Question for priming and painting polished Strong & Flexible plastic miniatures

Discussion in 'Finishing Techniques' started by Silvanus, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. Silvanus
    Silvanus Well-Known Member

    I would like to prime and paint human and creature miniatures which I will model, using the Shapeways product called "Purple Polished", and "Blue Polished",(most surely these two colors). So, is one of the finishes that Shapeways provides for Strong & Flexible plastic (nylon, I think).

    I have several reasons why I want to use this material, specifically their already polished and dyed versions (one of the reasons is some of the figures I might want to sell them unpainted, with its default color). I know that FUD would be better for tabletop games miniatures, but is kind of an experiment I'm wanting to make here, I have too long to explain reasons to give it a try, pushing the limits of the material and knowing I cannot detail much in the modeling stage, but leave quite of the detailing to good old painting techniques, or just do a more simplistic design.

    But I have several concerns. So, what I gathered from many forums posts (maybe some too old), is that it is safe to prime with an acrylic primer a WSF non polished,(while am wanting to do it over shapeway's polished and dyed ones) and in my little town I only have access to Vallejo's primer. So...

    1) Is ok and safe to prime(Vallejo's) an already Shapeway's polished and dyed figure? Would it attach to the surface? I would paint with Vallejo's acrylics after doing that.

    2) The idea, while not for mass production, is for each miniature to be extensively used by gamers. Not just to become a decorative object. Would this last without loosing the paint though the years ? I guess anyone purchasing 3D printed products knows they're not everything-proof as would be an industrial produced piece, but even so, I would prefer a nice endurance, at least a pair of years...

    3) Also, it does not seem that the paint will do any chemical reaction(producing smells, toxicity, etc) with the dye from Shapeways, or the plastic itself. But I care for the health of those using the figures, so, would it will be safe for intensive skin touch (as used in any tabletop game) ? Common sense tells me both the primer and the paintings from Vallejo, specific products for miniatures, are supposed to be safe for contant skin touch. I am only wondering about the combination of both and the S&F plastic and whatever the product used by Shapeways for polish and dye.

    Thnak you!

     
  2. CybranKNight
    CybranKNight Well-Known Member
    I haven't done a lot of painting with the Strong and Flexible but honestly I've not had to do anything special for them, I also used Vallejo Primer brushed on and then just painted as normal over that.

    As far as protecting the paint afterwards you'd usually seal the models with something like Testors Dull Kote. I've been using a spray can of Krylon Matte Coat but in the future I want to experiment using Future Floor Polish with a Tamiya Flat base added so that it's not a gloss finish anymore and applying that with an Airbrush.
     
  3. Silvanus
    Silvanus Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much ! Taking good note of those advices, it seems pretty doable and easy to do. :)

     
  4. Baywing
    Baywing Member
    Be careful mixing floor polish and Tamiya. Just because they are both acrylics doesn't mean they play well together. I shoot mostly PollyScale (at least until my stocks run out) and have tried the Tamiya. I tried mixing the two for a custom color and it was a disaster. The resultant goo took hours to clean up, thankfully I found the problem before I loaded it into the airbrush. Always try a test first. ModelMaster took over some of the PollyScale line, I think they still make the gloss and flat. Use the Aztec thinner for airbrushing, I find more thinner seems to give a more even gloss and a more even flat finish. It's water clean up and doesn't have much odor. Highly recommended!
     
  5. CybranKNight
    CybranKNight Well-Known Member
    Future is used as a sealant, not an additive for paints. The Tamiya Flat base is only to give it a Matte Finish instead of the Gloss it normally is.
     
  6. Silvanus
    Silvanus Well-Known Member
    Very interesting, thank you very much, both of you. I think at least in first figures I will keep it very simple (primer, painting and sealing), then perhaps I'll may go for a more gloss or matte finish. In that matter, I have found some people prefer matte, (as the mini seems like more "new" to them), others prefer matte.

    ( I have only painted directly over baked terracota,(sometimes over wood) and liked both the varnished glossy finish as well as a more matte solution.)

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
  7. Baywing
    Baywing Member
    You appear to be talking about adding Tamiya Flat Base to Future Floor polish and spraying the mixture. Thus my cautions about mixing 2 different acrylic products. Just trying to save you some possible grief. The example I gave is supposed to illustrate that two different acrylic liquids can result in a mess when mixed, the fact they had pigment is irrelevant.
     
  8. Roolz
    Roolz Well-Known Member
    SLS nylon (shapeways' "strong flexible") paints almost like any regular injected plastic miniature.

    The main thing to keep in mind is to wash the White Strong Flexible (toothbrush + soapy water) before priming, to get rid of residual powder.
    The polished versions have much less residual powder (if any) so washing is typically not necessary.

    Then some primer and you're good to go (I use spray primer, it's much faster, but brush-on works too).
    If the parts are handled frequently, you should varnish them, just like any regular miniature (I use spray varnish for the same reason as above).

    PS:
    "Strong flexible" is definitely not detailed enough for 28/32mm gaming miniatures, and the porosity & surface finish makes painting tiny details quite hard... You should go for Frosted Ultra Detail. Just my 2cts.
    And also, I don't see the point of dyed "strong flexible" if you prime/paint it after.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  9. Silvanus
    Silvanus Well-Known Member


    Thank you very much, Roolz, that was extremely helpful. The point on ordering the dyed version is because I was mainly focusing on the the dyed S&F to deliver as a final product, without being painted so that could be ordered directly by the customer, who possibly would order several colors as for doing game factions, and would be ready for its use, but still, have an option myself to order some copies and paint one or more, just for having a top quality pic to show, for better marketing (always leaving very clear that'd be not the delivered finishing). Besides, also some gamers might want to paint their minis by themselves. Indeed, a lot do. I actually know about the low level of detail and porosity of the material,(but sincerely, thank you for warning me) but my idea was somehow going for a different style, non detailed, (is not easy to get a solid style this way, a convincing one to this target audience) or even, like is done in low poly models for 3D games (my job for many years), produce this low 3D detail base, and add this detail through very arduos painting, details can be simulated amazingly so, once received piece at my home. Not only would never compensate the hours against the cost which this specific product can have as a maximum (maybe between 7$ and 20$, as much), the main problem for me is all the shipping from my home towards the user, cost and reliability of the process instead of the convenience of leaving that all to Shapeways. So, it'd be a matter of forgetting about delivering a richly painted figure as a final product. A pity, I've got the skills for all that... :) . And the multi color sandstone is also low detail for a mini (I have created a figure for a customer), colors might not become very intense, and is fragile imho for a miniature for gamers (but ok for deco objects). Still, one day it will be possible. I'm more interested in it as a hobby, being a bit sincere to my own self, lol. There are much better ways to make money. :D

    You add several details of info I didn't have, which are precious to me. I did not know that even the polished and dyed version could have some powder, even if little... I care a lot about what is delivered to a customer (well, at least in my actual professional activity, which is not 3D printing, as anyone could guess ;) ). IMHO, and I might be very wrong, in the idea of selling it as consumer product, for gamers directly, not as a piece for sending a prototype for another company to make a mold or something, frosted or any other needing a cleaning...not sure how many final users would be ok having to clean a miniature, I'm just not sure about that. Still, frosted ultra detail seems the thing to choose for miniature prototypes. Anyway, these are just perceptions I have, is all I can count on, for now... (and your great advice)

    Thank you very much :)



     
  10. Roolz
    Roolz Well-Known Member
    You're welcome.

    More info :

    Washing parts in common practice when you paint miniatures. It's the very 1st thing that any miniature painter does (or should do), whatever if it's plastic injected, resin casted, metal, or 3D-printed. So it's not a problem IMO.

    Someone that orders a Coloured model will not paint it. So, no washing necessary.
    Someone who intends to paint a model will order White Strong Flexible (basic or polished) or Frosted Detail. And he will have no problem washing the part, because it's common practice.

    For what it's worth, I give washing recommendations in the description of my models for those who want to paint them (in a nutshell : soapy water for White Strong Flexible, acetone for Frosted Detail), and it doesn't seem to bother people who order them.
    You can check my shop for more details if you want (https://www.shapeways.com/shops/pmg). My various models in the "Mice & Mystics" section are a good example.
     
  11. mike962
    mike962 Active Member
    Just butting in here, you recommend acetone for cleaning Frosted Ultra Detail? Any precautions? And will the acetone help remove residual wax?
     
  12. Roolz
    Roolz Well-Known Member
    Quoted from one of my model's description :
    " - With Frosted Detail/Ultra Detail only : I recommend to wash the model, to remove any remaining wax. Approx. 3 minutes in acetone (or approx. 30 minutes in denaturated alcohol), rub gently with a toothbrush, rinse with water. Follow the handling precautions of these products !"
    I personally prefer acetone, it's more efficient.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  13. mike962
    mike962 Active Member
    Thank you! Is there any concern leaving the model in the acetone for longer durations than 3 minutes? Just trying to get a read on how stable the material really is; don't want to stumble into an expensive mistake.
     
  14. Roolz
    Roolz Well-Known Member
    3 minutes in acetone is conservative for FUD/FXD resin, from my experience.
    It can stand much longer, but it totally depends on the models' geometry (thin walls, thin wires, etc). I've forgotten fairly thick FUD models in acetone for 1+ hour without any damage or warping. But 3 minutes is generally sufficient. If there is still remaining wax after a 3 min bath+brushing (and if the model has not warped), I just repeat the process until I'm satisfied.
     
  15. ecs_norway
    ecs_norway Well-Known Member
    What would you recommend for washing WSF models? I've tried dish soap so far and had very little difference from working right out of the package.
     
  16. NoahLI
    NoahLI Well-Known Member
    for WSF I air blast everything first out of package, clean crevices and seams with dental tools. small parts I run in a small ultrasonic cleaner a few passes with just water. they go for about 30$ on amazon. useful for more than just cleaning models. I used to prime everything, but next time I'll probably go straight to acrylic paint without priming. Generous thin undercoats and let it soak in.
     
  17. ProStarRC
    ProStarRC Member
    Krylon fusion clear works great after dye
     
  18. Drew92
    Drew92 Member
    Which brand of spray primer?
     
  19. Roolz, I ordered your Mayan worker tokens for Tzlolkin in various colors of strong/flexible polished; I had planned to add a "wash" to these to make the details really pop - any precautions I should consider before doing so? Obviously I won't prime them as I want the underlying color still, but would like the additional "pop" (shadows) to the details that a wash can often bring.

    Thanks in advance for any advice!

     
  20. Roolz
    Roolz Well-Known Member