Gravitational Waves - Little Commission Pendant

Discussion in 'My Shapeways Order Arrived' started by Chrys, Dec 18, 2016.

  1. Chrys
    Chrys Member
    Hi I just wanted to show you guys a little commission piece I made for a physicist at my university. It came out really nice. I wish I would have needed less support but it was not printable otherwise.

    Anyhow, I really like it, I hope you guys do too. Critique and suggestions always welcome!

    Combined.png
     
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  2. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    They shed mass-energy as gravitational waves as they dance; closer and closer, the gravitational waves spreading outward at the speed of light. So cool man. One would think that there would be a connection between the two event horizons at that distance, forming one non-spherical (e.g. hourglass-shaped) event horizon? You'd have to ask your physicist, because I'm not certain either way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  3. Ontogenie
    Ontogenie Well-Known Member
    Beautiful! So did Shawn get the physics right, or would you like to explain it to us? :)
     
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  4. Chrys
    Chrys Member
    Thanks for the input guys, I am glad you like it !

    I will definitely inquire about the physics in more detail on Monday ( my fortee is genetics not astrophysics :) ). But what I gathered from the description I was given when the commission was made, I will make a speculation: Since the two mass points are pretty close and they orbit their bary center I would suggest that the event horizon remains approximately spherical. Since we have standard two body physics here, I would assume that you could imagine it like a binary star system which planets still have an relatively circular / elliptical orbit. But I will get back to you on that one !
     
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  5. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Sorry I was assuming they were black holes. Even the Earth emits gravitational waves as it orbits the Sun. I don't have a fortee LOL. :)

    Again, your pendant is very cool. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
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  6. Chrys
    Chrys Member
    They are black holes ;) I was just trying to explain my assumption that two black holes would act similiar. Like two "normal" bodies - but hey - I have no real idea either :p
     
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  7. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    OK :)
     
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  8. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Hi Chrys, did you get a chance to ask your physicist about the hourglass shape?
     
  9. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
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  10. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
  11. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    Thinking about this is a brain burner. It's easier to visualize stars merging and forming a hourglass bridge because it makes some sense. But with black holes it's the event horizons that would probably merge a fraction of a second before any of the matter inside the two black holes interact or merge (assuming what's in a black hole is anything like matter and energy we understand). How matter and energy manifest themselves inside a black hole in terms of distribution and location could also influence how the event horizons behave during merger.

    And from the outside the merger is a huge mess of relativistic effects including space warping that would affect the "shapes" of the event horizons. In the most simple case an hourglass bridge might make more sense for the case of two black holes heading towards each other in a straight line and not spinning together in an orbit and having no rotation of the stuff inside the black hole, assuming that's even a possibility. But such a collision could be exceeding rare and might never happen at all in trillions of years.
     
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  12. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  13. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    The event horizons have no mass. They are simply manifestations of what's inside the black holes and mark the point of no return. They probably wouldn't interact with each other in the same way as as we expect with matter. So it's not unreasonable to assume that the event horizons of each black hole could remain mostly spherical up to the point that the matter inside the two holes merge or interact, after one swallows the other, and that after the merger you simply have a larger spherical event horizon. In such a case the general assumption is that the "core" of each black hole is very, very small if not infinitesimally small compared to the diameters of the event horizons.

    And here's a thought to blow your mind. Let's say we have a large black hole merging with a small black hole. Once the small black hole enters the event horizon of the larger one maybe it remains a black hole and continues to orbit the "core" of the larger black hole - but inside the event horizon so we can't see it from the outside - with a set of physical rules and laws that are nothing like what is experienced in normal space. That's one of the problems with all of this. We don't know what's inside a black hole and there could be a lot of crazy stuff happening in there that can't be deduced from external observations.
     
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  14. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Thanks for the explanation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  15. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    I love the design and the discussion it spawned :D
     
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  16. Ontogenie
    Ontogenie Well-Known Member
    You guys totally lost me (I am sooo ignorant of physics!) but the design is still great.
     
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  17. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Yep, the pendant is one of a kind. :) I like it more and more as time goes on.

    What happens inside and at the black hole's event horizon is up for debate. One option is that the black hole's mass-energy lies at the centre (e.g. classical general relativity). One other option is that the black hole's mass-energy lies at the event horizon (e.g. quantum graphity). One last option is that the black hole's mass-energy is contained within the event horizon, but not necessarily at the centre (e.g. Mathur's stringy fuzzball).

    It's fun to list the options and go through them, especially because it involves the coolest kind of object -- a black hole. When I say cool, I mean colloquially, not literally. The black hole has a temperature, and it can be very hot. LOL. It's called the Hawking temperature, after the eminent physicist Stephen Hawking. That guy rocked the general relativists with his black hole temperature (and entropy). Why he doesn't have the Nobel prize is beyond me.

    Take what I say with a grain of salt... I'm not a physicist by any stretch of the imagination... I know bits and pieces.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  18. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
  19. Chrys
    Chrys Member
    Hi Guys, sorry for my absence but lots todo before my department goes into christmas hibernation:

    So a quick response from the physicist. I showed her the thread and we discussed it yesterday for a while. A lot already was mentioned which is quite accurate.

    The most important points are :
    1. We really have no idea whats going on behind the event horizont of a black hole plus no black hole was ever directly observed - all speculations are based on inference and simulations.

    2. The event horizon has no mass ( as it was mentioned ) it is a calculated radius or sphere of influence which is the dead end for conventional information except for Hawkings radiation. All inference we make on whats going on beyond that is more or less speculativ.

    3. When the two event horizons of a binary black hole "touch" they will infact ( approximatly ) form a hourglass bridge for a very very short amount of time before they would practically become one deformed event horizon until the mass centers are close enough and the distance rotation of the points is fast enough to compensate for the "wobble". Since they are rotating the end result will be an oblate spheroid until everything has settled down. As far is I understand, the topology of the black holes are indeed an area of strong disagreement since some simulations proposed solutions which would violate the no-hair theorem, which states that black holes can only be characterized by information which is observable meaning we can make no assumption about the mass itself since it is beyond the event horizon. Some simulations assume mass is dispersed within the event horizon others assume mass points which both make trouble with the math at some point :p

    Also, a little bit of shameless self-promotion - I got permission to make the design available since scientists are all about making stuff accessible. But to make up for that the piece was given as a present with no charge to her :).

    http://shpws.me/N6H6

    Also a little side note to why Stephen Hawking does not have a Nobel:

    Plain and simple - none of his hypothesis actually have been expirimentally verified. It is the curse of the theorist I guess. But he has gotten tons and tons of other prices and honours so he is covered.

    History will surely put him up there with Bohr, Einstein, Planck, Maxwell and others so no worries there ;).

    Einstein did not get his nobel for General Relativity because it could not get really be verified at the time.
     
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  20. shawn_halayka
    shawn_halayka Well-Known Member
    Thanks Chrys! And thank you to the physicist for the clarification. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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