3d materials and modelling glue!

Discussion in 'Newcomers Lounge' started by cobusp, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    Hi all.

    I am new to 3d printing.

    Does anyone know if the fine plastic material can be used with hobby scale modelling cement? I plan to create unassembled scale models for a niche market.
     
  2. GWMT
    GWMT New Member
    Hi cobusp;

    You'll need to use ACC (crazy glue) to glue White, Stong & Flexible and Detail materials together. I use the 'thick' kind of ACC; its consistency is like Testors' tube cement (doesn't flow like water all over your model) and it takes a few seconds to set up so you have time to adjust things.
     
  3. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    For the record, in other places ACC is known as cyanoacrylate, CA, with brands like super glue or filla-glu. Also PVA glue (the white one used for wood) can be used if the surface is big (this one works as sealant too).
     
  4. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    Thank you for the feedback -- much appreciated!
     
  5. CGD
    CGD New Member
    I found that quick set (5 min.) two parts epoxy glue is strongest to bond WSF material. But you have to hold the parts in place and held your breath for 5 minutes. :laughing:

    I usually apply just a little bit on area of the parts to be glued, wait two minutes until the glue gets tacky, and then joint the pieces together.

    Another trick to use super glue is to apply very very thin layer of epoxy glue to the surface to be join. After it has set, then use super glue to join the parts together, i.e. join the epoxy layer together.

    CGD
     
  6. GWMT
    GWMT New Member
    "I found that quick set (5 min.) two parts epoxy glue is strongest to bond WSF material. But you have to hold the parts in place and held your breath for 5 minutes."

    Try putting a fan set on low speed about 8 feet to one side from you blowing across the work surface. There should be just enough air flow to keep the fumes away from your face but not disturb anything on your work surface.
     
  7. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    Thank you very much CGD for the usefulfeedback. What concerns me though, is if customers will be satisfied with the inconvenient way of glueing pieces together.

    I notics that you have created quite a few piecs for hobbyists. Aren't customers annoyed if they are not able to use the standard, "once-off" modellign cement?
     
  8. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    That depends, some people use CA glue for everything, because as soon as the kit has metal parts, you can't use plastic one anyway. Also some like to be able to separate parts if not happy with the result, while plastic cement melts and will require cutting.

    Customer's biggest problem will probably be surface texture.
     
  9. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    I know this one is definitely on our shelves, and it's described as " single-componet cyanoacrylate monomer". You think it will do the job? Super-Glue-KX-401-.jpg
     
  10. CGD
    CGD New Member
    cobusp:

    The models I designed are usually "one piece" without the need for assembling, except for moving pivots. This is possible because 3D printing allows undercuts and hollow chambers, not like regular molding. It would be more challenging for the customer to paint but can avoid the need for gluing.

    There are parts that required gluing afterward because of printing difficulties. Those I try to design built-in fixtures for easy gluing.

    The Super Glue you posted is the CA glue we are talking about. But if possible, you should use the thicker type as GWMT said, or the gel type. Otherwise the WSF will soak up the glue before it can set.

    And stannum:


    You are right that texture is the main concern. I now used multi layers of paint to minimize the texture as shown here:
    http://www.combatgroupdynamix.com/index3.html
     
  11. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    Thanks CGD for the very useful info. Nice guide you provided as well!

    Looks like I'm in business then. Now to complete my model!
     
  12. GWMT
    GWMT New Member
    Yes, that's a great guide CGD. Did you paint that model with a brush?
     
  13. CGD
    CGD New Member
    Thank you! You are all welcome!

    Yes, I painted the models with a brush.

    CGD
     
  14. GWMT
    GWMT New Member
    Please forgive me, cobusp, for temporarily turning this thread in a different direction. I'd like to show you and CGD the results from trying his painting technique.

    I brush painted the part with one coat of Badger CP Action Red acrylic paint then brush painted a coat of clear closs acrylic over that. Next I lightly sanded a part of the surface with a fibreglass pen (http://www.micromark.com/2-piece-Mini-Brush-Set,6564.html) per Richard at Ben Racey Modelling ( http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=4901&a mp;start=0&) - what a difference in surface texture!
    CP 304000 paint test_1069.jpg

    I'm going to super glue some styrene detail parts to the brackets in the photo and spray paint one last coat of red paint.
     
  15. CGD
    CGD New Member

    Very interesting. Haven't heard of the fibreglass pen before. Waiting to see how the final result looks.

    CGD
     
  16. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
    Thanks GMWT for the interesting info!

    I am curious, why do you modellers pick white, strong & flexible insead of white detail (which is apparently smoother in terms of surface texture)?

    Something else: I uploaded a test model (still with very little detail) which is like the typical un-assembled model kit. It is very flat and non-solid, and with the frame included, its dimensions are roughly 29x42x1,5 cm. But again, lots of space in between.

    I was quite surprised at the quoted price: $170.67 (whew!). I modeled it in Carrara and exported it in the Collada format. Is there any chance the dimensions could change between programs/formats, resulting in uploads bigger than the originals?
     
  17. cobusp
    cobusp New Member
  18. CGD
    CGD New Member
    Hi,

    Check out my thread here and you'll see why I dropped White Detail:
    http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=tree&th=1800& amp;S=5e904b4c9443bf8ea4d6317a081aa127

    And WSF can be as thin as 0.75mm too.

    BTW, you need to make your uploaded model either public or hidden before we can see it.

    CGD
     
  19. GWMT
    GWMT New Member
    "...why do you modellers pick white, strong & flexible insead of white detail (which is apparently smoother in terms of surface texture)?"

    My reasons are price, minimum thickness and flexibility. Detail is nearly twice the price of WSF and has a minimum thickness of 1mm (versus 0.7mm for WSF).

    Detail models without any processing look much better than WSF (http://www.proto87.org/d/?q=node/42) but they're brittle. CGD's linked page has an image of a thin WSF tank barrel being bent about 45 degrees off true without breaking.

    cobusp; I'm not allowed to see your uploaded model; have you got the Model availability 'available to all' box checked and Model view shape set to 'Show only'?
    Shapeways model visibility.jpg
     
  20. cobusp
    cobusp New Member