Newbie Printing Questions.

Discussion in 'Newcomers Lounge' started by dom_b1709, Mar 26, 2017.

  1. dom_b1709
    dom_b1709 Member
    I am doing this purely for hobby purposes. This file is what I would like to have printed. Is this all I would need to provide to the printing company? What would the cost be per unit? The model would be in 1:48 scale. So the model would be about 2-3/4" tall at the shoulders.

    https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-model-asian-elephant/1101088

    Thanks in advance,
    Dom
     
  2. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    That object appears to be available as a Blender project file only - you would need to load it into this freeware program and export from there to one of the file formats shapeways supports - STL or OBJ if all you want is the form, DAE, VRML or X3D if you also want the color texture. Cost depends on your choice of material (with color/texture you are limited to their "full color sandstone" gypsum) and is primarily based on volume of material used. (Detailed pricing and design limitations can be found under the "Materials" heading, you would get an instant quote on upload). As far as I see, the model appears to be solid which will adversely influence cost unless you manage to make it hollow. If printing in color, the thin ears and free-hanging tail of the elephant may be at the thickness limit for the "sandstone" material.
     
  3. dom_b1709
    dom_b1709 Member
    Thanks for the quick response. Not worried about color, I planed to paint it myself. I will go looking in the Materials area to get a better handle on the. cost
     
  4. i've read about the ProJet 3600 3D Wax Printing machine. Is this how Shapeways carves from CAD files?
     
  5. Anyuta3D
    Anyuta3D Well-Known Member
    Dear Dom,

    As a fellow scale modeler with 35 years experience on miniatures and scartchbuilding details, I would like to give you my honest advice.

    DO NOT BUY the 3D file you found on the forementioned link, hoping to later 3D print it as a 1/48 scale elephant miniature. Simply, do NOT! Why? Well, even if you could convert the given CAD format into a more Shapeways-friendly digital file type and manage to re-size it under correct dimension, the 3D printed miniature object ourcome will be much different than you expect. I fully understand that you've been impressed by screenshots found under file's presentation but if you look closer, the file is offered in LOW resolution and the actual result is THIS! Meaning? The 3D printing result (let's forget for a moment the 3D printing process cost) will look kinda weird and you will discover that your choice was not the wisest.

    [​IMG]
    I am sure that you would never like your 3D printed 1/48 scale elephant look like the following two screenshots and later need to try countless hours of sanding the surface trying to make it look realistic - total waste of effort and money.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Keep in mind, that 3D design and 3D printing is an amazing tool for scale modeling hobby, but most people are not aware some basic terms. What you see on screen on an un-painted & pure 3D model, showing all these "pixelized polygons", is what you'll get later on the miniature object surface. For example, we also have a 3D model (digital file) of an Indian elephant, with much better 3D building quality, much more detailed Hi-Res surface that could result to a much more sharped and nicely built miniature.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Anyway, despite the fact we also design Hi-Res 3D models of elephants (just like the one you asked) and 3D print them with best available Frosted Detail plastic material which is ideal for scale miniatures, we still think that 3D printing a 1/48 scale elephant miniature is not the best solution for you, as long as you can find much more detailed and with much lower price a product that will make you happy. Do not forget, that 3D printing, can produce some amazingly detailed miniature models, but most of times it does cost a lot - producing an elephant (even if made hollowed to save plastic) would require an amount that could be a little higher that you expect. With same money, you could find much better offers and buy the 1/48 scale elephant from a toy store.

    There are plenty of elephant miniatures in market, made by styrene plastic, resin, white metal etc, under various scales & sizes (1/15, 1/20, 1/32, 1/35, 1/48, 1/54, 1/72, 1/86 etc, etc, etc.). Prices? In some cases, lower than $10! If you are not an experienced scale modeler to have in mind some well-known factories producing such elephant miniatures, I would recommend to visit your local toy store (I've seen amazing painted elephants in various scales into such shops) or simply Google it!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    In case you are still puzzled and do not know where to look for, try to Google for animal miniatures made by a companies called "Papo" or "Schleich". There are many elephants, African or Asian typed, under many different sizes, offered for few USD only - you'll be amazed!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hope all the above mentioned info help you a lot to choose what is best for you.
    It’s always a pleasure to help fellow scale modelers & collectors and provide best available service for them. Please let us know if you are also interested in any similar items, scale model kits, figures or diorama accessories. We ‘ll be very happy to keep in contact with you.


    Regards,
    Anyuta 3D
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  6. the ProJet 3600 3D Wax Printing machine is designed to handle miniatures outputs from CAD. i was just wandering whether or not Shapeways does milling with this type of machine
     
  7. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    [​IMG]
    Elephant model is fine, it comes with displacement map, just apply it and get the dense mesh.
    But toys or models tend to be cheaper, yep.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  8. Anyuta3D
    Anyuta3D Well-Known Member
    @ stannum,

    The 3D file hosted into the forementioned link, includes (according to description) only 4094 polygons - which is considered as almost zero for a decent 3D file of this kind. Meaning? The 3D model is not smooth at all - it can be smoothed later, while using proper 3D software, but the buyer originaly gets THIS! I find very difficult - almost impossible - an only 4094 polygons 3D model file, replicate so realistic these wrinkles & details on the elephant's skin. IMHO, the embossed and engraved details of the skin wrinkles are not actually sculpted - they look more like a result of an ovelapped image mesh effect, considering we are talking for an only 4094 polygons 3D model file ofcourse.

    Conclusion? Purchasing the specific $39 worth file and expecting to 3D print an object looking like the screenshots may include surprises. As addition, even if this specific 3D file with only 4096 polygons, could miraculously produce a highly detailed 1/48 scale elephant miniature, it would require approx $430 only for production cost with Shapeways as a solid item (the specific 3D model is offered as solid). On the other hand, hollowing the elephant, would require 3D software skills or hiring a 3D designer to get the job done with proper fees ofcourse.

    I remind you that user dom_b1709 asked this, for his own hobby purposes or possibly to offer it as a gift to his child. Considering the above, I simply adviced him to forget 3D file purchasing / converting / printing and simply visit his local toy store (or buy online from eBay) a much more detailed, much more durable and much more cheap 1/48 scale elephant for ONLY $5 price (!!!). I think, that I adviced him correct.

    Regards,
    Anyuta 3D
     
  9. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    It seems you missed subdivision modelling and displacement map concepts. 4094 becomes a lot in level 5; if each level makes 4 from 1, it goes beyond what SW allows; levels 4 & 5 will require a triangle reduction before uploading.
    [​IMG]
    Top right version is what one keeps (the other 3 are the steps to get there), the bottom versions are what the software generates itself.
     
  10. Anyuta3D
    Anyuta3D Well-Known Member
    @ stannum,

    I think we are saying same thing, but you missed what written before. Yes, the only 4094 polygons can become multi-milions later while using proper 3D software, but since the embossed and engraved details of the elephant's skin wrinkles are not present on the basic low-res file, you can only "strech" the surface and make it smoother without all these details as appeared on presentation screenshots. I remind you that user dom_b1709 asked if the original file could be 3D printed as is and what the cost per unit would be. Am I wrong?

    As seen into following screenshots, the 3D model could be edited with proper 3D software or by a hired 3D modeler, in order to subdivide the polygons and multiply them, but this could only result to make the surface smoother. Any embossed / engraved details (for example the elephant's skin wrinkles) cannot magicaly pop-up, because they are not present on the basic 3D file.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Could this 3D file get 3D printed? Under conditions, yes!
    • Untouched as found into original file with only the forementioned 4094 polygons resulting an object with THIS low-res look, OR
    • Edited with proper 3D software or by some skilled 3D modeler, to increase polygons and provide a smoother silky surface.
    In both cases, the elephant's skin wrinkles and any other embossed and engraved details will not be 3D printed, since they are not present on the original 3D file. The elephant's skin wrinkles, are not 3D designed - they are painted to look more nice on presentation screenshots.

    Conclusion: What is best for fellow user dom_b1709 who asked our advice? To purchase the specific $39 worth 3D file, hire a 3D modeler (for X amount of $) to convert it and later also pay (Y amount of $) for 3D printing process... or simply visit his local toy store and buy one for only $5?

    Regards,
    Anyuta 3D
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  11. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    The wrinkles are stored as a displacement map. So load the file and export to STL with the right options (subdivision and apply modifiers).
    [​IMG]Pretty old tech, only thing has changed is that computers now are powerful enough to do it a lot, and editing has become easier too for same reasons. Even games are doing it, as video cards got fast enough too and more programmable.
    [​IMG]
    That is GTX400 DX11 demo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  12. Anyuta3D
    Anyuta3D Well-Known Member
    @ stannum,

    If so, and as long as the wrinkles can be generated from the displacement map, you are correct and I am wrong. As for your personal advice to our fellow user dom_b1709 and his request? What do you recommend? Purchase the specific $39 worth 3D file and later try to 3D print it, or pass and try more conventional ways?

    Regards,
    Anyuta 3D
     
  13. stannum
    stannum Well-Known Member
    From first reply.