Matte Black Steel - Disappointing

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by RAD_Design_Lab, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Recently received some part that I had ordered in Matte Black Steel. This was not my first time ordering this material, and usually the parts look great. This time however there was a major inconsistency in color. Two of the five pieces looked great - nice rich black color. The other 3 pieces look like they haven't received any treatment at all. In fact they look pretty similar to some plain SS parts I've received in the past. Shapeways response was that this "falls under an expectations issue as what you received is indeed the Matte Black finish". I assume they mean an issue with my expectations?

    I do understand that some of these processes are difficult to control and can be somewhat inconsistent. But if we are expected to accept such a wide range in finish color, then that range needs to be accurately reflected and advertised on the shapeways website. Very disappointed in these results. Photo attached.... photo (1).JPG
     
  2. UniverseBecoming
    UniverseBecoming Well-Known Member
    Being that Shapeways is such a large company I'm always happy to beat up on them when I see that they may be doing something that is less than desirable. But in this case they're covered. From their material info page:

    Look and feel

    A robust metal with a rough, pitted surface. Steel is available in a variety of polished and matte finishes, and good for a wide range of applications including jewelry, functional parts, and small sculptures.This material is 3D printed 420 Stainless Steel infused with bronze, and has a final composition of approximately 60% steel and 40% bronze. The way that bronze infiltrates into the steel can vary, and this changes the color of your product. If there is a higher concentration of Bronze near the surface of the product, it will take on more of Bronze's deep brown color. This has the most noticeable impact on Stainless Steel, but can also affect the shade of other finishes.


    Yeah I'd be disappointed too with that result. Perhaps, you can do some extra finishing on your own to bring them up to a more desirable shade. Perhaps, you could try using one of Caswell's stainless steel blackener products to get the shade you're looking for. Probably very difficult though to make anything exactly match the two that are already dark enough.
     
  3. Yeah they are covered with the disclaimer I guess. But words don't really give me a good idea of how much the finish could vary. It would be more responsible of shapeways if they would publish photos of the material at each end of the color spectrum so we have a better understanding of what our parts could look like - not just a photo of a perfect black bunny. But this might lead to reduced sales. After this result, I'm very reluctant to order the Matte Black material again. I'd rather just order regular stainless and try to finish the parts myself...if such a solution exists.

    Has anyone here tried any other secondary post processing to blacken metal parts - like the Caswell blackener product or something else? Not really looking for a painted solution. Would prefer something more durable that won't chip or flake off (rubbing, wearing, and patina over time is acceptable). I don't really expect or need the parts to be exactly the same shade of black. But I would like them to consistently be darker than the gray items shown in the photo.

    Thanks!
     
  4. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    Please email service with your concerns. They'll be able to tell if this is an expected result or not, and be able to fix any issues there may be.
     
  5. UniverseBecoming
    UniverseBecoming Well-Known Member
    True! They should have a photo of the variations. Let's beat up on Shapeways for that. Where's my Nerf bat? HAHAHA! :D

    I think they did have a photo up showing the variations in the past of just the plain unfinished material. They need to repost it along with the variations in the new finishes if they want to be fair. :)

    As to your question, beside those that are here in the general discussion forum that will see your question there is the Post Production Techniques forum that you can post the question to. Also, the best place to ask online is the forum at Finishing.com where the worlds top experts in finishing hang out.

    As for my suggestion of using a stainless steel blackener, after I posted that I remembered that variability is related to how much bronze ends up on the surface, consequently, stainless steel blackener is not going to be of much help since the light color is coming from the excess bronze. What is needed then is a bronze blackener for which I have no knowledge of, but experts in the field will probably know of something that will work well.
     
  6. Thanks Michael,
    I have already received the disappointing feedback from service that this is an expected result. Just doesn't look anything like the example photos on the shapeways website...that is my main problem.

    Universe,
    Thanks for the tips on finishing. I'll take a look. Not trying to beat up on shapeways (love them), just feeling a little duped on this order. Hopefully they will publish some more accurate photos so others do not have this same problem.
     
  7. numarul7
    numarul7 Well-Known Member
    Rings will look way better in polished bronze rather steel.

    I agree there are some big variations but it is clearly bronze who got in to much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  8. UniverseBecoming
    UniverseBecoming Well-Known Member
    ^ Expensive though.

    I looked around and found something you may be interested in trying. Take a look at this. It just may work very well and can be easily implemented for production.
     
  9. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    We'll get it worked out for you ;-)
     
  10. Thanks for all the feedback and help. Shapeways has agreed to rebuild the parts. I realize that they have no legal obligation to do this. Just good customer service which is greatly appreciated. I will be more aware of this issue in the future and hopefully shapeways can do a better job of demonstrating (photographically) this variation for black steel and other processes that might be vulnerable to issues like this.
     
  11. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    I personally discussed that with CS so we'll see what we can do to better convey what you should expect.
     
  12. stop4stuff
    stop4stuff Well-Known Member
    Hi Mike,

    Shapeways can use this image to show the extremes of the base Stainless Steel variations.
    If it is used, please can creditation & a link to my Twin Rail Mobius pendant model page be used?

    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Paul

     
  13. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    Paul, I can pass it on, and I always make sure that when I see that we don't credit and link, that I tell them too.
     
  14. PeregrineStudios
    PeregrineStudios Well-Known Member
    Disclaimer or not, I find it outright misleading to advertise it as 'Matte Black Steel' and make sure all the photos show the nice proper black outcome, when they know full well that it may not actually be black. Technically and legally, yes, they're covered, but I look on something like that as a deliberate attempt to lie to me, and I don't find it even remotely respectful.

    EDIT: I see above that they agreed to reprint. I certainly hope that will be the matter of course when the prints do not come out black, rather than the exception.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  15. Thanks Paul,
    Nice parts. Good idea. Maybe there is a way for shapeways to use user submitted photos to show a wide range of parts made in different materials. Photo qualitiy/inconsistency could be a factor though.
     
  16. Stevewallin
    Stevewallin Member
    I also just received a very disappointing matte black steel order, which was nowhere near black. I'm really hoping they will remake the part.

    File_001 (1).jpeg
     
  17. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    We guarantee every order, so no matter what you'll at least get your money back to re-order. Black steel is a chemical process that will vary by the amount of bronze infusion. We still don't have a great description of this on the product page. I'll bump that discussion.
     
  18. IntelXeon
    IntelXeon Well-Known Member
    why not just do anodizing? or powder coating
     
  19. Youknowwho4eva
    Youknowwho4eva Well-Known Member
    It's what's offered from our supplier. Anodizing would probably still depend on the bronze content. Powder coating would be interesting. In my experience (so there may be other methods) powder coating is fairly thick, and would eat up tiny details.
     
  20. crashtestdummy
    crashtestdummy Well-Known Member
    Working in manufacturing were finish parts color is important (yes we mostly blacken steel) we have color cards if the color range is not between the acceptable colors on the drift cars back in the blackener they go. I'd recommend an acceptable blacking spec cards be adapted.