Pricing Changes

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by gregorykress, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. ChristianH
    ChristianH Well-Known Member
    Read the comment 2 posts above mine.

    SW management seems to be below deck drilling holes in the hull. Kind of like the final hours of Bismarck
     
    MikeyBugs95, tengel and chromedome53 like this.
  2. rolsen01
    rolsen01 Active Member
    SHAPEWAYS STAFF/CEO.. HERE IS THE BEST POST SO FAR.. PLEASE READ
     
  3. taz_of_boyds
    taz_of_boyds Active Member
    The Print Success Rate

    Mitchell,

    I finally came across an indication on the site related to what I am saying for printed-successfully-credit. Here are the captured images:

    upload_2018-11-6_13-20-20.png
    https://www.shapeways.com/getting-started/product-development
    upload_2018-11-6_13-21-53.png
    https://www.shapeways.com/blog/arch...in-the-3d-printing-manufacturing-process.html

    What I am suggesting should make the process work better for Shapeways and designers. And take a bite out of the Rejectorama Lottery, which is no way to treat a friend.

    All the best,
    Charles W. Sloane
     
  4. reducedAircraftFactory
    reducedAircraftFactory Well-Known Member
    Remember, the common wisdom around Shapeways is that,"The vast majority of our customers upload and buy 3D prints for themselves." In their eyes, designers (shopowners) and "pure customers" (those just buying others' designs) are a small percentage of their business, and it's not worth a lot of effort to optimize the marketplace or keep shopowners happy.

    Now, I think Shapeways is underestimating their impact (e.g. designers buying a test print, self-buying to resell on Etsy, etc.). I also think the shops and marketplace are Shapeways' biggest advantages over their competitors.

    But if Shapeways drives their business purely by the metrics, you can see why things are going their current direction.
     
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  5. rolsen01
    rolsen01 Active Member
    They'll see how their plan worked out on Jan 1st. I have 1550 items in my store.. Jan 1 there will be zero.
     
  6. southernnscale
    southernnscale Well-Known Member
    Being in the US their dollar price has gone up and even the shipping rates have also! $2.00 more. So their prices have went up to! They started giving out discounts when I first started doing projects but haven't seen any in a while. I do only train model stuff! I feel the 1st of the New year will be the big show stopper!!
     
  7. MartilloYCola
    MartilloYCola Member
    prices hiking are also hurt me, as I cannot afford to get some prototypes done (I need to test them before upload them to my shop) and I am also concerned of how it will affect my clientele. They sure saw the prices going up too and I believe they will buy less, in general not only from me.
     
  8. Rick_D_Ryo
    Rick_D_Ryo Active Member
    This ^^
     
    tengel likes this.
  9. GrumpyAlison
    GrumpyAlison Well-Known Member
    This though. I sell $1000-$2000/year of SW stuff on etsy (because that's the only place people find my stuff) and I can't be the only person that's operating under that business model (of ordering their own stuff on behalf of others).

    Also, if the wisdom is that it's the customers buying their own models, how long down SW thing it will take for those with modelling skill to branch out and realize that, by the time they've bought 10 prints from SW it'd literally be cheaper to get their own printers and make their own models for pennies on the dollar. Just another thought...
     
  10. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    The delta prices for dyed SFVP plastics coming in at an extra $2.50 or $3.50 are also a hard hit. It's especially bad for smaller items that also get impacted by the $5 minimum cost. It's beginning to make more sense to only purchase basic white nylon prints and colorize them using a $2 fabric or other permanent marker; especially for small prints.

    Sadly it appears that the cost curve can't be bent downwards yet in this industry. There's too much human touch time and too much overhead that burdens the costs of production. I suppose that eventually the only ways to address this will be with more advanced machines that can automate the post production functions - cleaning/depowdering, vision systems for print quality screening, sorting, bagging, and final packing (and also locating the machines is a cheap warehouse in the middle of Indiana near a corrugated box plant and a shipping access point). Perhaps functions like dyeing could also be automated. Likely such advances will fall to the 3D printer manufacturers. It's far beyond the ability of print foundries like SW to work in those areas. That means rising costs for all 3D print foundry services for the foreseeable future unless there are some other breakthroughs that enable vastly cheaper production. The future has not yet arrived.
     
  11. Sparkshot
    Sparkshot Well-Known Member
    Like GrumpyAlison said, if you are buying often then the investment on your own 3D printer buys itself eventually with all the money you would have spent buying your own prints. Strange really, but there you go.

    This Photon DLP is great. I'm having some issues with warping and unwanted marks on the surface but aside from those thijgs that can usually be ironed out with settings things are looking promising.

    [​IMG]

    Diagonal line and small hole in the above pic plus I cracked the bottom.

    However the other side after some primer...

    [​IMG]

    That has had ZERO smoothing applied.

    It was took off the build plate, alcohol rinsed, UV cured, dried then blased with spray primer.

    Apart from the issues already mentioned that need to be honed I'm uber impressed. Print is 50um, printer can go down to 10.
     
  12. CybranKNight
    CybranKNight Well-Known Member
    Yeah, I've been getting good results with mine as well.

    [​IMG]

    And this guy was just the first test for this model using the clear green resin, I'm hoping that switching to an opaque resin will give even better definition.
     
  13. c_georgadidis
    c_georgadidis Member
    I only found out now about the price hike by trying to reorder items some HO model railway items and discovering prices up + 100%. No communication, no warning. Totally unacceptable and if situation is not reverted I would be looking into alternatives .
     
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  14. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
  15. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
  16. MikeyBugs95
    MikeyBugs95 Well-Known Member
    I completely agree. You've said it first but you and I both have said very similar things. I've posted this twice before but, to make sure it's seen, I'll post it here too.

    We designers are not simply pawns in your (Shapeways') strategic business plan. We are customers of your service and must be treated as such. By removing, changing, hiding, or otherwise making tools once accessible to us inaccessible, ignoring our inputs, and making other quiet changes (the absurd price hike) without considering how it would also affect our businesses as well, you are demonstrating a complete disregard for your most important customer - the designers who use your service to sell their products. In a service-oriented business, customer satisfaction is everything. You are signaling to us, the customers, that you are ready and more than willing to transition from an exciting, customer-centric company to a backwards customer-hostile company. Without the designers using your service, you have no end customers to make a profit from. We, the designers, want you, Shapeways, to be a successful and viable company for the future. What we do not want is to be treated as throwaway commodities whose thoughts, experience, and voices don't matter. We want to have our input taken seriously. We want to be readily informed of significant changes that will have an impact on our business and have a system for us to provide input and suggestions on the impending changes. We want to know how the pricing system works (yes, please restore the pricing structure). We want to be considered an indispensable part of the Shapeways family.

    We designers are your most important customers - Without the designers, there is no Shapeways.

    Shapeways, if you commit to continuing down the path you have just turned on to, there is no turning back. A company's reputation and public image is essential and very fragile. You may have made some mistakes in the past but none as potentially damaging as you have now. The recent customer-hostile decisions made will cost you significant revenue if you do not provide fixes in very short order. Providing a complete pricing structure, being more transparent about upcoming updates, and listening to your customer base are but a few of the many ways that you can fix this situation that you've gotten yourself into. If you stubbornly refuse to do so, designers will stop using your service. Without any designers, you will not have any customers. There is time to rectify this situation but past January 1st, 2019, time will be very limited to turn around and maintain a good, customer-value oriented image.


    Shapeways techs and owners, you may or may not realize it but you are a service-type business. That means that everything you do, say, 'produce' and change must be customer-centric. Customer satisfaction is of the utmost importance to a service business. In this case, your customers are first and foremost the designers. You cater to them before the end-use customers. The end-use customers are catered to by the designers first and you second. As soon as you ignore them, like you have now, you're well past digging your own company's grave. As soon as you ignore your primary customers, you're about ready to lower your own casket down. If you do not do something to rectify this situation as soon as possible, Shapeways will be dead.

    There are already designers who have said that come January 1st, 2019, they are out the door. If you don't want to end up on the trash heap of bad business decision history, rectify this situation. Fix what you have started. Demonstrate to all of your customers and designers that you are a customer-centric company. Demonstrate that you care about your designers more than you care about being like the next company. Let the next company shoot themselves in the foot over and over again - DON'T be like that company!
    DON'T be the company that was once known for being innovative in the 3D printing sphere until they lost touch with their customer base!
    DON'T fall into that trap of thinking that you know best!
    DON'T fall into the trap of not communicating with your base!
    DON'T fall into the trap of not listening to your primary customer!

    Shapeways, we ALL want you to succeed. We are trying to warn you. We need you to listen to us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018 at 2:02 AM
  17. edksummers
    edksummers Shapeways Employee Product Team
    Today we released a change to provide more accurate pricing for Fine Detail Plastics. This change will put our current pricing more in line with how we have historically priced this material. Other aspects of recent changes, such as minimum prices, will remain the same.

    Even accounting for changes such as minimums, we expect around 90% of models to differ by less than $10 from their historical pricing. Most models that saw large increases since October 26 should see their prices decrease.

    We hope this addresses some of the recent concerns about changes for Fine Detail Plastics.
     
    adbinc likes this.
  18. railNscale
    railNscale Well-Known Member
    The moves SW made lately suggest that we are all wrong here, and that the designers/shopowners just costs SW tons of money.

    Strangely enough Shapeways still adverts with the following:
    "Trusted by entrepreneurs around the world." --> Question, what is an entrepreneur by SW's definition? A designer, a shopowner, a one time consumer?

    "6,000+ Products manufactured and shipped everyday" --> That sounds nice. But...

    "45,000+ Stores run their businesses with Shapeways"
    --> So the average sales per store is only one product every 7.5 days (or 0.13 products/day)?

    Of course every shopm is different, but I assume the most active people on this forum run a store that sells just a little bit more than 0.13 products a day. Maybe 10 times more, maybe 100 times more than this average. Still these sales of all these active shop owners may be relatively small. But I don't understand why on earth SW is desperately trying to annoy these bigger shops by hiding market places, raising prices and severely hampering the website. It really is a pain in the *ss.

    In the normal world loyal customers are the most important thing you can have as a business. The ones that act as ambassadors (like many shop owners here) are the most important ones as they are making a lot of advertisements and inspiring other potential customers.

    It appears to me SW is not at all looking at their loyal customer base or their ambassadors, but are looking for new customers that just buy one item and than move along. It is unclear how you can attract new customers with a UI that is not intuitive and with this little pricing information....
     
  19. railNscale
    railNscale Well-Known Member
    "Today we released a change to provide more accurate pricing for Fine Detail Plastics. This change will put our current pricing more in line with how we have historically priced this material. Other aspects of recent changes, such as minimum prices, will remain the same.

    Even accounting for changes such as minimums, we expect around 90% of models to differ by less than $10 from their historical pricing. Most models that saw large increases since October 26 should see their prices decrease.

    We hope this addresses some of the recent concerns about changes for Fine Detail Plastics."

    Please do your maths first before claiming this "we expect around 90% of models to differ by less than $10 from their historical pricing".
    Just checked one model and it still costs $ 30.00 dollars instead of $ 8.67 ! This is a reference model that is a pretty strong indicator of what all our prices will become next year!

    It is unacceptable that SW is telling blunt lies.

    We were promised a list showing the old vs new prices of our complete shop inventory.

    Still, we didn't receive anything.

    I dare you to show this list in public and show to everyone that your claim is absolutely false.
     
  20. adbinc
    adbinc Well-Known Member
    On behalf of our customers, any price drop in the smooth fine plastics is appreciated. For ships larger than the minimum size, a 20% increase is better than 80%, though still a far cry from the 5% the CEO originally suggested.

    If I might suggest from a marketing perspective, it is far better to be honest about a large price increase and then be able to tell us that you found a way to trim those back than it is to dramatically underestimate that increase (which upset your customers when it was implemented) and then tell us you fixed a mistake. Your upset customers are quite likely to point out the increase is still well above what was suggested.

    Don't get me wrong. I totally understand that you need a minimum per item. Those items' prices I knew would take a hit. I understand that for whatever reason, you needed to raise prices 5%. But when the increase is much higher than 5% and substantially a higher percentage than what normal people see in wages or inflation in items bought every day, then it isn't surprising there is a push back from those normal people.

    With respect,

    Jean