Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 7943_deleted, Feb 26, 2014.

  1. I had a color part made with print it anyways. It was very good quality and printed fine.

    Then i scaled the part out and let it print again (also with print it anyway)


    Now the part comes with without color. Useless for me because i need all the parts in the same color...


    You should change your behavior that you INFORM the customer before you change the color of the product

    "PRINT IT ANYWAY" should not allow you to do what you want without inform the customer for such important changes.
    I'm aware that the weakest part may brake with print it anyways, but not that you change the color freely.


    In the early time of shapeways there was more communication. This communications i miss now....

    Andy
     
  2. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    Well, have you tried to communicate, i.e. emailed service@shapeways.com about the apparent misprint ? Obviously rescaling shoukd not change the color (assuming that it did not open any gaps in your model that threw off the texturing), so if it looked correct in the previews they will probably do a reprint. (Could be a malfunction of the inkjet printhead, or insufficient removal of loose gypsum powder - hard to tell without a picture. PIA certainly does not mean that they will blame the customer for mishaps that are not caused by a faulty model)
    BTW you might want to create your own thread for this, instead of reviving a year-old general discussion
     
  3. MitchellJetten
    MitchellJetten Shapeways Employee CS Team
    Looking at your history, the models have all been ordered in either Pink or Purple Strong & Flexible.
    If I'm correct, you're saying that your recent order arrived in white?

    If so, please do reach out to Customer Service with a picture of the model you've received!
    We will make sure that we'll fix this for you :)
     
  4. Thank's


    Correct in white and not in pink.....
    I have sent a picture, but the customer service told me:

    "The way in which an item is color is by dyeing the item after it has been printed. All items begin as white and then a nylon dye is used.

    When print it anyway is selected, there is an inherent risk that the piece may not be as ordered. In this case there was a need to not dye the item or it would break further"

    it is realy strange because the order before it has worked in pink....


    No offer to reprint or refund.

    Andy
     

    Attached Files:

  5. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    So is that white print damaged in any way ? It is not obvious from the photo (much less so without knowing what it should look like). Stability will probably vary somewhat with print orientation, so it could be that the part sometimes survives the polishing tumbler and sometimes not, and I would understand that shapeways does not feel obliged to then put the bits and pieces through the dye bath.
     
  6. No it is not damaged in any ways. I had to make a connector between the parts that is broken, but this is fine.

    color is also important, they could ask me if they should try to dye bath or not if they are not sure....

    Anyways. I will see the further response from them

    Andy
     
  7. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    Ah, I see. They will probably not make a distinction between a broken "useful" item and a broken sprue that just holds two parts together. (Suddenly more parts to handle individually, in the general case the things that detached from the sprue may even be too small to handle)
     
  8. Hi

    After a few disscusion i conclude that "print it anyway" is completely a spoof of the customer. It gives completey all rights to shapeways to do what they want. The can make evidently errors without consesequence.

    You must be avare that you give completely freedom to them to change color, to deliberatly destroy it without any conesquences.

    ( not that i say they do it everytime, but a unintentionally error has no consequences, so also a deliberatly destroy has also no consequences)..


    So this is not a high risk for customer, it is a very hugh risk for the customer. I can imagine that shapeways trries new products or new ways with "print it anyway" orders for free ot them (free of cost and no risk for shapeways.

    So again a big warning for every customer. You have no rights.......

    Andy
     
  9. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    "Print it anyway" is "I accept the risk that this part may break, send me the bits instead of a refund if this happens". Nothing more, nothing less. Processing stops at the point of failure if the failure makes further processing unfeasible (for economic reasons in your case - we could all get around the per-part handling fee by using frail sprues.) So, use this either if even a damaged part would likely fit your needs, or if you want to learn where your work in progress needs strengthening or other improvements.
    EDIT: you could easily buy some fabric dye to complete processing of your part - the "Post Production Techniques" forum will provide the necessary information about which brands to use and how to dye nylon parts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  10. 3dandthings
    3dandthings Active Member
    Shapeways definitely needs a better way to communicate with users. The print it now options does not do anything for me other than give me more problems every time I decide I want to order something. Too much redundancy going around. Costing time and money for both parties.
     
  11. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    Let's draw a distinction between "shopowner" and "patron".
    When you say "customer", which one are you talking about.

    Patrons - those people who might purchase from your shop, do not have the option for PrintItAnyway.
    Only Shopowners, purchasing their own designs have access to PIA.

    Shapeways does not use PIA as an excuse to destroy your model.
    They make every effort to produce your model faithfully, even if it fails.

    For example, if you select an item in Red WSF and you select PIA, that does not excuse them to print it in Yellow.
    If your item shows up in Yellow, you're well within your rights to ask for a reprint or refund, because that part of the process is controlled by them.

    If however something BREAKS on your model, or otherwise falls outside of the design guidelines, then no, they're not obligated to re-print.
     
  12. rkapuaala
    rkapuaala Well-Known Member
    I just want to make it clear. I like the Print It Anyway option,,, not just like, but I love it. I realize that when I use this option I run the risk of having a handfull of rubble shipped to me, but so far that has not happened.
    I have understood this since the option has been offered and I am willing to take the risk.
    [​IMG]
    This is the second print I made of this model using PIA.
    [​IMG]
    This is the first and even it wasn't a total waste.
     
  13. 3dandthings
    3dandthings Active Member
    If I am making for myself PIA is no big issue. However, when I am selling my work outside of Shapeways it becomes a big problem. Issues I am dealing with (and I am sure others are as well) for example is:
    1. Revolving user/customer service from Shapeways - response time is too long to resolve minor issues.
    2. Every time there is one minor issue, a project has to be pushed back 2 weeks. A LOT of these issues have to pass the PIA option. If they issue a refund and I have to reorder, that's ONE extra month minimum. I'm sure Shapeways is trying their best. PIA doesn't get products to my customers any faster. Actually seems to slow it down.
    3. I have an item that was successfully printed. Now it is renamed in my library as part of another set be made for my customer. But, it can't be printed because it needs the PIA again? How many times has someone had an item printed successfully in the past, and then Shapeways now says it can't be made? So you have to use the PIA button for the first time? Or second time?? Or the third time???

    Every issue I have goes through Shapeways protocol. I get it. PIA is part of this protocal. It helps me as a customer with Shapeways. But, it doesn't seem to be helping my customers.

    I will just leave it at this. Hoping for Shapeways to deliver and be the Best!
     
  14. cissell
    cissell Member
    I am finding this to be true... That they are free to compromise quality and divert responsibility for defects to the designer, even when the designer uploaded a good model. I have had dozens of models printed without the pia pilot, and the sls has changed in quality over time but has remained professional looking... for the price anyway. It is clear that they're trying to find a satisfying compromise between price, speed, and quality. I've had 3 models printed with the pia pilot. The first two were excellent. The most recent was a complete departure from the quality I have come to expect from shapeways, broken and inferior in a number of ways, and they didn't even send me a large, broken off piece.
    It arrived surprisingly fast although I did not choose the "rush" option. It was clearly printed on a different or mis-calibrated machine which made it significantly more brittle, without the "strong and flexible" aspect of "strong and flexible plastic" and had "flash" or extra material fused all over it, something I've never seen before in an sls print. Nothing to do with me not obeying design guidelines. They either made a mistake in calibrating the machine or deliberately used my order as a test subject for a faster, inferior process. But I doubt I will be offered a refund.
     
  15. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    Have you contacted service about this ? The brittleness appears to be a defect that plagues the NY plant in particular (if I understand a staff comment on the "shapeways decline" rant thread correctly), and any extra material fused to your model is clearly not something that would fall under the special rules for PIA either, so I would consider this a QA mistake on their end, nothing to do with PIA. (I find PIA very useful for one-off models that I know to be marginal and where I can live with some post-printing breakoff of surface details)
     
  16. cissell
    cissell Member
    i agree. I am waiting for a reply. I'm just hoping they admit this was a mistake that had nothing to do with my end.
     
  17. 3dandthings
    3dandthings Active Member
    Shapeways protocol is the problem. Not the actual idea of PIA. Don't send out garbage, when you (Shapeways) know it is GARBAGE... And then take to protocol saying, "Have you contacted service about..." You get the same thing/answer over and over.

    When done right, Shapeways is awesome. But, I am also getting garbage lately as well.
     
  18. Andrewsimonthomas
    Andrewsimonthomas Well-Known Member
    cissell: Thanks for flagging the brittle part, we'll track that and see if its the result. I see that Christel responded to you last week, so I'll leave you in her able hands to get the investigation going.



    3dandthings: The concept behind PIA is that it lets you tell us that you want to waive any quality checks in our process. This includes pre-checking and post-checking.

    Beyond this our process is to ship you complete, consistent parts. If something goes wrong and this doesn't happen, its important that you let us know at Service@ so we can make an official complaint and track this data to make improvements.
     
  19. cissell
    cissell Member
    Actually the f.a.q. page of the PIA pilot says the quality will not change and "your product will go through the same steps that all regular orders go through and be handled with the same care."

    It is made to seem like the only variable that can change things is our design if you want to push the limits of the material. And to innovate and understand our designs. Now if the machines occasionally spit out garbage that would have been caught by post-checking in QC, it certainly does not help the designer to understand the material or their designs by sending these out. All they are understanding is that "these machines sometimes spit out misprints and now I've lost my money."

    I don't think shapewayis trying to scam anyone, After all they're not going to make any money if they anger all of their regular customers. But I do think the quality control needs to be updated to ensure that they remain true to what the pilot is actually about. If it was a "Send me anything " pilot then you could indeed forgo all pre-checking and post checking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  20. FabMeJewelry
    FabMeJewelry Member
    I don't use PIA as a necessary part of my design process, I thought it was intented to be used for prints that you really need to get no matter what state you'll get them in ? So I've used it on a few pieces for a photoshoot to make sure I'd receive the parts in time, if they needed to be manually fixed or edited in photoshop so be it but I needed the parts :)