Recent Forum Feedback...

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by gregorykress, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    It's damn near impossible to hide the algorithms completely. There's always going to be someone who reverse engineers them if they are motivated to do so. Even if you only get to within a few percent that would be sufficient. Not that I seriously care about pricing unless it affects my personal purchases; which are small enough to shop around and still generally cheaper here in most cases. I feel bad for people with large product offerings that have published catalogs with prices and need to be competitive in their niche areas. Having their production prices zig-zag up and down multiple times during a year would be a real bummer.
  2. Andrusi
    Andrusi Member
    This, please! Most of the items in my shop are both very small and very specific, so I'm having to very quickly do a lot of very carefully considered sprueing in order to avoid both "Andrusi is charging $5.25 for 73 cents worth of plastic" and "Andrusi is charging $7.50 for a bunch of useless crap with 73 cents worth of plastic I actually want mixed in." Being able to tell whether a $5 item is "really" $2.13 or $4.99 would relieve a lot of the associated frustrating trial and error.
    TrentTroop likes this.
  3. avim
    avim Shapeways Employee Product Team
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    Rick_D_Ryo and Adela like this.
  4. lawrencekramer2014
    lawrencekramer2014 Well-Known Member
    I am using Blender with 3D printing add-on. I always relied on Shapeways for the info from their point of view. Especially since it is important to check if shapeways is interpreting my models as I think they are (hollow vs solid, etc.).
    I am retired, and this is a labor of love, no sales yet. I've just been ordering my own models to give as gifts.
  5. TrentTroop
    TrentTroop Well-Known Member
    Can we at least get a notification of what the price would have been before minimum parts costs if we're under it? Andrusi and I made similar items for similar audiences, and we're both looking to make sure we give our customers the best value we can. While the general formula would be ideal, just knowing roughly how far we are from the minimum would be the most important element in my book.
    Andrusi likes this.
  6. fordmiester
    fordmiester Member
    I'm just a simple consumer, that makes a few purchases a year on SW. I'm not a 3D expert. This tech talk stuff is over my head. However, as a consumer of SW, I have already discovered a store owner and designer thinning down a massive inventory of products and may get out altogether due to the changes you guys speak of. One little consumer, me, just SOL! Just my little insignificant "bitch-fest". These changes are not working for this consumer, at all.
  7. avim
    avim Shapeways Employee Product Team
    Thanks for the feedback @TrentTroop. Our biggest near-term tech priorities in this project are:
    • identifying whatever is causing pricing inconsistencies and fixing them
    • giving sellers a simple option to update their products in bulk
    • giving sellers a way to compare the before and after prices to better plan for the coming changes.
    I'll add your suggestion to the general requests list we are tracking, in case this is something we can provide after tackling those priorities.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  8. javelin98
    javelin98 Well-Known Member
    Even without a specific pricing algorithm, I would be happy with some explanation of the variables affecting price. So, if XY-axis cost is x, Z-axis height is roughly 1.5x, and machine space is roughly .7x, that would be sufficient for me to optimize my models to be as competitive as possible on the market while still meeting Shapeways' needs to optimize print-bed space.
  9. Indycals
    Indycals Member
    What sucks is that many of our models were designed with older algorithms in mind and you keep moving the goal posts on us. Be careful how you tread Shapeways - you could lose a ton of business from us. I've already started experimenting with competitive service - a file that would have cost me over $100 to print in 14k gold plated metal cost me $29 at competitive service.
    Sparkshot likes this.
  10. Indycals
    Indycals Member
    Interesting that sculpt T oh reverts to 'competitive service'
    Sparkshot likes this.
  11. Rick_D_Ryo
    Rick_D_Ryo Active Member
    Hello and happy new year,
    Any news on these points? Since we're less than a month away, at least having the second point to analyse impacts on our nearly 600 models would be really welcome.
    chanusa likes this.
  12. avim
    avim Shapeways Employee Product Team
    Happy new year! We are close. The engineering team has a build that is currently ready for testing and final tweaks. I don’t have an exact eta yet but will share once we are ready to deploy.
    Rick_D_Ryo likes this.
  13. Rick_D_Ryo
    Rick_D_Ryo Active Member
    Thanks, that's good to know.
    Do not hesitate to reach out if you need "end user tests".
  14. Indycals
    Indycals Member
    How about not un-grandfathering the pricing until these things are addressed and we have a chance to figure them out.
  15. avim
    avim Shapeways Employee Product Team
    • Testing has been going well, so we will be pushing a release that includes a temporary tool to download a spreadsheet with your impacted items listing their grandfathered pricing and new pricing side by side on Tuesday, January 15th.
    • Only the products (with materials) that are currently listed for sale and have grandfathered status will show up in this spreadsheet.
    • This should give sellers a bit more than two weeks to understand the personal impact to their store and plan how to implement markup changes via the (separate) pricing csv wizard located in your shop settings. We know that more time is always welcome, but hopefully this is enough time for the vast majority of our users impacted by this pricing change.
    • You will have time to flag critical issues for a special customer support email by sending us a spreadsheet highlighting the issues) and we will investigate and where possible, maintain your grandfathered pricing on that model until that issue is resolved. I will provide more details on this when we push this change live on 1/15.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    buckethead and rolsen01 like this.
  16. Andrusi
    Andrusi Member
    If this tool reveals issues that are better addressed with a model change than a markup tweak, two weeks is not enough time for test prints.
  17. rolsen01
    rolsen01 Well-Known Member
    Im just planning to remove all parts that do not meet the minimum pricing threshold (about 400 or so).
  18. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    I don't think it's going to make much sense to order products from my own shop for personal use. In many cases it will likely be cheaper to sprue multiple products together into one model and order that instead, at least for versatile plastic options, but I'd need to generate the alternatives and then decide which way is better. The same approach will probably apply to other vendors as well.
  19. RayP1949
    RayP1949 Member
    I have been unable to contact the service team at Shapeways to discuss two items that were recently rejected.

    One for a thin wall issue that was actually an embossing (this model and a number of similar models had been printed previously). This was in Versatile Plastic (old WSF).

    The second was a variation of a successfully printed model and this time it was thin wires that I consider a small wall. This was in Smooth Fine Detail Plastic (old FUD).

    Now I replied to both of the rejection emails, one to the old format email and the second to the new format rejection email. Neither generated the usual automated reply email within 24 hours and nothing but silence since.
    The new rejection email gives the following options for a response:

    We want to provide the following options for you to help us get this model printed.

    • LET US FIX IT - we have an in house team that can review and make updates on your model based on the issues above. Please note this may take a few days to update depending on current volume and the complexity of the design.
    • I’LL UPDATE IT - if you want to fix it on your own and upload the new file, you can do so when the new file is ready - you have 7 days to update this before the file will be automatically cancelled.
    • CANCEL - Do you want to think about it or don’t have time to wait? No problem! Simply take no action, and your model will be canceled in 7 days. If you would like to cancel sooner, please reach out to our Customer Service team, and we can issue you a refund in a few business days.
      -- CLICK HERE to Contact Customer Service to CANCEL --
    These is this as well which is the option I chose that resulted in no responses at all:

    Have more questions? Send our service team an email - or just reply to this email.

    So regardless of the last option, it seems the old way of talking to someone at Shapeways by email has been curtailed, not very customer friendly!
  20. FerretDesigns
    FerretDesigns Well-Known Member
    I'm horrified still that some of my pieces are going from £7 in steel up to minimum £13.45. That is an extreme increase and likely to push me totally out of the steel market on my Etsy store.
    My most popular piece is effectively doubling in price.
    MiniMondoMayhem likes this.