Announcement: Product Variants Is Here!

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by katkinkead, Aug 31, 2016.

  1. Hi,
    fantastic - I need this tool too! Cause entering every single price cost a lot of design time ;-)
    Please add a "fixed base price" + " percentage of the material cost" for me too.

    @JesusGutierrez
    All Pictures cause trouble:
    1. every render was loading still if you just want to look one size.
    2. If the customer click a other thumb with the same material the size and price is changing -
    If the cusomer had choosen the correct ringsize on top right maybe the customer order a wrong size cause he clicked pictures in the thumbnailbar
    3. to show all renders and all 360 3d files spam the thumbnailbar
    Solution: Please just show and load the thumbs from the shown size - when the size is changing load this pictures on demand please

    @Shapeways
    - Every product I change to Variants got a product reference code in the tab name - could you please change that?
    - Please let us enter a other size file once for all materials - it make no sence to me to enter the same file for every single material again and again.
    - May be you could overthink the hole variants tool and split it in 2 tools
    1. "variants" for real produkt changes
    2. "Scale" for exact same file at all sizes and materials


    Sorry - but I had to say that variants is not the time saving, customer friendly, inovative Designer tool I have asked 4,5 years ago. I still think a well thought out %-scale -tool for the customers would be much more inovativ!



    Thx
    kind regards
    Stephan
     
  2. avantverite
    avantverite Member
    Help us resolve issues with tool on Shapeways

    Hello @hunter_yaw @Andrewsimonthomas

    After taking a closer look, we are unable to use the recently launched product variants tool for rings.

    ------Use the feedback we provided you below to update your site and try launching again.

    If you have questions or concerns contact us at:
    @avantverite. We're happy to talk about these rejected tools before you update them.

    Tool: Product Variants - Ring sizes

    Models affect: All Rings

    Materials affected: All

    Here are some details to help you resolve this issue:

    Reason: Mismatch US / EU sizes

    Description : The US ring sizes don't seem to match the calculation sited here of international standard ISO 8653 by @Roolz and re-outlined by @StephanFriedrich . Using the calculation supplied.

    Find additional information in the attached image.

    To be able to setup (and continue to sell and satisfy the new guidelines for jewelry curation) your site needs to update.

    We know you've already put a lot of time and effort in creating this addition to the site. If we can help in any way email us at: @avantverite

    Kind Regards,

    The avantverite team
    @avantverite


    I'll stop joking around now. I've been getting a lot of models rejected of recent :) In all seriousness, here attached below is a tabulation of those differences. Using the calculation and the site (Wikipedia) values. See what you guys (and girls) can do about it. Wikipedia incidentally is made to change, if you guys so wish.

    But please let us know if you are going to stand by these original (slightly out, refer to far right % column) figures. Or change them to be more precise. For the remodeling, uploading, re-linking and tweaking etc will take a while and I would rather not launch on something that could change soon.

    Plus thank you very much for getting around to giving variants a stab as it is much appreciated and otherwise looks fantastic.

    avantverite


    RING SIZES Shape Variation 260916.jpg
     
  3. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    Another thing for users to be mindful of. Not necessarily a good or bad thing. When you select a variant on the product page the file name of that variant shows up in the "What's in the box" box. The individual file names may be different than the name of the top level product that contains all the variants. So be careful to not name variant files with unfortunate names, and you might want to put some thought into having the top level product container have some relation to the individual file names.

    For example I might call the top level product holding the variants something like "Awesome Ring" but an individual ring model variant might be called something like "Awesome Ring Size 10". This also helps to make the top level display short and sweet and if the variants have long titles to define variations the long titles won't be cluttering the title names in your shop view.
     
  4. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    Shouldn't the scales option have some scales larger than 1:12? In particular 1:1 would make sense if someone wants an actual size model. This would also let people start with a 1:1 model and then scale it down at the request of a customer and add the new smaller size as a variant.
     
  5. patmat2350
    patmat2350 Well-Known Member
    No wait, it only goes to 1:12?!
    I regularly deal with models in 1:8 and 1:6 scales... the latter is GI Joe scale, and many dolls.

    I'm still waiting to see free-form variants... I have a page full of parts sized by fractional inch tube sizes, I can't use the current Variants selections for it all.
     
  6. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    I still don't understand the officially sanctioned method of starting with one variant model and converting it to the controlling top level variant product, as opposed to uploading a "dummy" model and adding all the model variants to it. The official instructions follow the 1st method and I prefer the second at the present time. I assume that my choice will eventually come back to bite me in the butt.

    In another sense I don't really understand why any model needs to be converted to be the variant "container." It seems like it would make more sense to have a button (similar to upload a model) that only creates a product variant container, and you put all your variant models into the container. The container wouldn't be sitting in your "my models" list because it really isn't a model as such. It only needs to be a product in the inventory list.

    And from wikipedia some info about scales between 1:1 and 1:12.

    scales1to10.jpg

    Another long range cool whiz-bang thing would be if you could upload a full size 1:1 model into a variant container. Instead of only being able to upload other scaled models and adding them as a variants perhaps the container could have an option generate a scaled model simply by selecting a new scale size or entering a scaling number. The system would then generate a straight scaled model, add it to the my models list, and add it as a variant in the variant container. The shop owner would then only need to add pricing and material info. Again long range but it creates a quick and easy path for a store owner to add a scaled model at the request of a customer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  7. Hi,
    I have done a ring of mine today in variants - first in 9 sizes and 13 materials.
    It cost me over 2,5 hours of my time!
    That is caused by entering every file 9 times at 13 materials to the correct size (117 ) (like written above: make no sence to me!) and entering 9x13 prices - yes I need to enter 117 prices cause there is no better solution ( like observed by Likesyrup ).

    I got 85 rings which I would like to offer in minimum 5 sizes and 8 materials.
    If the variant tool isn't working better for the designers it costs us much of time which we are loosing for design new products! In my case it would cost me nearly 75 hours just to enter the file for the sizes and the price for them!
    There isn't calculated the resizing and upload time which will cost my several hours too. ( was not neccesary if the was a well working scale function at shapeways ;-)

    Is shapeways planing to update the tool - like we all wrote here in the forum?
    I had to ask cause since lounching shapeways did no changes at the tool - even when several Designers got much critic and very good update suggestions?!
    Please - we need a longer filename window to control if we have choosen the correct file after entering about 117 file names even at the "Edit attached model" for our longer names - Thanks!

    Sorry - but why we got no comments with approach at most of the comments here in the forum, is our critic reaches the correct cantact to do an update?



    kind regards
    Stephan
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
  8. woody64
    woody64 Well-Known Member
    Yes I've seen it recently by accident. I've added Acrylate and added my version of the Acrylate design. Seems to work:

    1) An old failure of the search interface makes troubles: Searching for "5 x" which is indeed my naming convention doesn't work. To find such named items you need to enter "5x"

    Seems I need to deal with variants to understand how I can use it. But was confused then by who is the master and how to setup it best.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
    HenrikRydberg likes this.
  9. Okay, I need help with this. I tried to enable variants since I have made a second version of a model based on customer feedback. I want to leave the first available, but also the modified as a variant. The problem I'm having is that I can't seem to figure out how to upload the second file to the listing so that both are there. Do I need to create a new listing for the second file almost identical to the first and then link them? It would be easier if I could just upload it on the edit page for the first item.
     
  10. MrNibbles
    MrNibbles Well-Known Member
    You need to upload your revision as a new product. Then link it as a variant to the first product. A slight problem here is that there is no "revision" class. You could perhaps use "size" as a variant class, maybe calling the original version "extra small" and the first revision "small" and then explaining what you've done in the product description. Maybe another existing class makes more sense. You can't define your own variant classes yet so it might be confusing to the casual shopper. I think in your case it's easier to just leave the revision as a separate product and html link to it in the original version product description letting people know an improved version is available.
     
  11. woody64
    woody64 Well-Known Member
    The same as ever. For everybody where the predefines values are fitting designer will use it, for the others give the freedom of having their own since they won't ever fit in your scheme
     
  12. davidae
    davidae Member
    Im finally ready to create a shapeways shop and thanks to the new bulk upload feature I was able to upload my 168 models for 14 rings with 12 sizes each one. Was pleased to learn about the variant option only to find how incomplete it feels today and your post explains very well whats wrong with it.

    If I have so many sizes and I want to change the model of each size then I have to manually click on each one of the checking boxes of every material in the same size section that I want just to change them all to the same model. Why theres not a checking box for ALL the materials in the same Size?[​IMG]


    I have 14 rings each one with 12 sizes and 15 materials for each one them so this would take a lot of time to do manually like its right now.
     
    StephanFriedrich likes this.
  13. woody64
    woody64 Well-Known Member
    Welcome. Shapeways has a great offer in terms of Shops, ordering, producing, materials, costs ....

    What I'm bitter missing for years now is a proper shop handling and when they do changes that somebody reviews the workflow from designers/shop owners point of view. Sometimes that results in a really bad architecture or solution which causes on shop owners/designer side a lot of work, mainly clicks through windows fields, ....

    And if asking for change they seem to get lost in the forums or somewhere on the way to release management.
    On the one hand they are releasing a lot of new fancy stuff but on the other hand it seems then ending without doing the necessary steps to make it really useable for us (let's see how that develops with variants ..)
    (examples are:
    - my model searching => take a look on the search error in for months now hindering to find the proper models for variants with troubles;
    - markup management, which will be fun with variants too
    - customization, have not personally invested with variants so far. But placements, number of items you can add (ever discussed that name and date will be a very common customization topic)
    - mymodel link to product page, which results now with variants in even more clicks (was there but was lost in a change, I think it's simple a programing mistake, but nobody cares for weeks now to make a simple 1 minute change)
    - .....

    :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::(:(:(:(:(:(:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:o_Oo_Oo_Oo_O :eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Woody64

    P.s.: sorry but need to get rid of my frustration with this from time to time ....
    Already mentioned it. Every time I want to work intensively with it I run in tons of failures or boring handling on the user interface. (Will raise another topic in some minutes, which costs me time and SW proper useable results)
     
    StephanFriedrich likes this.
  14. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    Hey @woody64 ... while I too would like the link you mention, the reason there is no link from My Models to the Product page is that Variants were being developed. If a single model is on multiple variants, then a single link could not decide where to go. (it does make a lot of sense to have it on a non-variant model)

    On any model that is involved on a variant, the link would have to become a dropdown list, which requires more than "a 1 minute change".

    Variants turned a one-to-one relationship into a many-to-many relationship.. extra coding is involved.
     
  15. woody64
    woody64 Well-Known Member
    Yes I know:

    1. But in general the 1:N relationship is from one "product" to several different models (source 3d meshes). In "My Models" you are starting at the "model" level which leads in general to one "product = selling object".

    Example: You are at "Cufflink XL size" and the "product" is (Cufflink). So in general from that side it should be 1:1.
    The 1:N is in Cufflink : { "Cufflink XL size ", "Cufflink L size", "Cufflink M size", .... }.

    If coded correctly in an object oriented way, still a one liner: myModel->parentProducts()[0]->httpLink()

    Still it would be possible that one "model" is assigned to more then one "product". Need to think over if that may make any sense (did not spend to much time on variants yet). Then you are at the list option.

    2. But the more important argument is: Who is using variants. The majority of the people don't use it yet and will not use it in the future.

    Woody64

    P.S.: Maybe my misunderstanding is coming from my usage. I use variants for different models caused by different design rules for different materials.

    Product.LegoHat = { Model.LegoHat for pWSF, Model.LegoHat for Acrylate, ...}
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  16. mkroeker
    mkroeker Well-Known Member
    I wonder if "the system" already "knows" when there is only one model to a product (could be a communication problem between web frontend and database backend) and could provide a direct link to the Edit page - for anything that is not available in variants, the extra "Edit product with this model" is just a nuisance.
     
  17. I recently changed to the new variants option for alternative scales. I used the Merge Products option to transfer information from models in other scales. However, I have Shop Sections for each scale. Before using variants each Shop Section showed the correct model with the correct price in a certain scale (eg: 1:160). Since switching to using variants , all Shop Sections are now listed on the default model only. This means that when clicking on a Shop Section, the model is always shown in its default scale and price. Is there a way to have the model shown in the correct scale when using Shop Sections?
     
  18. stonysmith
    stonysmith Well-Known Member Moderator
    I'm with you on this one.. I want to offer a single "Caboose", with the different Scales available as Variants of it. Unfortunately, I don't see this happening anytime soon, as it is rather complicated to code. Shop Sections and Variants just simply aren't the same subject (same thing in the database) and jamming them together is going to be tough.

    Variants works fine for people that see a cool looking ring and want to pick their size. We Model Train folks on the other hand want to browse only for stuff that "fits" them. It's sortof like having a buyer that only wants to view rings in the size of 6.5

    My challenge is that we're encouraged to provide pictures of the "finished product". StonyCan'tPaint (tm), so he's at the mercy of my patrons sending me photos. I don't know that it's realistic to show an image of a 1:220 model that is poorly painted (no offense) versus another in the same Variant at 1:87 (three times larger) that has an incredible paint job. If we are supposed to use the photos to set customer expectations.. how should we account for the HUGE difference in level of detail possible between items that are anywhere from 2 to 10 times larger? I could put the full compliment of rivets on my models in 1:48 scale.. at 1:220, the rivets can't even be seen with a microscope - they are smaller than the printer resolution limits.

    A Model Train buyer wants to shop primarily in their chosen scale. However, I do get a huge number of requests to enlarge various items. It'd be nice to be able to use Variants to show the shoppers what other sizes I already have for the model.

    If you take a look at my Shop, http://shpws.me/CsR at the top I added a selector where a buyer is encouraged to select their scale.. Those choices are simply a link to each Shop Section, and I rather rigorously ensure that every product is classified by scale.

    Yes, I want the option to for Variants to filter by the Shop Section. I just think it's going to take some time because of the complexity. And.. <grin> I'd much rather have some API improvements first.
     
  19. Dear shapies,

    please start to update the "Variants" tool first with just a simple enlargement of the space for model names at 2 places.
    It will be a very small issue for your coder at the development team - but it will a huge step to all dersigners at shapeways.
    Like written several times in the forum please enlage this 2 fields:
    "Edit Attached model" and
    "Edit Model File"

    It is very very stressful to figure out the correct attached models when you dont see the full name of the object name!
    This will be a pleasure to see that update. Thanks for inovation.


    Best
    regards Stephan
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Hi dear Shapies,


    there is a issue with the Digital Preview Thumbnails at my model "Thorsten 4 Rib - Ring"
    The thumnails wasn't loading complete. The page load a huge count of Digital previews!
    Only the prewies for 3 of the 10 variant sizes will loading - the rest of the thumbnails are missing - I checkeed on different browsers and systems!


    My system counts 80 MB data traffic when loading this page:
    https://www.shapeways.com/product/Y76N22P6U/thorsten-4-rib-ring?optionId=60962029
    This is caused by variants render pic spam problem!
    I got 10 Variant ring sizes in 25 materials = 250 digital preview renders - 225 are not neccessary cause ALL my ring Designs are EXACTLY the same! (see same material renders for all sizes)


    Please think it over if every material from every size needs a new render!
    Maybe it will be better to improove "varians" and called it "sizes" cause of:
    1. your variants tool only supports sizes
    2. real variants aren't possible with "variants" ( like colors or any other real personl variants some designers like to sell)
    3. a very important reason is that no Customer (even me) don't expect any design changing an a other Ringsize!!!

    So please call it sizes and do only 1 render for all (10) sizes of 1 material - so your system got much less traffic and the pages will loading correctly and in a short time.

    PLUS : please let us do only ONE upload of the correct ringsize - without checkboxing manually ( 25 in this case 10 times = 250 checkboxing AND uncheckboxing )

    Even the correct description of the sizes is missing at all the Preview render pics - so no customer could see and no designer could say the correct Ringsize below the preview render.



    kind regards
    Stephan
     

    Attached Files: