(rit) Dyeing White Strong And Flexible...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1610012_deleted, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. i have heard Rit dyes work well for dying 3D printed products... i'm planing on dying (dark color) distressing with sandpaper and re-dying in contrasting bright color https://www.shapeways.com/product/VUKF95TWE/tlf-shabby-body-18650?

    ideally i'd use Rit's 'All purpose' dyes for the color choice - i have read the tips on Rits website (basically for fabric dying) and so have an idea - but has anyone any tips/warnings - specific things like would making the dye bath with boiling water deform / ruin the item?

    has anyone used Rit Dye ColorStay Fixative on printed items? worth it?

    should i use Rit 'DyeMore for synthetic Fabrics' instead? (with the small color palette)

    any help for a noob appreciated

    cheers
     
  2. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    I have been using Rit DyeMore and Rit Dye Liquid for my WSFP Transformers toy add-on designs. ( see my shop items )

    These are relatively small items with walls as thin as WSFP allows (0.7mm) ; I have successfully dyed them
    in a boiling dye bath - but I would strongly advise to use a sifter to dip the items under, instead of touching them
    with a spoon while they're in the dye bath due to risk of deformation.

    Also; keep in mind that variation in wall thickness, consistency ( or lack thereof ) of polishing and print orientation
    will influence the quality and nature of your dye result.
    Going from light coloring to dark coloring is feasible - whereas trying to go from dark to light is basically NOT possible !

    Unless you are certain that you can sand an area down deep enough where the dark dye hasn't impregnated the material. Let's say you have a wire wall of 1mm or 2mm thin ; chances are, the dark dye will have penetrated the entire volume of the wire wall, so sanding it down will probably not reveal bare white material.

    Some colors also tend to be way more potent & overpowering than others. Rit DyeMore Graphite for example, is a very potent dye. Mix any other color up with Graphite too much, and the Graphite will overpower the color to a very dark tone.

    Rit DyeMore Kentucky Sky is a very mild dye for example ; it will easily be overpowered by other colors. Some other colors tend to be tricky ; for example Rit Dye More Frost Gray ; in my experience, it turned WSFP into milk chocolate brown color !
    Rit Dye Liquid Teal has proven to work just as well on WSFP as Rit Dye More by the way.
     
    1610012_deleted and Shea_Design like this.
  3. thanks for the response - i hadnt thought of using a sifter to hold the items but i'll do that now

    (squonk) mods are routinely distressed with sandpaper to expose the white...
    [​IMG]
    i did wonder how deep the dye really penetrates - maybe how long you keep it in the dye bath affects that.

    i was going to use boiling water in a pyrex bowl, and put that bowl onto a tray or bigger bowl also holding boiling water to keep it hot longer. but i guess if in a sifter i can lift it out and microwave the dye bowl for 15 seconds or so every few mins to keep it hot and not use a 2nd bowl.

    • for how long do you suggest i keep the items in the dye?
    • how many ml of concentrate to a litre of water do you generally use?
    • rinsing - is it just a matter to lift out the sieve and run under a warm tap for 30 seconds?
    • so you dont use / need the colorstay fixative?
    • do you forsee any problems with using rit regular dyes - black followed (after distressing) with tangerine or lemon-lime (aquamirine + lemon yellow) to make the white a bright color? (except for taste! lol)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
  4. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    1. When dying, you really need to consider the dimensions and wall thickness of your object ; the smaller & thinner a part, the more likely it is the dye will impregnate it deeper. Remember that the Strong Flexible materials ( even if Polished ) are a porous material, sort of like brickstone.

    Indeed, I use a pyrex roaster for the dye bath - then dip the parts into it with the sifter. Your idea of using a second roaster with boiling water sounds too risky and unstable. I use the stove method, so I can see when the dye boils in the pot, then pour it into the pyrex roaster immediately. If it cools down and I need it to be boiling hot again, I take the parts out and I simply heat the dye up on the stove again.

    In my case, the dimensions for some of my parts can be very small, as small as 0.5 square cm. Since these parts are for detailed toys, they contain many small detailings such as ridges, relief sculptings (such as text ). Such outer surface details sticking out a millimeter, will surely be fully dye impregnated. Sanding it down for the hope of finding bare white will most likely be futile.

    How deep it impregnates, does indeed depend on the time you keep it submerged in the dye bath as well; but do keep in mind general rule of thumb;

    - To attain a dark color, dye time is longer. ( 1 minute or longer)
    - To attain a light tone color, dye time must be kept short. ( some times as short as 20 - 30 seconds )

    Only you know the extent of variation in wall thickness your objects have, so if you need it to be a dark color it will need to be submerged longer, which in turn means the dye might have gone deeper than surface deep.
    With the aesthetic goal you have described, it will probably require some testing to get a feel for the way the dye impregnates different parts of your object - so, I suggest printing some extra test samples.

    2. Use a meassuring cup. The Rit Dye bottles usually contain a net 207ML. That's just enough for a small parts dye bath, so I would empty that entire bottle in the meassuring cup and add water until the total reaches about 300 - 350ML. I would suggest that dye to water ratio. This also depends a bit on the strength of the dye. If you want a light tone color, you can raise the water ratio a bit higher to say : 50% dye - 50% water. Remember to shake the dye bottle before you use it because pigment might have shifted and sunk to the bottom of the bottle.

    3. Rinsing ; yes, just hold the sifter with the parts under running tapwater. You will visually see how the water 'peels' off the dye which hasn't stuck to the object. ( sometimes it will look really dark while in the dye bath after just 30 seconds already, then take the part out and rinse it, revealing a much lighter tone. - so, it depends on the duration of dye bath )

    4. I have not used the colorstay fixative. Many of my toy parts contain balljoints and other kinds of friction areas ; so far I have had NO issues of dye 'rubbing' off, so no need for this fixative stuff. Sounds a bit like a marketing ploy to me - unless they mean it ensures color quality due to the super long term effects of UV sunlight exposure. But even in that respect, I have seen no dye color discoloration yet.

    5. Dyes ; I would suggest to start with Rit Dye More where possible. In my case, I needed super light turqoise which I apparently could not achieve with the limited color range of the Rit Dye More line. If that's the case for the shade of lemon/lime you have in mind, you might need to get colors from the Rit Dye Liquid line.
    I would suggest starting with Rit Dye More Graphite for black - then rinse and sand it down at the sections you want to reveal white ( again, keep in mind this will depend on wall thickness and dye time. Highly depends on the model ) - then dye it again in your lighter tone color of choice( they might or might not affect the black to limited extent )

    6. Last but not least ; Before you start the dye process - ALWAYS, always rinse and clean a WSF(P) object in water and scrub it down with a soft tooth brush first. White powder residu might be stuck in crevices. I once had a case of powder residu and the part came out brilliant deep blue, then some reside powder came out of a little corner crevice and revealed a white spot where I didn't want or expect it to be.

    Goodluck !
     
    1610012_deleted likes this.
  5. [​IMG]
    i may have a problem on the door detail if it really does penetrate anywhere near that deep

    that is much more concentrated than i expected, and a shorter time
    According to Rit's website:-
    • Items, such as beads, buttons and legos, can be heat-sensitive so we recommend dyeing in a small container. This is a modified Bucket method.
    1. Heat 4 cups of water in a pot or teapot on the stove until it boils. Remove water and pour into a container. Add ½ cup dye to the water; stir well. Immerse items into the dye bath. Stir and let set 2 to 5 minutes or until desired color is achieved, up to 30 minutes.
    maybe i'll compromise somewhere between the 2 as i dont require a pure, deep, flawless color finish - i want it to be a bit scruffy looking - i am going to mess it up with sandpaper afterall. i like that your method is very quick - so maybe the dye wont penetrate as deep.

    i'll take more care in the pre-dye preperation (i want those crevices to be black and not the lighter color)


    cheers again - i've got a better idea of what i'm meant to be doing now
     
  6. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    Yeah.... the details on that door panel are likely to be impregnated if you need it to be black or some kind of other dark color, because of the longer dye duration it requires for those darker colors.

    Regarding the quoted instructions from the Rit website : please bear in mind the beads, buttons and legos mentioned are NOT porous like Shapeways' WSFP. They are usually some sort of injection mold plastic like ABS. Since the Shapeways WSF is porous nylon, it takes the Rit Dye a lot quicker than ABS.

    The concentration as they mention is an economic guideline; some colors are way more potent than others. As I said, the Rit Dye More Graphite is highly potent. Indeed, for shades of gray ( lol ) you may just need a little bit of Graphite dye in proportion to water, but from my experience, colors like Rit Dye More Kentucky Sky are very mild and may require a bit more to get a deep color result.

    Here's a video from Rit's own youtube channel which I used as a guideline for my dye jobs. Basically, this lady shows the process of coloring a WSF phonecase. Contrary to the website, she doesn't exactly meassure either. In reality, it usually comes down to testing things out. Hence, as I suggested earlier, you order a few more test objects.

     
  7. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    I don't know anything about the Shapeways dye process or how consistent it is relative to the changing properties of the printed material, but it doesn't seem to go very deep into the print, at least for blue and this particular print. For this print embossing height was set at 0.8 mm in the CustomMaker tool and sanded down to be mostly white.

    [​IMG]
     
    1610012_deleted likes this.
  8. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    I concur to some extent.

    I put this to the test on 2 of my own dye samples:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Indeed, the sanded super dark navy blue part shows the relief detail as white bare material.
    However, if you look at the turqoise part; it features a top panel of 1.15mm spec thickness.
    I sanded it down pretty agressively, but I couldn't sand it down any further or I wouldn't have any panel left anymore.
    As you can see, there is still some turqoise in there, which has definetely penetrated this 1.15mm wall from both sides.

    So here's what I conclude from this: if relief detail is backed by a sufficient amount of material volume, then it will sand down as white.

    However, if the relief detail is located ontop of a wall of 1mm thickness or less and this wall has been submerged in dye both sides, then there is no real guarantee it's all white internally.
     
    1610012_deleted likes this.
  9. thats exactly as i hoped / expected initially
    i can see the scale from your mouse, and the bunny on the door if anything should be more robust. however i am dyeing it myself as opposed to using the shapeways process wich might make the dye penetrate deeper.

    i was toying with the idea of 'protecting' the bunny - masking it off somehow.
    masking it off with tape? - no way
    sticky back plastic and a stanley knife ? - way too fiddly and i'd be gouging the door
    a bit of vaseline on your finger and smoothed over the raised part? - easily doable - but is it a good idea?

    but now i am feeling optimistic that i probably dont need any masking with my project

    the vid with the headphones / phonecase is the kind of blasé approach that resonates with my lackadaisical preferences ;)
     
  10. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    I would probably try some kind of transparent sealer on the raised parts. Something that remains clear after dyeing or doesn't alter the underlying color to something that looks bad. Maybe carefully brushing on thin cyanoacrylate glue or a wood sealer? Careful is the key word here since any drips on the surface would block the dye. Brushing on the glue may also be difficult seeing as the brush might get glued to the plastic unless you use some specialized silicone strands or something similarly exotic. Another thing that might work is a thinned down two-part resin product that sets more slowly.
     
  11. i think vaseline would leave an oily residue - so thats the last of those ideas out

    not sure about glue - but a silicon sealant has possibilities so long as it peels off easy.

    however - i think i have decided on going without - and dye for the minimum time possible to get a sufficient coloring
     
  12. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    Earlier I told you about that nylon powder which stuck into a crevice corner and left a white spot after dye bath, right...

    Well.... later on I painted over the spot with Vallejo blue acrylic. Then I redid the dye bath to match the paint.
    But guess what.... the dye bath is so hot, after a few minutes the paint simply came off.

    I think you'll just have to experiment a bit to see what works for your goals.
     
  13. just google Vallejo - and i saw this


    definite possibility
     
  14. knoted
    knoted Active Member
    Oh, the Vallejo liquid mask - yes, I have that stuff.... but afaik, it's on the same acrylic basis as the Game Color range paints, so after that experience with the paint coming off in the dye bath, I presume the same would happen to this liquid mask. Afteral, I think it's meant for just the brush & spraycan painting process.