http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php Shapeways: Bring your creativity to life in 3D http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28535&th=5438#msg_28535

3x3x3 Twisty Puzzle (aka Rubiks Cube)

Large image here

The spacing (as printed) between the parts is 0.1mm - the spaces are filled with the wax support material. Here's a few of the methods/products I have tried in an attempt to disolve out the wax and free up the parts.

Hot water - the wax melted out, but some of the parts were fused and one part broke - I tried two cubes out using this method, the second broke too.

Alcohol hand sanitiser - this product contains 62% ethanol and seemed to affect both the wax and plastic resulting in some parts stuck together, the central spindles gone soft and broken.

Penetrating oil (WD40 etc) - partial success, but still one of the central spindles broke.

Mineral/white spirit - disolves the wax ok, but also softens the plastic leading to breakage and failure.

Ear Wax Remover - still soaking in this - the remover is quite a viscous fluid at room temperature, and thins qute readily with a bit of heat - this product may work out ok if the temperature can be kept 10-15 celcius above roome temperature (think body heat)

Weak NaOH soultion (caustic soda/lye) - still soaking in this - again this is looking promising

One of the main issues I have with the cubes are the spindles breaking - currently they are 0.7mm diameter - this maybe because I am not waiting long enough before attempting to move the parts.

Feel free to add ideas, share attempts, sucesses & failures.

Cheers,
Paul]]> stop4stuff 2011-06-03T07:34:07-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28537&th=5438#msg_28537 )

I was able to clean out 0.3 mm through holes in a few mini-Menger cubes. As one can imagine, there is a LOT of support stuck in the holes, the bags were all greasy etc.

I just put them in a jar with the water and soap, and stirred and shaked.
You can see all the wax dissolve a float to the top. Rinse and repeat.

After two runs the yellow was nearly gone and all holes were visible.

While not as brittle as your designs, I can recommend it for cleaning holes.
]]> virtox 2011-06-03T08:37:34-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28538&th=5438#msg_28538 I have had good success with Acetone, which was recommended by the guys at Fineline Prototyping (who also use materials by 3D-Systems).
It does not seem to affect the FUD and resolves the wax. Just be careful with the stuff and use gloves.

Cheers,

Jeroen]]> Spoors 2011-06-03T09:41:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28540&th=5438#msg_28540

Cheers,
Paul]]> stop4stuff 2011-06-03T10:12:20-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28598&th=5438#msg_28598
Also, I am curious, with the acetone, do you just soak the object in it, or use a q-tip to just wipe away the parts that have the wax?

If you soak it, how long do you soak it for?]]> LincolnK 2011-06-04T16:54:09-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28641&th=5438#msg_28641
Cheers,

Jeroen]]> Spoors 2011-06-06T06:56:50-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28801&th=5438#msg_28801
I've had items in it sitting in near boiling water for 40 mins at a time without problems while I've been dyeing it.

Tom]]> tebee 2011-06-09T05:32:25-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28810&th=5438#msg_28810
I popped a cube in a jar of just boiled water and microwaved it, keeping the water boilng for 5 minutes - after cooling some parts are still solidly joined by wax, and the plastic has gone from transparent to a milky white.

Of all of the things I've tried so far, ear wax remover is ahead, but it does need to be kept at a constsant temperature to thin enough to work on the wax, and yes it has been days now that one cube has been in the remover.

Diluted household amonia solution didn't do much.

I still have yet to try acetone/nail varnish remover.

]]> stop4stuff 2011-06-09T13:03:54-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28812&th=5438#msg_28812
Have you tried mechanical means, like an ultrasonic cleaner? I've got one and find it wonderful for crud out of places you can't easily get to. Look for a friendly dental lab or jeweler near you as they almost certainly have one. ]]> tebee 2011-06-09T13:23:34-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28817&th=5438#msg_28817 ]]> Spoors 2011-06-09T14:14:31-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28818&th=5438#msg_28818
Will see how it goes.

]]> stop4stuff 2011-06-09T14:34:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28854&th=5438#msg_28854 level-4 menger cube. I dipped it during a couple of hours, but only some superficial holes were cleaned.

Now I'm trying again with Tetrachloroethylene (also called Perchloroethylene), used in dry cleaning of fabrics and to degrease metal parts. The first time I had previously dipped the model in dish soap, and only checked the cleanness of the holes when the model was wet, although I think this method didn't go deep. I'm saying all of this because after using Tetrachloroethylene, the holes seemed uncleaned when wet, but when dried the wax was missing (0.3mm holes). Now FUD looks white, but not transparent, although maybe the complexity of the Menger model makes difficult to see any transparency. I could check this with a simpler FD model that shows some transparency.

Now for the second try I'm using the model used for the nail varmish remover test. I have also diluted the tetrachloroethylene in water, although this substance has low solubility and sinks to the bottom. In the first try I stirred the mix a couple of times during 2-3 hours. In this second try I've stirred once and I'll check the result after 8-10 hours (left at home).]]> jasolo 2011-06-10T07:45:30-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28878&th=5438#msg_28878 jasolo 2011-06-10T18:17:57-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28879&th=5438#msg_28879

I kept checking a cube in the nail varnish remover, after 24 hours, there was still wax between about a 1/3rd of the parts, the last time I lifted the cube out, all the bits that were free of wax fell apart.

Ear wax remover is still looking good, even though it is slow.

]]> stop4stuff 2011-06-10T19:07:55-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=28897&th=5438#msg_28897 ]]> SIXTHSCALE 2011-06-11T15:19:38-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=29060&th=5438#msg_29060
Tried earwax remover (peanut oil with alcohol), and dunked the thing in hot water, the oil that came up to the surface was "yellowy", so some wax had been removed. After repeated dunking in boiling water, alcohol, peroxide and anything else I had to hand in various combinations, the holes in my weeny 4-G Menger sponge have opened up, but the crinkly fractal snowflake sponge is still very yellow. I'll have to give acetone a go.

To be fair, the snowflake sponge is probably a worst-case scanario, the 3cm 4-Gen Menger sponge was pretty pale (just a little smelly), but the snowflake sponge was almost lemon-yellow. That was with about two hundred thousand faces, most at right-angles to their neighbours, and all sorts of voids with multiple pinhole openings, so the surface area and surface tension for coatings on it must be horrendous
I'm sure that normal models are fine in FUD. Actually, I don't mind the smallest holes not all being totally clear (they're so small that it's difficult for people to tell), I'm more interested in getting rid of the colour and the odour with these "jaggy" fractal shapes.

Sharpness and crispness of detail with FUD is really excellent, btw. ]]> ErkDemon 2011-06-15T00:03:17-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=29061&th=5438#msg_29061 ]]> SIXTHSCALE 2011-06-15T00:51:48-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=29189&th=5438#msg_29189 ErkDemon wrote on Wed, 15 June 2011 00:03

To be fair, the snowflake sponge is probably a worst-case scanario, the 3cm 4-Gen Menger sponge was pretty pale (just a little smelly), but the snowflake sponge was almost lemon-yellow.

I had forgotten to post an image after the cleaning with tetrachloroethylene. As I said, the wax disappeared but the material got white on the surface (the holes are 0.3mm wide). The whitening isn't a problem in this model, so many small details makes difficult to see any transparency, but for other models will be surely a problem and tetrachloroethylene has been classified as probably carcinogenic to humans.

]]> jasolo 2011-06-16T19:30:45-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=29505&th=5438#msg_29505
- The first one is the slowest and consists of putting the FUD model over a paper on a warm ambient (over the router or through the warm air expelled by the computer's power supply fan). The liquified wax gets trapped on the paper, so it must be replaced by a new clean one periodically. After several hours only some clean holes were visible so this method requires a lot of time but is the less aggressive.

- The second one is quicker and uses white spirit (Stoddard solvent), the solvent used in painting. All the holes got clean and the material didn't got white as happened with tetrachloroethylene, but I'm not sure if it affects in another way the surface of FUD/FD objects (no more FD models at hand). Could anyone test white spirit on flat and curved surfaces?.]]> jasolo 2011-06-22T21:55:02-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=30235&th=5438#msg_30235 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=89 44&private=0. You can see there is a little trail of white beneath each column of bolt heads where the was has supported the surface detail. Sometimes if you run your finger nail over the model surface you can feel that the white part is slightly raised.
The only way I have found to deal with it is by abrasion, either with a glass brush or by burnishing the surface with a wooden stick.

]]> BillBedford 2011-07-05T16:19:19-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=30853&th=5438#msg_30853
It seems to me that the method that would likely be used in a full production environment would either be a solvent specifically formulated for the support wax, or a heating proccess at a controlled temperature to melt the wax from the part.

Now without knowing the specific formulation of the support wax our best bet would be to do the baking method. The difficulty comes with the fact that most ovens aren't designed to heat slowly over a long period of time.

And then it hit me one morning, every one of us has a low temperature, slow heating oven. Our car dashboard.

So I tossed my waxy parts onto a shop towel on my dashboard one morning after I got to work. By lunchtime most of the wax had melted into the towel. I shuffled the parts a bit to free some support wax that wasn't draining properly and by the time my workday was over, a good 80-90% of the yellow wax was gone.

The parts were a bit softer while warm, but returned to normal once cool.

Now my parts didn't have a whole lot of nooks and crannies so YMMV, but with proper orientation for wax drainage this method -should- work for most designs.

The main concern would be to keep the parts from getting -too- hot and warping, but just cracking your car window open a bit can help mitigate the higher temperatures.]]> merana33 2011-07-14T13:23:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=30899&th=5438#msg_30899

Large image here

It seems that there are a variety of methods that work getting the wax out of FUD that are mainly size dependant.

This thread is good resource!

Hey ho, on with the fun FUD

]]> stop4stuff 2011-07-15T08:38:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=30905&th=5438#msg_30905 minimaker 2011-07-15T09:48:59-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=31551&th=5438#msg_31551 dhammond 2011-07-26T05:50:15-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=32749&th=5438#msg_32749
The bolt diameter will be about 6mm, and length about 10mm. Based on the comments in this thread, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get all the wax out from between the threads prior to unscrewing the assembly, but will it be possible to use the wax as a lube to facilitate the removal process?

]]> denali3ddesign 2011-08-15T18:31:35-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=32751&th=5438#msg_32751 Magic 2011-08-15T18:54:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=32763&th=5438#msg_32763
Actually, I described part of the design incorrectly - it is not meant to be taken out for cleaning or anything, but just tightened down the final little bit.

Make sense?

]]> denali3ddesign 2011-08-15T22:49:38-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=32787&th=5438#msg_32787 Printing in place a part that can be removed is just adding extra risks to the print...
But if it's a custumer request... ]]> Magic 2011-08-16T08:18:09-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=32844&th=5438#msg_32844
]]> denali3ddesign 2011-08-17T13:46:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33031&th=5438#msg_33031
What we/Shapeways need is one of these puppies:

http://www.rapid-direction.com/product/3D-PJFIN/InVision-Pro Jet-3D-Finisher.html

I've tried hot water and fairy liquid dunking for several hours, but the model is still decidedly yellow and smelling of the lemony wax material (to my nose). I'm going to try the car/towel/dashboard idea tomorrow, assuming it's sunny ]]> JamieMcBride 2011-08-21T21:24:42-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33032&th=5438#msg_33032
Step 1: scrub nail varnish remover (acetone based) on with a stiff artist's paint brush.
Step 2: put a drop of washing up liquid in a glass with about 100ml water & nuke @ 450w for 1 min.
Step 3: repeat steps 1 & 2
Step 4: rinse really well under clean water.

Gloves and/or tweezers were used so as not to get skin oils on the cleaned model.

The little rubiks cubes never did work out, and I've yet to figure out a way of getting the wax out of enclosed spaces.


]]> stop4stuff 2011-08-21T21:36:59-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33033&th=5438#msg_33033 stannum 2011-08-21T21:51:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33034&th=5438#msg_33034
]]> BillBedford 2011-08-21T22:15:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33125&th=5438#msg_33125
Thank you very much for all these techniques!
Great to see a community working together to see what the best way is of getting rid of the support material / wax.

I do can tell you that we do not deliver any of those models with a lot of wax anymore!
If everything goes alright, you should get a wax free model.

Ohh btw, please smell your model! smells much nicer now

If not, please send an email to service@shapeways.com with a picture of your model, so we can complain at the printing department that they still delivered models with a lot of wax.

Do take in mind, this is only just yet for orders which are delivered since last week (or maybe 2 already)]]> Mitchell Jetten 2011-08-23T09:02:15-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33148&th=5438#msg_33148
Thanks for the update Mitchell. I was wondering whether the FUD wax situation would improve at the production end or whether it would be an issue to have fellow enthusiasts buy items with the wax, so this puts our minds at rest. My part came through in "The Rush" period a month or more back, so maybe the heating process wasn't quite in place to get models out of the door quicker (perfectly understandable). ]]> JamieMcBride 2011-08-23T13:58:50-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33208&th=5438#msg_33208
I received models yesterday that were coated in the yellow wax... Are you sure?]]> colleenjordan 2011-08-24T03:18:17-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33269&th=5438#msg_33269 Mitchell Jetten wrote on Tue, 23 August 2011 09:02

...
Ohh btw, please smell your model! smells much nicer now
...



Ana said in tonight's SW live that Baby Shampoo works a treat! (perhaps that's why it smells nicer )

]]> stop4stuff 2011-08-24T22:43:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33275&th=5438#msg_33275
I received a lot of models that were coated with a crystalline lemon yellow wax. I've tried soaking them in boiling water, and wiping them with a variety of solvents, like acetone. These techniques work okay. The acetone has worked the best, but still doesn't help out when the wax is stuck inside the model. The downside of this is its not perfect, and there's still yellow crud in inside my models, and I've just exposed myself to nasty chemicals that I wanted to avoid in the first place.]]> colleenjordan 2011-08-25T00:53:45-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33801&th=5438#msg_33801
just did the test with the putty oven and it works like a charm. I've got it at a constant 55 degrees centigrade and the wax melts nicely. Very easy to rub away in a few minutes. Think I found my method for wax removing.

Bye,
Ming-Hua]]> minimaker 2011-09-05T10:34:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33808&th=5438#msg_33808
I picked up an ultrasonic cleaner the other day and was testing that out with different detergents (Johnson's Baby Shampoo, JPL Sea Clean & ordinary wahing-up liquid), but the cleaner broke so I'm waiting on the replacement. The cleaner was able to get most of the yellow staining though.

]]> stop4stuff 2011-09-05T14:41:17-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33851&th=5438#msg_33851
* to keep hands soft.........

]]> BillBedford 2011-09-06T14:58:40-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33854&th=5438#msg_33854
So far, the ultrasonic cleaner is not doing much at all to the little cubes, and I don't expect them to get freed up, so redesign time for them
]]> stop4stuff 2011-09-06T15:11:54-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33864&th=5438#msg_33864
I don't know if it helps, but the poor man's putty oven is the traditional lightbulb. Those become fairly warm and can be used as an oven (my first portable oven was actually made using six lightbulbs from my bicycle and four AA batteries). So if you have a desklight you can put a part near the bulb to warm it. Be careful though since they become very warm. I'd not use more than 25 Watt.

Also, if you want me to test how well the oven works on one of your rubic cubes, contact me and we'll see if we can get that arranged.]]> minimaker 2011-09-06T16:29:02-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33870&th=5438#msg_33870 stannum 2011-09-06T17:46:12-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33873&th=5438#msg_33873
@mimimaker - the little rubiks cubes have had plenty of heat & the smallest of internal cavities become wax free, but there seems to be an issue with two of the center squares fusing to the central spindle on all of them - must be a print orientation thing.

]]> stop4stuff 2011-09-06T18:27:50-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33880&th=5438#msg_33880 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/minimaker/Mini%20scul pting-Tools/Hotplate_putty_oven/oven1.jpg I set the temperature but choosing the right voltage. And since I'm still using the prototype it does have a hole for a thermometer. That's how I can check the temperature.

The older version of this did have a lightbulb ( http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v490/minimaker/Mini%20scul pting-Tools/?action=view&current=ef93.jpg). But the temperature of this is far less easy to regulate. It was like Stop4stuff saus: touch the metal, too hot, turn off, turn on again after 5 minutes. Hehe, I'm so happy with the new design.

Note, these ovens were not made for wax removal but for curing epoxy putty. Wax is just another thing it seems to be useful for.]]> minimaker 2011-09-06T19:25:28-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33887&th=5438#msg_33887 mctrivia 2011-09-06T19:54:32-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33964&th=5438#msg_33964
Thanks for the info... with current lamp market, probably better to buy some ceramic resistors, maybe even a sensor so it is just a matter of calibrating a scale on a pot.]]> stannum 2011-09-07T20:12:24-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=33973&th=5438#msg_33973 minimaker 2011-09-07T22:25:20-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=38272&th=5438#msg_38272
I kept turning the part periodically for about 3 hours; the part got hot to the touch but not painfully hot. I'll follow up with a wash in acetone before painting.

]]> GWMT 2011-11-09T22:47:41-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=38286&th=5438#msg_38286
I am glad you are still alive and that your house didn't burn down.

That sounds like a very NOT safe way to extract the wax which I am assuming is probably flammable.

Lincoln
]]> LincolnK 2011-11-10T06:06:24-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=38312&th=5438#msg_38312
It runs on natural gas (so we still have heat when the electricity goes out) - there's no danger of fire. The combustion chamber is sealed off from the house air; cold house air comes in the bottom, gets warmed up around the chamber and rises out the top. You can hold your hand on the top and not get burned.

It's like setting the part in the sun on your car dashboard on a hot day with the windows closed. A toaster oven is more dangerous than a gas fireplace re: fire.]]> GWMT 2011-11-10T16:01:06-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=39270&th=5438#msg_39270 Giga Bread 2011-11-26T01:19:50-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=40695&th=5438#msg_40695 darthviper107 2011-12-23T16:47:31-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=40707&th=5438#msg_40707 Roy_Stevens 2011-12-23T21:40:04-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41007&th=5438#msg_41007 1st Happy New Year to all..


I just got a large order of FUD parts for the battleship. And of course they are full of wax.
So I was thinking what would cut oil/grease and is water soluble.
Then I remembered the oil spills and the animal rescue groups washing the birds and seals with Dawn dish washing liquid. So off to the store on New Years eve to get some.

Mixed a 50/50 solution Dawn and really hot water, filled the ultrasonic cleaner I got from Harbor Freight and ran them through the 3 minute cycle 7 or 8 times.

NO WAX left on the parts. And it did not turn the parts white like when I used Simple Green and water to clean the batch of parts.

Maybe I an on to something. Ok Back into the lab to continue the cleaning...( the kitchen table in my apartment. )

Still messing with the rock tumbler to polish up the parts but I need to get some more grit and experiment with that idea..


Bob]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T05:05:49-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41008&th=5438#msg_41008 stannum 2012-01-01T05:34:20-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41010&th=5438#msg_41010 With that in mind I wanted something a little less aggressive so I tried the Dawn.
I put in really hot water in the ultrasonic cleaner with the Dawn and let it do it thing for about 25 minutes. The ultrasonic cleaner heats the liquid up to a really hot temp after that long a time in the bath.
Rinsed the parts under hot water and let dry. So far things a looking wax free but I will have to have a good look tomorrow.


]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T06:41:49-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41022&th=5438#msg_41022 Here are pics of the dawn/water ultrasonic cleaner test from last night. Interesting results. Maybe there is a printing problem with the equipment or process. You can see the difference on the right parts group in the pic. There is a definite separation line half way up the side. Above the line I have a rough frost finish. Below the line is a translucent.
The parts on the left in the photo came out perfect. Translucent, no frosting what so ever.

So what is the variable that is causing this? Most of my other parts have the rough frost look which is going to have to be sanded somehow ( rock tumbler maybe ). Needless to say there seems to be a bug in the printing process that is causing this.

Pics to follow.

Bob

]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T19:00:43-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41023&th=5438#msg_41023
]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T19:02:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41024&th=5438#msg_41024
]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T19:03:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41025&th=5438#msg_41025 ]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T19:05:20-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41026&th=5438#msg_41026

]]> pumpjet 2012-01-01T19:07:48-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41027&th=5438#msg_41027 So what is the answer?
I don't know. There have been various solutions posted here, but none seem the total answer, and, of course, what action is taken will depend on the sort of finish that is needed. In general I would do the minimum possible. If the wax seems thick heating the piece on an absorbant surface may do the trick, as will washing in hot water. I've also heard that washing with Isopropyl alcohol, either in an ultrasonic bath or applied with a aerosol spray will work. I've been told of one company that had some success using two ultrasonic baths, the first with sunflower oil and the second with soapy water, but I have not been able to verify the results.
It is interesting to note that 3D Systems, who make these ProJet machines have nothing on their website about finishing this material. So maybe they don't know what the solution is.


]]> BillBedford 2012-01-01T20:45:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41036&th=5438#msg_41036 Roy_Stevens 2012-01-02T05:13:12-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41039&th=5438#msg_41039
Thanks for the heads up on the printing problem. I thought that something was messed up by the frosting being half way up the side of the parts enclosure. So it looks like I have 1 good usable set of parts and the rest of the orders are trashed. As in junk ! I have invested some hard earned cash into this and do not want to have to repeat the cash layout.
I will definitely be talking to somebody about this.

As this is the first exposure I have had with 3D printing from Shapeways I do not want to get all worked up when I order other parts that are FUD.


Bob]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T05:36:09-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41042&th=5438#msg_41042

]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T06:11:53-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41043&th=5438#msg_41043
]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T06:13:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41044&th=5438#msg_41044

]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T06:15:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41045&th=5438#msg_41045




]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T06:17:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41046&th=5438#msg_41046 darthviper107 2012-01-02T06:33:55-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41055&th=5438#msg_41055 before the pieces were subjected to the ultrasonic bath. Without 'as received' photos we can't tell what damage the ultrasonic did.]]> BillBedford 2012-01-02T12:29:52-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41059&th=5438#msg_41059 This would indicate that they are not being printed in a single print job. I got 2 shipments with 1 set of parts in each package. Then the larger order showed up. I am still awaiting for the last package to arrive this week. Will photograph them before cleaning for sure.
So it seems logical to assume that the printing parameters may change from 1 run of parts to the next. Maybe the Shapeways print team have more than 1 printer running FUD parts.]]> pumpjet 2012-01-02T13:14:43-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=41060&th=5438#msg_41060 Giga Bread 2012-01-02T13:21:24-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=43449&th=5438#msg_43449 ]]> Kaczor 2012-02-04T15:44:22-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=45630&th=5438#msg_45630 I found the MSDS for FUD.
Called the supplier, 3DSystems, and spoke to an applications engineer. He said an ultrasonic bath using corn oil heated to between 60 -70 C ( 140-158 F ) for about 10 -15 minutes will get all the wax that is left over from the build process off the model.
So i tried it and it does work. NOTE: oil does not dissipate heat as rapidly as water does so it was still extremely hot after the bath. Then an ultrasonic bath with Dawn dish washing soap and final rinse.

They do look good. He said the corn oil will bring back the translucence to the part. As my parts are already cleaned I will need to experiment with the heavy frosted parts have from the 1st batch of parts that I ordered.

VisiJet SR 200 Plastic is FUD. It is an acrylic material according to the app. engineer. He said there should be no problems with painting with acrylic paints ( my choice ).
So the next order gets a bath of corn oil when I get them.

Bob

]]> pumpjet 2012-03-17T23:52:52-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=45640&th=5438#msg_45640 Roy_Stevens 2012-03-18T05:11:40-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=46231&th=5438#msg_46231
I know a friend of mine that soaked his for 48 hours with no damage to small details. I soak mine for only about 10 minutes. Then I remove it and do a light brushing with an artist's brush and then return to the bath. I do that until I'm happy with it and this has been the easiest method I've found without heat or scrubbing.

Also, I've painted FUD treated in this way with acrylic paint with no issues. Have not tried solvent based paint.]]> AmericanArchetype 2012-03-31T03:53:04-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=46263&th=5438#msg_46263 FrankNScale wrote on Sat, 31 March 2012 03:53
I soak the part in a product called Bestine.


I tried the Bestine, and it worked quite well.. took driving all over town to find it.. finally found it (only) at Michael's. It comes in a metal can, and I would strongly advise that you only use it in a properly ventilated space. I put some of the Bestine in a small tupperware type container.. it didn't eat the container, but after 2 days it had all evaporated from the sealed container.]]> stonysmith 2012-03-31T23:59:00-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=46402&th=5438#msg_46402
We have a ProJet here at our shop and we use corn oil to clean out parts. It works great and the parts maintain a good surface finish and keep their "transparent" appearance. If you NEED to get rid of the oily residue you can clean the parts in with whatever cleaner you want but they all seem to leave the "frosting" you are seeing. ]]> sbruins 2012-04-03T17:53:50-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=47052&th=5438#msg_47052
While I didn't find Bestine, I browsed the cleaners and spotted Goo Gone and De-Solv-It Citrus.

De-Solve-It was more expensive (~9 bucks), but the label says it specifically removes wax, among others. As I was on a budget I saved this product for my next go.

Goo Gone was 3 bucks, so I picked one up.

The process took just minutes and resulted in perfectly clean, wax free model (with no discoloration/whitening), ready for paint. I'm surprised that Goo Gone has not been discussed before.

1. Rinse and brush away any large blobs of wax.
2. Using a toothbrush that has been sitting in hot water (which softens it's bristles), dip the brush and FUD part in Goo Gone and lightly scrub all surfaces 2-3 times. Rinse/swash the brush every so often to remove the removed wax so you don't just spread it around. Re-dip the brush in Goo Gone and continue.
3.Quickly rinse and brush again in warm-soapy water.

Done. ]]> Mark W 2012-04-16T07:42:16-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=47055&th=5438#msg_47055 ]]> stop4stuff 2012-04-16T07:56:51-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=47056&th=5438#msg_47056
Here's a painted (no primer), Goo Gone cleaned, model.
(Black is Polly Scale Acrylic, Red and Yellow is Testors Enamel)

]]> Mark W 2012-04-16T08:01:10-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=47151&th=5438#msg_47151 I was thinking of the post that mentions soap can contain Lanolin which can have effects on the FUD.

Bob]]> pumpjet 2012-04-18T13:01:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=47157&th=5438#msg_47157
]]> BillBedford 2012-04-18T14:01:48-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=48181&th=5438#msg_48181 CharGyse 2012-05-10T09:57:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49287&th=5438#msg_49287 but since my model is an open grid i guess leaving it in a hot space would cause the wax to melt and escape the grid, but I haven't ordered any FUD before so maybe it's not as easy as i imagine? ]]> nickdk 2012-06-01T16:11:23-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49301&th=5438#msg_49301 stonysmith 2012-06-01T18:05:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49302&th=5438#msg_49302 stonysmith wrote on Fri, 01 June 2012 18:05
If you live in the US and have a Michael's Hobby store nearby, Bestine is great for cleaning FUD


I'm in Denmark :S I haven't heard about Bestine, but what's the ingredients? Maybe they something similar here, but I think the biggest challenge is that I'll have 1 try only for this so the method needs to really work the first time.]]> nickdk 2012-06-01T18:33:35-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49336&th=5438#msg_49336 This link will help for info about Bestine.]]> stop4stuff 2012-06-02T19:14:35-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49337&th=5438#msg_49337 stop4stuff wrote on Sat, 02 June 2012 19:14
This link will help for info about Bestine.


Thank you for the hint!
I have searched for Bestine and can see it's not really available to me over here. But is the product so good that I should order something or, based on my explanation, would other methods be just as good for removing wax from such a grid structure?]]> nickdk 2012-06-02T19:20:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49340&th=5438#msg_49340
try this link

Although, I've not tried it myself ithers have had good results with the product. I'm waiting on a delivery for some FUD prints (~11th) and will be using an ultrasonic cleaner.

]]> stop4stuff 2012-06-02T19:42:09-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=49341&th=5438#msg_49341 Roy_Stevens 2012-06-02T19:42:49-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=50661&th=5438#msg_50661 I have minor success with chemicals because of the nature of my model,
Finally I took the figure and placed it on a couple of paper napkins and went over it with a hair dryer. You don't have to get it too hot for the wax to start flowing, just move the hair dryer over the piece back and forth and in no time the wax perculates out of the holes in the model.
Then clean off the residue which has deposited itself on the outer surface with the solvent of your choice and a cloth applicator that sheds no lent.
I use an old piece of linen cut up.
I found it also helps to clamp the napkins down to keep them from getting blown all around by the hair dryer.
Sorry if this method has already been mentioned.

This is a transparent view of the figure to give you some idea of the amount of wax I am talking about.
This particular figue has 2 holes. One 2 mm hole at the top of the head and one 1 mm hole at the bottom of the torso.
]]> rkapuaala 2012-07-01T05:15:46-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=52252&th=5438#msg_52252 Phxman 2012-08-03T05:14:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=54929&th=5438#msg_54929
I have a model with mm scale encapsulated channels. I have had good success with the following method:

1) Heat the model up to 60°C to melt the wax.
2) Pressurize the channels with a syringe to push out the molten wax.
3) Push through toluene (a standard organic solvent), to clean away any wax residues.

The toluene doesn't seem to dissolve or discolor the plastic. I haven't tried painting the models, but I assume it works after the toluene has dried.

Just be sure to use adequate ventilation and be aware of the fire hazard when working with toluene (as always consult the Material Safety Data Sheet for any new materials, for example here:

KBG]]> kristgy 2012-10-05T11:42:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=54943&th=5438#msg_54943 kristgy wrote on Fri, 05 October 2012 11:42
3) Push through toluene (a standard organic solvent), to clean away any wax residues.


Have you tried Heptane? There's a product called Bestine available from hobby stores such as Michaels. It has worked very well for me cutting the wax.]]> stonysmith 2012-10-05T17:50:36-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55031&th=5438#msg_55031 See section 11 of this

]]> BillBedford 2012-10-08T14:42:27-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55034&th=5438#msg_55034
I am working in a fumehood with the toluene, and that is definitely advisable.

KBG]]> kristgy 2012-10-08T15:10:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=57942&th=5438#msg_57942
mine had some kind of crystalization on it still trying to figure out how to get that off any ideas?
]]> Esoteric777 2012-12-04T06:12:04-00:00