, set the primary default size, and give the Orderee the option to do something else. Everybody wins, especially your moneymaking a$$ $hapeways.

    As to the money, Shop Owners should be able to specify if they are willing to just take the same mark up on the new larger model, or if they want a proportionately scaled up markup.
  3. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    I (was) all for this option a couple of years ago, but I have realized that there are two exceptions that must be considered.

    1) As you mention above, if you design an item with hyper-detail, then allow DOWN scaling, it would result in parts that are too delicate to print.
    2) Somehow, there would have to be some kind of exception for weapons. I could build a hyper-accurate machine gun for a Lego figure and then the user could simply scale up to a full-size working model. Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea.. They'd have to figure out some way to prevent that.
  4. AmLachDesigns
    AmLachDesigns Well-Known Member
    A good idea in principle.

    I think the stumbling block is most likely the list of projects SW already has and the priorities they place upon them. They keep this list pretty close to their chests, but I would suspect that this mod would feature pretty low. The work involved (scaling software to implement, test and maintain and the modes to the pricing/mark-up modules/Classes/whatever) is not negligible.

    It is after all quite easy for a designer to create a Model the size they want and take responsibility for that Model. But if a Model when scaled up has too few polygons and looks/feels awful whose responsibility is that? Quite a few designers seem to get confused by the difference between inches and millimeters (not to mention mils...that's me) so if a customer modifies the size and gets it wrong can we blame them? When you see a picture on the shop page what size is it and how will the finish scale?

    I know other sites have this capability, but apart from rings I cannot think of too many really suitable applications.
  5. Freakazoitt
    Freakazoitt Well-Known Member
    I think, it should be possible to rescale rings only.
    So, modeller will upload smallest size and customer will be able to enlarge it.
    For other models there will be some problems. Simply enlarging most models will cause bad detailization.
  6. SnowyRiver
    SnowyRiver New Member
    So, here's a thought for an alternative to scaling. (I like the idea of scaling, and there are definitely applications other than just rings, but there are some significant problems with straight scaling, even with rings. Consider a ring with a wall thickness of 1mm designed at ring size 1. If that ring were scaled up to ring size 16, the wall thickness of the ring would also scale to about 2mm. That'd be a pretty fat ring...)

    What about the idea of creating classes of objects? Taking the ring example, let a designer create models for size 1, 2, 3, etc., and upload them all, set price on each of them, etc., but then set them all to show up as one item in the store, where the customer would select size and see the final price. This would allow for a more dynamic option than simple scaling. It would provide the designer substantially more control over not only sizes that things would be printed in, but also what changes as size changes.

    While I can see that this wouldn't answer all of the issues that smooth scaling would cover, I think it might address a lot of them and not create as many problems. Also, it really shouldn't be that hard for SW to implement, as it's really only changing how products are displayed. (Of course, when I say "shouldn't be that hard", I do realize that changing coding on the website to allow something like this is not a trivial thing. I really only trying to say that this shouldn't be as hard as some of the other approaches.)
  7. Nanfeng
    Nanfeng New Member
    I have the same problem, when I upload the model. it is a little complicated, if I want to re scale a upload model by re upload the model.
  8. bartv
    bartv New Member
    I think all angles have been covered pretty well here:

    - Scaling comes with it's own problems. Not just downscaling, but enlarging as well!
    - We're forced to focus on some other things first, and ensure we can make our designers and shop owners as successful as possible.
    - Some people are already using the 'Product Sets Mod' from the Shapeways Labs to achieve this. It's a bit hacky, but it works.

    I'll double-check to see if this issue is on our community wishlist!
  9. OBjuan
    OBjuan New Member
    Scaling is still on my wishlist for sure, if not right at the top.

    I think a good, and pretty simple, solution would be to give the end user an option to scale at the time of purchase - and then a big yellow warning screen comes up and says:

    !!! WARNING !!!
    Large shifts in the scale of a model is not recommended.
    Scaling a model down can quickly cause it to be too fragile and unprintable.
    Scaling a model up can quickly cause a model to seem 'lo-res' and not properly detailed. (not to mention be exceedingly expensive.)

    Show several photo examples of different models printed at various sizes, with their corresponding costs, and highlight a few labeled close ups demonstrating the pitfalls.

    Then The Purchasee could drag a slider, or set a number for the scale they want , and hit Order

    Then a bigger RED BOX would come up saying:
    Are you sure you want to scale this object?
    We are warning you.
    Don't blame The Designer, or Shapeways if what you get is not what you were hoping for.
    Better yet, click here to contact The Designer and have them customize their model exactly to your desires...

    or click here to go your own way...


    Now everyone feels more empowered.
    * Purchasers get to think, "Wow with this cool futuretech I can custom personalize this dohicky to be just how I want it."
    * Designers get to sell their designs to a wider audience without having to anticipate every desire, and spend cumbersome amounts of time allowing for every possibility. Also The Designers get to more rapidly experiment with their creations and optimism them, and make more mobetta products and the beat goes on...
    * Shapeways gets to sell more products to more people, at minimal overhead to their infrastructure.
    * For the few of those people who are not happy with their product, they cant say we didn't warn them.

    also The Designer could chose not to allow scaling on a per model basis.

    Everyone wins?
  10. DaedalusYoung
    DaedalusYoung New Member
    Hi. Sorry, old thread, I know, but it must be said.

    I'm not so much thinking about customer scaling, but I'm thinking a bit more practical. I've been playing a bit with importing models, but I was initially quite stunned as to why some simple bits of plastic I thought I had modelled would cost 1100 dollars, if I would actually buy it. The reason: the model was WAY too big. I had set Blender up so that 1 BU = 1 cm, but on uploading a x3d file, SW did not give me the option to choose the proper unit to use. As a result, it defaulted to the horrid measurement called inches, and so of course, everything was 2.54 times too large.

    I did not understand! I had watched a video tutorial someone made and for them, SW gave them the option to use a metric scale, why didn't I get the option? Also, why was there no option to change the scale?

    Turns out, I can only get the size I want if I zip up my files. But then, there's no option to choose centimetres; only mm or meters. Neither of these are nice to work with in Blender, I prefer to use cm.

    So the process is as follows: model something, scale it up 10 times, export to x3d, zip the x3d, upload to SW and choose mm for scale.

    When the process should be: model something, export to x3d, upload to SW and choose cm for scale.

    Or: model something, export to x3d, upload to SW, change scale to cm.

    [edit] If you're wondering, of course in the correct scale, the 1100 dollar model was still too expensive. Seems I underestimated the manufacturing cost. Too bad, it was a really nice design.
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  11. OBjuan
    OBjuan New Member
    Yes well, that process sound lots better than just being able to scale the model at time of print.