Introducing The Hp Printer! Sign Up For Early Access

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by Andrewsimonthomas, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. For my products, standard S&F is right on the price limit. It's barley profitable to sell most parts. Jack the price up a little, and nobody buys it. There's ZERO chance of me selling any HP S&F at that price!
     
  2. AGAH
    AGAH Member
    What a disappointment. I will not be ordering this material again. It is a slight improvement on WSF, but not enough to pay twice the price.
     
  3. Sparkshot
    Sparkshot Well-Known Member
    Oh, that buggeres that up. Was just thinking we would be on to a winner here. Guess I won't be able to release models in the material then with the price. Is up there with the FUDs.

    Sigh.
     
  4. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    Good news: HP is finally showing color prints with 500/300 series. PDF mentions models 580 & 380 for 8 agent and full color, 540 & 340 for 4 agent and just B&W, 5x0 has bigger bucket in one dimension.
    http://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/3d-printers/3dcolorprint.html
    http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/getpdf.aspx/4AA7-1970ENA.pdf

    Bad news: It's not SW's current model 4200 (along entry 3200 and "manufacturing targeted" 4210), neither externally looks similar. No color info provided, beyond what looks to be CMYKW (and wild guess of 317 DPI imposed by 0.08 mm layers, and 1200 DPI in XY if matching the grey printers). Examples look a bit pastel.

    Questions: Will HP replace full machines or provide conversions kits to testing companies? Will SW buy some of this new type (or even 4210 to pump more for less)? How much will color / B&W prints cost?
     
    JoyComplex and CTCordingley like this.
  5. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    Hmm. Not hearing this from shapeways first makes one wonder if they are still in the loop. On the other hand, their new pricing may make sense for a high-end full color material (certainly more than for the slightly more dense gray nylon it is now). Does anybody know the bearded guy from the brochure, is he a shapie or do the professionals all look like this :) ?
     
  6. reducedAircraftFactory
    reducedAircraftFactory Well-Known Member
    Given that Shapeways shows no sign of opening up the black and grey HP materials to customers (though it has been printing nicely for months), I am not going to hold my breath for color prints.
     
    czhunter likes this.
  7. xigfrid
    xigfrid Member
    I really wanted to believe that HP WSF would become the new WSF. There were a few things to fix around the print warping and plastic heat retraction but the fine details and surface were much improved.
    Now the bump in price is unbelievable for a material that was advertised as cheaper to produce than standard WSF. I hope the new CEO will have a closer look at HP materials princing
     
  8. reducedAircraftFactory
    reducedAircraftFactory Well-Known Member
    I'm not going to let this thread fade away. Please, Shapeways, your designers are ready to sell models in this new material, but you're not making it easy on us.
     
  9. tebee
    tebee Well-Known Member
    Yes, I was very interested in this material, but the new pricing makes it inviable for most of my models.
     
  10. Sparkshot
    Sparkshot Well-Known Member
    Any Shapeways employees listening???

    Scroll through this thread.

    You will see everyone (me included) is mightily disapointed because you basically doubled the price. It was around WSF price and testers concluded it was a little better than standard WSF but with FUD like tolerances.

    It sounded a winner to me but then on release day BOOM. Pay basically FUD price.

    As a result everyone is perfectly disapointed and disillusioned. Can't see anyone happy here. I know I'm also priced out so what's the crack?

    Just posting this because I would like to offer it as a material but I hardly make any FUD sales as it is due to the price, most are WSF and no one is going to pay FUD like prices for a WSF that is only 5-10% as a guess better.

    Posting this as a last ditch attempt to sway you. Not holding my breath though!
     
  11. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    Well, ...don't.
    I recently attended a Shapeways tour "All about Materials" in person at the Shapeways Eindhoven office.

    Of course, the subject of the HP material came up and they basically said: "We are sorry, but we have no clue when or how prices on the HP material will change".

    The overall impression I got is that they're still getting used to their new CEO and any true innovation/price reductions,
    will have to be made possible by more sales in the upcoming years. So yeah, breakthroughs and price reductions will probably take a backseat for the upcoming 2 - 3 years.
     
  12. patmat2350
    patmat2350 Well-Known Member
    Interesting... a certain competitor to SW (you-know-who-eo) now offers HP nylon at a LOWER cost than the standard SLS white nylon. They've not been able to beat SW prices in the past on my parts... but for the first time, they have an option that comes in below my cost here for WSF. Hmmm... SW, please explain!
     
  13. patmat2350
    patmat2350 Well-Known Member
    Hmm, OK... I tried another part, and this time *-eo was more expensive (as is usually the case)... must have been an oddity with the formulas (machine volume, part volume...). But still, they are offering their plain HP gray at a lower cost than their white SLS ...
     
  14. reducedAircraftFactory
    reducedAircraftFactory Well-Known Member
    Hey Shapeways! For the first time, I am considering opening up a shop on a competitor's website, driven solely by the cost and lack of general availability of the HP materials from Shapeways. If that doesn't set off some warning flags somewhere, you're not watching your business closely enough.
     
    Sparkshot likes this.
  15. xigfrid
    xigfrid Member
    Ho wait ... There is a amazing news in my email speaking of the marvelous HP plastic... I checked the cost of the one of my model in WSF and HP WSF ... HP is still twice the price.
    I have an account for many years at xxeo competitor, their interface and 3D checker is a lot less good as Shapeways' one but if HP plastic is way cheaper there, here I go.

    Cia Shapeways, you lost the race for HP material
     
    Sparkshot likes this.
  16. cinema
    cinema Member
    Shapeways MJF costs more than three times as much as at a competitor's site.
     
    IntelXeon likes this.
  17. Oliver_Krangle
    Oliver_Krangle Well-Known Member
    This was rather interesting. I turned a gray HP plastic pen blank on a lathe and under the gray surface is nice black plastic.

    turned HP plastic.jpg

    On the left is the original finish. To the right is a thick band cut with a parting tool but the tool was not sharp so the material underneath got messed up. The three narrow bands were cut with the corner of a sharp rectangular cutting tool. The middle section was cut using the flat side of the cutting tool as was the far right section although I cut deeper and at an angle over there. The far right section was also polished using polishing pads and liquid plastic polish but I didn't use any sandpaper first to get a smoother starting point. Anyway, done properly you should be able to get a super smooth surface.

    The revealed plastic feels a lot like a pen I once made using HDPE material from a plastic cutting board. The problem with HDPE is that it's impossible to glue it to the internal brass tube since the plastic so slippery and glue resistant. An advantage of the HP plastic is that the gray surface is porous enough to allow glues or epoxies to stick to it extremely well.
     
  18. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    ...but ultimately not worth it if everyone has to do such "postprocessing" to it.

    Might as well get a value pack of XTC 3D to spread out over many many strong flexible polished prints.
     
  19. Oliver_Krangle
    Oliver_Krangle Well-Known Member
    I didn't say everyone needs to post-process HP plastic to make a pen. It's just an option since probably not everyone knows that there's black material just under the surface. The surface of regular HP plastic is just fine for making a pen body but you can add highlights and other interesting features using machining techniques if you want to do so. The same would apply to other prints. For example you could engrave a pattern like a logo or initials into a gray print to create a dual color object.

    Quite frankly I haven't done much with HP plastic since it's so new and too expensive. On the other hand it's a nice material overall and the design rules are better for pen tubes (for now). If I were to coat a pen print I'd probably use spray on clear lacquer for surface protection which is cheap and easy.
     
  20. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    Yeah I understand, this material trait is optional to 'unlock' so to say - but I don't think it does much to advocate the use of this material at this time, certainly at this price point.

    But maybe it's just me.... whenever I see a 3D print of which the endresult or stylistic effect has been achieved by something extensive as postprocessing it with a hardware tool.....I find it kind of silly...

    I mean, we're designing shapes & relief detail in software, exactly to avoid sculpting after the item has been printed.(just my opinion of course)