Design guidelines

Discussion in 'Bug Reporting' started by 3rdboxcar, May 2, 2013.

  1. 3rdboxcar
    3rdboxcar New Member
    I have created a series of Buses, to be printed in FUD, there are bars on each window which I initially designed as 0.3mm x 0.9mm x 7.9mm, I had 4 printed and all came out perfect. After creating a different version of the bus this was rejected because the bars were to thin with the explanation that it did not meet the design guidelines. I made the bars thicker on all my versions of the bus to 0.4mm x 0.9mm x 7.9mm and had 4 versions of the model printed. I have just had somebody buy a bus and this was rejected because the bars do not meet the guidelines!!! and the wall needs to be 0.6mm

    I replied stating that the bars were supported walls and not free walls.

    The return email said the guidelines were out of date!

    Taken from Design Specifications page - Min Wall Supported: 0.5mm (Frosted Detail) · 0.3mm (Frosted Ultra Detail) delines

    Please help with just what are the design guidelines for FUD as it appears that FUD is less detailed than FD.

    This was the very first print with the 0.3 x 0.9 x 7.9 bars
  2. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Shapeways Employee Community Team
    I'm checking into this for you, to see what's going on.
  3. 3rdboxcar
    3rdboxcar New Member
    Thanks :)
  4. Dragoman
    Dragoman New Member
    Your are not the only one who has been hit by this "creep" in FUD rules. I too have had several models designed according to the guidelines - and this was confirmed by the service team - but which were rejected by production.

    I see that they update the guidelines now, wires are now supposed to be at least 0.6 to 0.8 mm thick - can't remember seeing that this was announced.

    Today I even got a rejection in WSF because of "thin walls"- printed several times before. :confused

  5. 3rdboxcar
    3rdboxcar New Member
    The issue also seems to be
    1 - when is a wall a wall and when is a wire a wire.
    2 - what is supported and what is not.

    My interpretation
    A wall is a cuboid which has length width and height.
    A wire is cylinder which has diameter and length

    My window bars are cuboid and supported at each end which I would call a supported wall so the minimum for a supported wall is 0.3mm.

  6. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    Cuboid and Cylinder are the wrong definitions. The word "wire" was a simplistic definition that actually worked well. For one thing, it's perfectly reasonable to have "square wire".

    If I have a oval shape that is 2x wider than it is thick.. that would still be a wall... depending upon what it's attached to.

    To determine walls/wires, you must have a definition that also properly covers "engraved/extruded" details.

    Over the years here at Shapeways, I've grown to an understanding as to what is what, but I haven't determined a good way to codify the rules. I could draw it out for you on a whiteboard, but a paragraph or just a couple of images won't convey the meaning. Maybe someone who is good at building InfoGraphics could take the info and draw something reasonable.
  7. 3rdboxcar
    3rdboxcar New Member
    Hi Stonysmith

    I use the terms cuboid and cylinder as they are basic engineering definitions only as a way to get to what can and what can't be printed on FUD, I have no problem of making models strong enough as most of mine are designed to be handled but when I was told these window bars [whether they be wires, walls, elephants or tigers] must be a minimum of 0.8mm then what is the point of FUD.

    If 0.8mm is the smallest dimension that you can have then why not say this in the specification guidelines?

    Why quote supported / non supported dimensions, minimum wall thickness etc etc, the whole thing can be covered by a single statement - minimum dimension 0.8mm.

    The whole point being on Sunday one member of the production team says 0.3 x 0.9 x 7.9 is just ok but it would be better if I increased to 0.4mm x 0.9mm x 7.9mm which I did and the model is printed ok, then on Wednesday it is not ok?