Model Rail Coach... again...

Discussion in '3D Design Requests' started by mattwicksbluebell, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    Hello again...

    Posted along time ago about some coaches i was hoping to 3D print, which sadly after 8 months I still haven't go to due to a number of issues.

    Ive managed to get the chassis uploaded no problems, so they are about ready, but was hoping to put one coach in complete to see how it would come out fit together ect...

    I have since the first time, re-drawn the model 3 times to try and improve it as when uploading the repair system on the website used to take a number of parts away which were mainly details. Having fixed the sides... I now have large parts of the model disappearing.

    I have been receiving help on these as well but he is a bit at a loss, and not sure why its doing what its doing when its uploaded as he believes its ok, its been put through Netfabb... several times, but always having the same end result.

    So Im not sure if its an original design issue, a face / mesh issue...
    It was original designed on Sketchup... as I don't really understand any other 3D design program, as they are a little complex for my small brain.
    These are then re-scaled and checked on NetFabb.

    The worry i have is I have 2 other coaches on the same base shell so i can probably see more problems on the horizon... so need to know what is causing it.

    I have attached the STL scaled file, if needs be I can upload the original SKP file which is bigger, or even the coach shell it is designed on.

    Attached Files:

    INNERLEAF Well-Known Member
    PM Sent
  3. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    Sorry I have no money so that's not of interest to me i'm afraid, with the research and information I have undertaken, It wouldn't be a good move for someone else to undertake making them for me, as a person would need to know the coaches, which are Metropolitan, Chesham set coaches, built by Ashbury and Cravens.
  4. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    This attachment is the Coach as a sketchup File, which is larger than the STL.

    Attached Files:

  5. Keymaker
    Keymaker Well-Known Member
    I looked at your .stl file and realize that it has so many issues, probably created in sketchup, that it would take more than an hour to fix it manually.
  6. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    Yep i kinda guessed if i'm honest. Thanks anyway.
  7. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    I am by NO means any kind of Sketchup expert, but in Sketchup, I seletcted all items, then converted them to a component before I exported it as a STL.

    That still left TONS of problems, but it gave me enough that I could go thru with Netfabb Basic and clean it up.

    You will have to load this into Netfabb Basic and fix the size using the 'Scale' command.. I messed up the scale coming out of Sketchup.
    Be careful that you don't shrink it too much.. the walls will become too thin.

    In Sketchup, you net to be sure that all the peices are fully closed meshes, and I would suggest that you work thru your model and make sure that no two peices are duplicated (identical mesh sitting on top of itself)

    You're doing some superb detailed work here... I would recommend that you take the time to learn Blender or some other tool.. you've got a lot of potential here for some really impressive products.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  8. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    Thanks Stonysmith sadly many parts are missing so sadly can't really use it, thanks anyway.

    Blender I have looked at, Sadly I don't know where to start, again again due to money I can't go on a course for it... did look in to it but yeah out of reach. I have ideas but sadly looks like they will have to stay ideas.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
    JACANT Well-Known Member
    I hope this will point you in the right direction.
    I have separated the parts into layers. Get into the habit of using layers, use the colour by layer as well. This way you can make visible the layers you want to work on, and you can see them better. When you have created a component it becomes a solid object, you can boolean components together to create another solid , which will delete all of the extra internal lines you do not want. You can also use the command 'Intersect faces' with object or selection, depending on what you are doing. i.e.If you wanted to connect the 'Vent' to the end wall. Pick the Vent then the end wall and use the command. It will intersect them but leave any internal lines and faces, which you can then delete any extra lines or faces that are not wanted. What you are after is one complete shell with no internal lines or faces.
    As you can see I have moved some of the faces that are causing problems to the 'NOT WANTED' layer, there are many more; these faces and any extra lines need to be deleted. Don't forget each time you draw any extra lines on faces a face will be created on top of the original face which confuses Shapeways software into not knowing what is pointing in or out. So delete any extra lines that are not wanted, if by so doing a face is deleted just do an undo or redraw the deleted line. When you put the model into Nettabb the yellow lines are holes, the software will fill these holes; not always what you want. Just use it as a reference to see where the problems are, go back to Sketchup and try to find out what the problem is, an extra line or face maybe all that is causing the problem. When you make visible all of the layers, you will still need to Boolean join them together either separately or by using the 'Outer Shell' command which will join solids together and delete any touching faces not wanted.

    Attached Files:

  10. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    I see, sounds great... I just wish I knew what it all meant... to actually put it in to practice.
  11. DATAjammer
    DATAjammer New Member

    What scale are you looking at producing these models in?

    I am currently working on a number of different models (none of them Bluebell Railway related unfortunately) in N-Gauge using SketchUp and I have found it easier to create the model in scale size first (walls, roof and end parts) to ensure they comply with Shapeways wall thickness rules, then scale it up to 1:1 to add detail, then scale it back down again within SketchUp.

    Once scaled down again, check the thickness of any window pillars and such to make sure they are still within Shapeways tolerances, then export as a Collada DAE file.

    I confess I have not downloaded and looked at your files but depending on the scale you are ultimately printing these at, sometimes less detail is actually more. Picking out the parts that are visible at the smaller scale and modelling them is usually more effective than trying to get every last detail into the model.

    Hope this helps.

    Regards, Tony
    INNERLEAF Well-Known Member
    HI Tony,
    You can get a direct STL export for Sketchup for free rather than use collada. Its a much cleaner way to export.
  13. DATAjammer
    DATAjammer New Member
    I use the direct export to STL, but I generally have not had a problem with using the collada export either in the past.

    For the issues that Matt is experiencing though, I don't think that either export (Collada or STL) will fix the problems that he is having.
  14. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member

    Yes originally i had drawn them to scale but sketchup sadly didn't take kindly to it. Its in 4mm scale OO. But due to limitations on Sketchup is been drawn at 3x size.

    It generally is a design issue, i have had some pointers to resolving the problem sadly when i touch it generally it doesn't go how i expect it.

    I'll attempt one last time and completely rebuild the ends which is where the issue lies.
    If that doesn't work then i'll bin the idea, even if that means letting down around 40 interested people, as i don't have the knowledge to even fix or rebuild them.

    Shame but 8 months of work doesn't help when you dont really kmow what your doing.
  15. DATAjammer
    DATAjammer New Member
    Matt, PM Sent.
  16. mattwicksbluebell
    mattwicksbluebell New Member
    I would like to say some thank you to all of your for your guidence, I managed to get the body off last week to Shapeways for printing, and famous last words apparently its ok to print... or was on Friday.
    I did put in 4 other items to build a complete coach... sadly they weren't able to printed, but apparently with some small changes they will... again I just wish I knew what they were talking about... but least the body is printable just a shame about the rest of it... back to the drawing board.
  17. Stefan_Portisch
    Stefan_Portisch New Member
    Matt, just sent you a PM.