Shapeways: Bring your creativity to life in 3D

Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2008-08-14T16:46:06-00:00

Hi,

I've been writing down common problems and fixes that we encounter at service@shapeways.com. They have all been collected and written down in 'solving upload issues'.

If you have any new hints that you think should be included, please leave a comment!

Cheers,

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Christel — 2008-08-15T04:59:22-00:00

Under error message ""The model could not be validated." it says "this error message is b0rked"
Keep in mind that not all users will understand hax0r jargon ;)

Under "Fixing your file" pt. 3, it says: "Make sure the mesh is completely non-manifold"
I'm not sure that's really what you mean to say ;)

Otherwise very helpful :)

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2008-08-15T05:20:06-00:00

Thanks Christel! I got a bit carried away there My remark about 'non-manifold' was wrong - it should've been 'manifold'. I wish we could drop that term all together and replace it with 'watertight' but I don't think that's mathematically correct...

Cheers,

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Spoors — 2008-08-19T09:58:23-00:00

Bart,
As you are aware, I experienced quite some upload issues. I design my models in Alibre Design Xpress and export them to STL format.

For thoise who use the STL format, I seem to have found a way to solve the issues by using MiniMagics.

I just import the STL file into MiniMagics and then save them again as an STL file (with a different filename ...). It looks like it does the trick and it also compresses the STL file.
Had one which went from 11MB down to 2 MB.

Maybe it's something to add to the Google Docs doc.

Cheers,

Jeroen

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2008-08-19T14:11:57-00:00

Thanks Jeroen!

I've just added your suggestion to the doc. I used MeshLab for the job (free, open source).

Cheers,

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

madox — 2008-10-21T11:10:20-00:00

bartv wrote on Tue, 19 August 2008 10:11

Thanks Jeroen!

I've just added your suggestion to the doc. I used MeshLab for the job (free, open source).

Cheers,

Bart

Thanks for the MeshLab recommendation, it is indeed free and open source with a pretty nice interface.

Infact it recommended the recommended changes upon opening the part and all you need to do is a 'Save As'.

(Also use Alibre Xpress and ran into the same problem)

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

protobernd — 2008-11-02T13:06:11-00:00

Hi folks,

now that I was going to post my clews on Alibre Design STL-files and shapeways uploads, I find that I should have read more in this forum before.

In fact, I found that Alibre Design exports too many vertices to the STL format. Now, MiniMagics did not tell me about such duplicate vertices which is why I got the message saying my design was non-manifold. Yet, MeshLab did tell me and by clearing "duplicate vertices" the file size was not only tremendously reduced, even better: it is accepted by shapeways.

By the way, I am quite excited about my first print and I appreciate the ease of use while uploading and ordering models from the shapeways website.

Cheers,
Bernd

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

pete — 2008-11-02T19:41:29-00:00

Hey Protobernd,

would you like to document your findings with Alibre Design and Shapeways? A step by step guide could be really useful (with some screenshots) so we can add it to our tutorial section.

This could help other Alibre users.

Just asking
regards,
Peter

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

madox — 2008-12-03T12:42:55-00:00

We're sorry, but there was a problem with processing your model 'Mechanical
Iris - Single Assembly'. It didn't pass the checks that
we run to make sure a model is printable. Here's the error message:

The model could not be validated.

This means that we had problems recognizing your file. We have a tutorial
that explains how you can
solve this issue on the site. You could also ask for help on our forum.

Admittedly its a rather large (30Mb) STL file, is that error just simply saying the validation process timed out or crashed? I'll try a more coarse STL file later...

On that note, have you guys considered accept gz'ed or zip'ed STL/X3D files? It reduces the transfer size alot.

Reducing the detail in the STL worked...

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2008-12-03T15:14:06-00:00

Hi Madox,

the filesize is not the problem, please have a look at the page 'solving upload issues' that we're linking to above and scroll down to ""The model could not be validated.". A possible solution is described there.

If that doesn't fix it, please contact service@shapeways.com.

Cheers,

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

madox — 2008-12-03T21:12:04-00:00

Hi Bart,

I also used Alibre Xpress and was tweaking the STL export options like the other people above.

The failed file had a max triangle plate size of 0.1, since adjusting this value to max larger plate size of 0.2 the STL validated with Shapeways and is available for printing.

I'll write up a short tutorial on how to export from Alibre to Shapeways later today if you're still interested.

Documented my pain and suffering in this blog post...

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

madox — 2008-12-07T13:14:35-00:00

A short (quick and nasty) flash tutorial on how to export from Alibre to STL's for Shapeways...oops i forgot to mention about the problem of 'too many polygons' i had above in this thread...oh well

http://www.madox.net/blog/2008/12/08/export-alibre-xpress-st ls-for-shapeways/

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Baalrog — 2009-08-29T09:04:33-00:00

99% of my errors are nonmanifold, and they happen quite often

The meshes are manifold when checked in maya and meshlab, but something happens once it's uploaded...maybe a further vert weld that mangles the manifold polies.

The error viewer used to do something, but the camera was always placed in the center of the model and there wasnt anything to see except an occasional red line...without a mesh to see it was kindof useless. I havent seen any red lines in that viewer in the last few weeks.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2009-08-31T17:48:46-00:00

Hi Baalrog,

I'd be very interested in seeing some of those files that are validated as manifold by Maya and/or Meshlab but then fail our test. Could you mail them to bart@shapeways.com?

Thanks!

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

photosfromrob — 2009-10-14T18:55:22-00:00

I have two issues...
1. I've had a model rejected as non-manifold---Meshlab, Rhino and Magics OKed the model AND I uploaded a smaller version (just scaled down) that was OKed. I think you have a fault in your software.
2. I had a model similarly rejected last month...I sent a copy of the model in an email to service @ shapeways like suggested, that was Sept 25. I have still not been told what your results were.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

RalphVdB — 2009-10-15T11:56:06-00:00

Hi photosfromrob,

please sent your file to ralph@shapeways.com and i will look into it for you.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

RalphVdB — 2009-10-21T08:55:06-00:00

Hi,

i took a look at your model. Nothing is wrong with it. If you upload in mm, it will pload just fine! Good luck!

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

photosfromrob — 2009-10-21T18:55:07-00:00

OK...now it uploads. You still have not addressed my
question. WHY WAS IT REJECTED TWICE FOR MANIFOLD ERROR ? Is there a problem with your software...did you even check. It was rejected TWICE and then accepted with on changes. I've had this happen before.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

ggunhouse — 2009-10-21T20:47:09-00:00

I'm having the same problem. Meshlab says the model's OK, Shapeways rejects it for being non-manifold. The Shapeways error viewer shows nothing (no red lines, no visible model).
I have uploaded it many times. I guess if there's a chance it will eventually be accepted, I'll just keep trying.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

joris — 2009-10-21T21:57:15-00:00

email it to service (at) shapeways (dot) com and we'll have a look at them.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

photosfromrob — 2009-10-21T23:14:08-00:00

One of the problems here is service@shapeways.com. Everyone says to email them....they don't respond. I sent them a problem file on Sept 25, that's almost a month, still nothing.
The other problem is (in my case) the model was fine (Ralph confirmed that) but You don't address the issue that there might be a problem with your software.

I get that you're still a small company, still in beta. But, as you grow, the small problems well be more troublesome. So, the more you address now, the better the future will be.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

GHP — 2009-10-21T23:52:10-00:00

It is definitely possible to create non-manifold meshes that are watertight (although not vice versa). I've tried submitting quite a few of these myself. Typically, I have an edge which runs through the endpoint vertex of another edge somewhere between its own endpoints, so that the edge is part of 3, rather than just 2, faces. I believe the STL file definition forbids this, but MeshLab seems to be quite happy to save such meshes in the STL format. MeshLab also creates such edges itself in at least some cases, e.g. when using the "Close Holes" feature. (I've recently found that I can get it to patch at least some of these holes in a manifold way from the "Fill Holes" dialog using the "Trivial" option.)

By the way, duplicate vertices are an inherent part of the STL format, but some programs may be duplicating faces as well, or filling them with other junk (e.g. null faces - three points along a line).

I've also had at least one model where I somehow managed to flip some of my faces over existing faces, so that I had squares covered by two triangles one way and again by two triangles rotated 90 deg. around the centre of the square. This must be at least potentially non-manifold.

How do you check whether a file is manifold in MeshLab? I've sometimes used the "Remove Non-Manifold Edges" and "Remove Non-Manifold Vertices" options, but these don't necessarily remove anything even in obviously non-watertight meshes.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

ggunhouse — 2009-10-22T17:08:29-00:00

GHP wrote on Wed, 21 October 2009 23:52

How do you check whether a file is manifold in MeshLab? I've sometimes used the "Remove Non-Manifold Edges" and "Remove Non-Manifold Vertices" options, but these don't necessarily remove anything even in obviously non-watertight meshes.

I'm using "Remove non-manifold faces" which produces the message "Mesh is two-manifold. Nothing done." I'll keep searching for the problem using other methods.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

GHP — 2009-10-24T08:44:34-00:00

I have a mesh saved in the "ply" format in MeshLab that is apparently manifold in MeshLab ("Remove Non Manifold Faces" and "Remove Non Manifold Vertices" remove nothing), that becomes non-manifold when I've removed duplicate vertices. I believe this occurs because I've combined multiple meshes, all manifold separately (as verified by uploading them to Shapeways), which happen to have some vertices in common.

Does 3D printing simply not allow duplicated vertices? I understand that because the STL file format repeats each vertex for every face that it is used in, it is difficult if not impossible to recognize the vertices that must be doubled to maintain a manifold mesh, but do any of the file formats that can be uploaded on Shapeways not have this problem? I've tried saving the original apparently manifold object in the STL, DAE, and X3D formats, but Shapeways says that all of these are non-manifold. The X3D format is non-manifold when I reopen it in MeshLab, but I can re-open the DAE file in MeshLab without it becoming non-manifold (by the MeshLab tests), and also the STL file if I uncheck the "Unify Duplicated Vertices" option.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

nasdreks — 2009-10-27T17:54:18-00:00

Hey, I built a model in SolidWorks as saved it as an STL file. The actual object is only an inch and a half (a little over 3cm, if I remember my conversions right). When I uploaded it, I selected the 'inches' option but got an email that says my object is way too big, suggesting that the file is actually over 4 feet tall.

I'm guessing this is because the default is meters (which would explain the 4 feet 1.5 meter= over 4 feet) and the inch toggle isn't working.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Youknowwho4eva — 2009-10-27T19:05:34-00:00

Are you sure your solidworks is set to inches? I vaguely remember there being an issue with solidworks export or something like that.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Jonah — 2010-03-11T17:19:03-00:00

I uploaded a couple models last night and they haven't posted to my designs. The message said ten minutes so I'm wondering where they are?

Thanks,

Jonah

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

eriks — 2010-03-11T21:25:32-00:00

Hey Jonah, I looked into it and it looks like you found a bug in our software.

I also saw that since then you have been able to make some headway with getting your model uploaded, and have been receiving mails about those, so I am going to assume you're all set now?

Sorry for the annoyance it may have caused you yesterday, I can imagine that not getting any feedback about your uploads must have been a frustrating ordeal.

we try very hard to make our software as stable as can be, but sometimes bugs just happen. But we are always open to good feedback about that (or anything else really, a good idea is never wasted on us) And of course if the site is failing you, you can always contact customer support to see if they can resolve the issue.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

Jonah — 2010-03-11T22:33:33-00:00

Thanks Eriks

The error emails were going straight to spam, DOH, my bad!

I ended up getting an STL to upload and we are having a test printed. I originally was trying to get a collada .dae to upload but I got an error saying that it was the wrong format.

I thought collada was an acceptable format from maya2008 based on the tutorial I read, has there been a change? also, will I be able to do full color prints from the STL format?

Thanks,
J

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

eriks — 2010-03-11T22:41:29-00:00

happy to hear you found the mails. I was really sweating there for a second.

We do accept dae's and I am quite certain that they work because I actually uploaded quite a few to test our software earlier this week. However I am not sure all collada files are created equal, and as such will have to look into maya2008 collada files to see if there is some problem with those and our software.

I am not 100% sure what file formats are accepted that can carry UV maps or colour information. But at least X3D files and VRML files work, that much I do know.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

chris89 — 2010-09-19T16:25:59-00:00

about the collada files.
Newer Maya and Max made collada files are actually .FBX files, and thus not work in shapeways.

See if you can find an OpenCollada exporter for your software, that should work

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

bartv — 2010-09-20T09:40:07-00:00

Hi Chris,

I'm afraid I don't understand - a Collada file is an FBX file? Those are two different things, aren't they? Could you mail a sample to bart@shapeways.com?

Thanks!

Bart

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

FlashX — 2010-10-24T23:20:35-00:00

Hi guys,

What parameters does the uploader actually check for?

will it check for small parts within my model?

Cheers

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

toysmaking — 2011-02-09T14:05:49-00:00

Hi there! Where can I find the exact guidelines for uploading shapes? I see that a lot of people are having problems uploading their 3D models. A question from 3D printing big fan.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

stop4stuff — 2011-02-09T17:02:53-00:00

toysmaking wrote on Wed, 09 February 2011 14:05

Hi there! Where can I find the exact guidelines for uploading shapes? I see that a lot of people are having problems uploading their 3D models. A question from 3D printing big fan.

The problems that people face in regards to uploading vary from the model they try to upload not being solid, as in 3d shell terms with holes or inverted normals, all the way through to the model being all ok and the upload software not coping with the complexity.

If you have models ready to upload, I'd say the best place to start would be looking at the materials you want your model to be made in and looking at the design rules for that material.

If you have specific issues with a particular model or material, ask here in the forums, there's many people more knowledgable than me who will often help out when they can.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

thomashuang.net — 2012-03-10T05:21:40-00:00

I get an upload failed message.

I don't understand why my STL file is not uploading. It is only 145x82x77mm, and the file size is just 2.2mb.

When I separate the parts in the model into two STL files each one uploaded fine. I would like the have the volume discount by combining the two.

Any ideas? See attached screenshot.

-------------------------
Upload Failed

Please check the following issues:

The file format is not supported. We can currently process STL, OBJ, X3D, Collada, VRML97, VRML2 or ZIP. If your 3D application cannot export to those formats, please see our tutorial 'Converting with AccuTrans'.
The file is too large. The upload limit for Shapeways is 64 MB. If you have an exceptionally complex model that you would like to print, please contact us.
The ZIP file is empty or contains a folder instead of individual files.
Check this image to see how to make a correct ZIP file.

There are some restrictions to be able to produce your 3D model. Please have look at our tutorial 'Things to Keep in Mind When Designing for 3D Printing'.

If you have a problem uploading a file that you think is valid, please mail it to service@shapeways.com and attach the file. We will look into it for you and see if we can fix the problem or give you advice on how to fix your model.

File is too big

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

thomashuang.net — 2012-03-10T05:44:39-00:00

my units were in millimeter and oddly it will upload successfully if i scale my model by 1/1000 and select meter as my units. I hope the scaling down and back won't shift points or affect accuracy. I'm using AutoCAD and using the STLOUT command with FACETRES set to the highest at 10.

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

ArcadiaEngineering — 2012-07-30T16:02:55-00:00

I've been back and forth with a service agent for over a week now and have not been able to solve my issue.

I have created a model in SolidWorks and saved it as an .stl. In order to properly submit a correct model, I have been informed that I must fix the inverted normals in my model.

I am completely new to NetFabb and am having some trouble fixing these normals. I have followed all of the tutorials that have been given to me through the Shapeways site, and still no luck.

Any suggestions?

-- On a side note, there is a check box that is offered that states I give you all permission to finish my model for me if repairs are still necessary. Is there any reason why Shapeways hasn't helped me out with fixing these repairs?

Please let me know what I need to do, as I didn't really expect this file submission to last over a week.
Thanks for the help,

Mike Latham

Arcadia Engineering

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

stop4stuff — 2012-07-30T18:08:02-00:00

Two easy methods of resolving 'inverted normals'

1. Upload your model to NetFabb Cloud Service, wait for the repair and dowload the repaired model.

2. Buy a copy of Accutrans3D, load the model in, click Align Nomals, then Preset All followed by save.

If there are any other underlaying issues with the model that cause the normals to become inverted then those should be fixed beforehand. In my experience, Shapeways MeshMedic is more powerful in some respects than NetFabb Cloud, however NetFabb Cloud allows you to download the repaired model whereas Shapeways does not.

The check box for repairing a model is generally for easy fixes that only take a few mouse clicks with the right software - aligning normals is an easy fix, which suggests that there may be underlaying issues with the model.

If you feel the need, put a shout out in the forums to see if someone can help you out getting your model to a printable state. I'll take a look for free and give you some pointers if you like, just send me a PM.

Paul

Re: Work in progress: 'Solving Shapeways Upload Issues'

RatherDashing — 2012-11-30T20:34:31-00:00

Uploaded two models to my account, neither have appeared in the "My Models" section. I can look at them from the email, but can't find them otherwise.

EDIT: nevermind, they finally showed up today.

Re: file showing clean in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but Shapeways rejects it

Sophie Kahn — 2013-03-11T18:30:29-00:00

HI everyone,

I have a model that is showing as error-free in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but it isn't passing the upload checks. It's under 1 million triangles, just under the max size for WSF, and I have managed to get 4 other files through the system recently so I don't know what is different about this one.

Christel and one of her colleagues in Customer Service both looked at it, and neither of them can figure out the problem. I have spent about two weeks on it eliminating every thin wall I can find, but I'm wondering if it really is a wall thickness issue, as often tiny thin walls are only caught later. There was some bad geometry created when I booleaned out a cylinder at the back, but I thought I had deleted it all.

Does anyone have a moment to take a look and try to figure out what's going wrong?

(I know it looks very fragmented, but like I said I've spent a lot of time checking every small area for anything that breaks the design rules, including any bad internal geometry, and can't see the issue.)

Thanks so much!

Sophie

Re: file showing clean in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but Shapeways rejects it

stonysmith — 2013-03-11T19:28:09-00:00

The upload process (to my knowledge) won't fail/stop on thin walls. Your model looks fine to me. It seems to fit within the bounding box for WSF, it would fill most of the "floor space" and rise to about 1/2 of the build volume.

One thing I see.. many areas of your model are hollow. Did you include drain holes for the trapped material?

If you do have drain holes, it's going to price out at about $1000 to print in WSF.. if not, then it's going to be a good bit more because Mesh Medic will remove the interior voids.

Re: file showing clean in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but Shapeways rejects it

Mitchell Jetten — 2013-03-11T20:47:57-00:00

Hey Sophie,

We will look into this for you.
It seems that our upload process fails:

netfabb error, 17 can't unify. Say's it ran out of memory.

[20130307224133] ---------------------------------------------------------
[20130307224133] Face count: 1098012
[20130307224133] Edge count: 1647018
[20130307224133] Shell count: 1
[20130307224133] Hole count: 0
[20130307224133] ---------------------------------------------------------

As soon as I have more information I'll post it right away

Mitchell

Re: file showing clean in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but Shapeways rejects it

Sophie Kahn — 2013-03-11T22:39:31-00:00

Thanks everyone!

stonysmith, it does have quite a few drain holes (I hide them as much as I can!) They should be between 3 and 4mm.

Mitchell, thanks for looking into it. I get those errors in Netfabb too sometimes when trying to boolean together, remove self-intersections etc. Taking down the poly count helps me - If you need me to provide a file with the poly count reduced yet again, I'm happy to do that.

Re: file showing clean in Netfabb Pro and Mini Magics, but Shapeways rejects it

Sophie Kahn — 2013-03-12T15:54:26-00:00

Hi again Mitchell -

I seem to have solved the problem by reducing the poly count by about 10%, to about 47000 triangles. I also removed self-intersections one more time, so there should be no issues with unification. Seems like this was a file size issue rather than a problem with the file itself. If I have any further trouble in the process I will get back in touch!