Announcing Bhda With Supports

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by bgeorgakas, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. bgeorgakas
    bgeorgakas Well-Known Member
    Hi All -

    We’re excited to announce the latest update to our material portfolio: Black Hi-Def Acrylate with Supports.

    We introduced Black Hi-Def Acrylate (BHDA) last March and saw immediate demand from our community, so much so that we had to quickly increase manufacturing capacity to fulfill orders. Once our community got their hands on the new material, we received many requests through various channels of feedback to offer an option with the supports left on the models. We initiated testing on this option late last year and are now ready to open this up to the broader community. We hope this gives our community more control over the final design and quality of their products.

    What are supports?

    In order to secure your model to the build platform and support overhangs, toothpick-like scaffolds are printed to support your structure. For normal Black High Definition Acrylate, these are carefully removed from your model before shipping. If you choose to purchase your model in Black High Definition Acrylate with Supports, we will ship your model with the supports still attached to your model. Below is a picture of what this will look like on your model.


    [​IMG]

    Achisia, Oathbound Gargoyle Outlaw by Ill Gotten Games


    How do I remove the supports?


    Here are some helpful tools to remove supports:

    • Tweezers
    • Wire snips
    • Exacto blade
    • Micro snips
    • Sculpting tools
    • Files and/or sand paper in order to flatten out stubs and support marks

    Warning-These tools are sharp so be careful! This material scratches in contact with metal so be cautious while removing support. Shapeways is not responsible for any damage you may do to your model during support removal.

    Here are some helpful tips:
    • Go slow and be cautious
    • Many supports can be removed by hand depending on the geometry
    • Start by trimming the supports down using wire snips
    • Your model may be hidden by supports. Be careful not to cut the part by accident. Trimming supports first helps you see your model better so that you don't cut it
    • Use tweezers to pull support posts off of the now visible model
    • If there are thin wires and/or walls, you may need to cut the supports using micro-snips instead of pulling with tweezers so you don't break your part
    • Be careful not to scrape your model with the tools as it may cause unwanted divots

    [​IMG]

    Elf Ranger (28mm scale) by Ill Gotten Games

    For more tips on how to post-process beyond removing the supports, take a look at our blog.


    Which models are eligible?

    You can only order BHDA with Supports for your own models.


    What are the guidelines?

    The material guidelines for the BHDA with Supports Pilot are the same as normal Black High Definition Acrylate.


    What's the refund policy?

    If you break your model while removing support material, it will not be eligible for a refund.

    If, however, you find that there is a defect on your model after removing supports (with the exception of damage caused by the removal including divots, scratches, etc.), you will still be eligible for a refund.

    We will refrain from printing or issuing a return for any models that do not meet our Content Policy guidelines.


    Are there any risks?


    If you choose Black High Definition Acrylate with Supports, we may not be able to do a thorough quality check before shipping your model. Supports often obstruct our view from the entire model. You may notice defects on your model that we could not detect with the supports still on the model.

    Please see our blog for more instructions on how to get the best quality from your products.
     
  2. Blair, this is great news! I work primarily with hobbyists and modelers. They are not only more than capable of but absolutely used to having to trim and sand the raw parts they receive from the manufacturers. They also tend to know the subject of the model pretty well and can tell which bits are important and which bits are just support material.

    Thank you!
     
    bgeorgakas likes this.
  3. bgeorgakas
    bgeorgakas Well-Known Member
  4. Model_Monkey
    Model_Monkey Well-Known Member
    I was disappointed to learn today that Bhda is unsuitable for sprued models. I had missed the comment stating this in the material description page. Two of my sprued product designs did pass Shapeways automated checks in Bhda but the orders were canceled today.

    Since this material otherwise appears to have been a very good choice for some kinds of designs, I think that the no-sprue requirement could be emphasized a bit more, hopefully avoiding order cancellations, hence this post.

    Some models may have geometry that mimics sprues, so designers ought to consider that.
     
  5. czhunter
    czhunter Well-Known Member
    To be honest, I've expected lower price for "makers material" B-HDA with supports then for "standard" B-HDA for customers ...

    Model Monkey> With sprues, its little bit more difficult. Some specific type can be used (to connect geometry, save "per part" money). But it needs more imagination then in FUD/FXD, WSF etc, where nearly any geometry is printable. You have to imagine printing direction (for model train bodies, its usually something like 30-40 degrees upwards) and when laid in this direction, there should be nothing "above" the sprue - so there is no need to build supports from the model upwards to hold another part of the model (the sprue in uploaded geometry is also "model").
    If you keep this rule, even the "sprued model" will be nearly every time printable.
     
  6. Strangefate
    Strangefate Member
    I believe you can only order your own models with supports, others won't be able to.
     
  7. taz_of_boyds
    taz_of_boyds Active Member
    Blair,

    Thanks for your post.

    I have a couple technical questions. In reference to the added supports:

    A) On the vertical supports; 1) what is the spacing, 2) what is the thicker diameter on the length of the shaft, 3) what is the terminal diameter where it attaches to the model, 4) what is the spacing along the shaft for the diagonal side supports?

    B) On the diagonal side supports; 1) what is their diameter, 2) what is the angle formed from the vertical or horizontal?

    The reason for these questions is that I suspect for some things I would print, I would want to control where some of the supports attach. I would also want to control which way is up during printing. I understand the principals of materials and gravity involved. The photos of printed models with supports attached is very informative.

    Thanks ever so much!
    Charles Sloane
     
  8. Gkolpi
    Gkolpi Member
    This is interesting...just curious...why would anyone want to keep the supports on and have it sent to them that way?
     
  9. taz_of_boyds
    taz_of_boyds Active Member
    Baba,

    For me, I was expecting some cost savings with Shapeways in exchange for my sweat equity. :)

    All the best,
    Charles Sloane
     
    chuckheron likes this.
  10. Gkolpi
    Gkolpi Member
    Ah...ok I see, thanks.
     
  11. Bill_B
    Bill_B Member
    I didn't see the answer to Baba Jaiys' question as to why I should want to leave the supports still attached. I like the results I'm getting, so if there is no cost advantage why do it?

    Thanks
     
  12. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    Guessing
    - you think you can do a better job as you can spend all weekend gnawing through them one by one
    - your model has a few important details that almost look like supports
    - you want to see where and how the supports are placed so you can design around them in subsequent models
     
  13. taz_of_boyds
    taz_of_boyds Active Member
    All,

    I suppose if multiple parts were printed connected by support structure and priced as one part instead of multiple price per part charges it would be nice. Though a similar effect would be achieved with your own sprues at a per cubic cm charge.

    @bgeorgakas Blair, it would be nice if you could get the tech details of the supports posted, thanks.

    All the best,
    Charles Sloane
     
  14. Bill_B
    Bill_B Member
    Mkroeker,
    OK that makes sense, thanks.
     
  15. Model_Monkey
    Model_Monkey Well-Known Member
    The orders for my designs that were connected by a sprue were all canceled, even after passing the auto checks. Bhda is just not a good material for sprued designs. The material description states sprues are problematic for this material.

    I'm now removing Bhda as a choice for any of my sprued designs.