inverted normals poser

Discussion in 'Software and Applications' started by galladur, May 7, 2009.

  1. galladur
    galladur New Member
    Hello !

    I try without success to updoal a model made with poser.

    A man, classic, basic...but it always tell me about inverted normals i can't find.

    I tryed to export directly from poser in vrml, no success.
    then i tryed to export in 3DS to verify normals in 3DSmax..ntohing seems to be anormal... i export in STL... and i still have the inverted normals problem !

    I dont see how to resolve my problem :confused

    here is the file in str

    Attached Files:

    • man.STL

      File size:
      2.5 MB
  2. galladur
    galladur New Member
    ps : I've also tried to :
    - flip normals
    - unify normals
    (with 3DSmax)

    and even to :
    - create new character by making a huge cube and then make an intersection with original one...

    please.... helllp :(
  3. failrate
    failrate New Member
    I've been having this same problem with Blender, exporting to x3d. So, I don't have any advice, but you're definitely not alone.
  4. WiKKiDWidgets
    WiKKiDWidgets New Member
    Blender has several options for you to correct the orientation of normals. Before you proceed, make sure that your model is manifold and that there are not any duplicate vertices. As both of these can confuse CAD/CAM software.

    Fixing Normals:

    Go into Edit mode {tab}, then, on the bottom menu bar, look for the button called {Mesh}. Click it and go up to {Normals} then over to {Recalculate Outside} or just {CTRL+N}. Additionally, if you have already 'Walled' your model. (In other words, it has an inside surface as well as an outside surface.) You can select the inner mesh and perform the same function, except Recalculate it as the inside. In most instances this will fix issues with normals.


    If that doesn't work, Blender has another trick up its sleeve for you to fix Normals. Blender can also calculate an entire surface area based on the angles of adjacent Faces. This can be a bit tricky until you have done it a few times.

    In edit mode ({tab} If you are not already there). Change to Face Select mode By hitting in sequence {Ctrl+Tab+3}. In this mode, you will select parts of the model based on Faces instead of Vertices. You want to select a face that you consider the outside wall of your model. Then hit the following keys in sequence. {Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F} This will prompt you to provide the minimum angle that Blender will calculate to be part of one contiguous surface area. Leave the default setting of 135 and click the {OK} button. If the outside of your model has sharp edges, you may have to perform this several times until you have the entire 'Outside' of your model selected. (Just select another part of the model with {Shift+RIGHTClick} and repeat the above steps.) Once you have it all selected you can recalulate the direction of the normals by hitting {Ctrl+N} Now, to fix the 'Inside', You can select the inverse of the current selection with {Ctrl+I}. Now that you have the 'Inside' surface of the model selected, you can recalculate the normals with the command {Ctrl+Shift+N}.

    If going through this doesn't work, you will have to take more drastic measures and start dissecting you model. That will be a REALLY detailed thread if needed. :D
  5. WiKKiDWidgets
    WiKKiDWidgets New Member

    I took at your model and you have several issues. First off, the reason you are getting the Inverted normals error is that your model has massive redundant vertices.

    Total vertex count: 158748
    Redundant Vetices: 131774
    Required for model: 26974

    Fix in Blender with {W} {Remove Doubles}

    Second, your model has multiple non-manifold areas. Each of the fingernails and toenails needs to be removed from the model. The back of the throat is not closed, and the eye sockets need to be filled. Please see the FAQ section under support for a understanding on manifold.

  6. galladur
    galladur New Member
    thanks for those informations....

    I've finaly got a good base_model to do my jobs, becasue i'm not too "pro" to make corrections on this model.

    Finaly i work with zbrush and make completely my models.

    I juste have some problems of inverted normals with subtools sometimes, and i always need to optimize my result to go under the fatal 500000 polygons limit !

    thanks for all
  7. WiKKiDWidgets
    WiKKiDWidgets New Member
    I understand mate. I haven't played with ZBrush since I beta tested it in its infancy. Back then it wasn't much. But it is an awesome tool these days. If you have the ability in ZBrush, I would make these suggestions to aide your Shapeways models.

    Remove the eyes, Teeth, Fingernails, Toenails, throat, etc.
    Allot of these details will be printed on the inside of the model where you cannot see them anyway. I.e.; You are paying for material that you cannot see.

    the area around the eyes and mouth are open, so they will be non-manifold. So they need to be closed.

    Best of luck mate!
  8. galladur
    galladur New Member
    For my Zbrush models and "unseen material", I made a "step" in 3DS (I need to do this anyway because of stl cannot be donne with my Zbrush version)
    Under 3DS I do boolean operations to substract material from inner the figurine.

    I dit what you told me (remove eyes, nails, etc) and I have make a "shapeways valid" human base model...that's great !

    for is a picture of what i have done for the moment : the minotaur & the treeman (productions a launched but i didn't received it yet... i'm nervous)

    Attached Files:

  9. WiKKiDWidgets
    WiKKiDWidgets New Member
    OK, thats almost spooky. I have been working on a Minotaur and Theseus scene too!


    Your Minotaur is far more beastly than mine, but my Theseus has got you beat! LOL


    I'm glad you got things working mate! Can't wait to see the printed version.