http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php Shapeways: Bring your creativity to life in 3D http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55350&th=11181#msg_55350 me I'd have to fork over extra cash), there's also the fact that those fees are outrageously high and completely unnecessary.

I don't understand why any company or individual would use UPS if they have any choice in the matter. We, as your customers, do not have a choice, because you've arbitrarily decided to use UPS and nobody else. You, Shapeways, do have a choice, and you can choose different shipping agents. If you care about your customers, you'll switch over to an alternative as soon as possible.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-10-14T20:26:54-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55351&th=11181#msg_55351 of UPS (for whatever reason - do they have to collect import taxes, or are they simply in such a strong position in the
Canadian market that they can charge additional fees at will?)
I have no problem with UPS over here in Germany (except maybe their outrageous parking habits, but they are on par with
German Postal Service in the disguise of Documents Hopelessly Lost).
Shapeways surely is well aware of the problems their Canadian customers are experiencing, but it may not be easy to
find another shipping solution (chances are that they got a special deal from UPS in return for an exclusive and/or long term
contract).]]> mkroeker 2012-10-14T21:06:08-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55352&th=11181#msg_55352
Yes, I'm Canadian, and no, the fees they charge are not import taxes. Sometimes there are import taxes, and I happily pay them, but UPS will often charge brokerage fees approaching 50% of the total order when all they did was sign a couple pieces of paper and pay a very small import fee (probably 3 to 10 dollars).

For example, I recently ordered some Shapeways prints that totalled $55 - I had to pay $20 in brokerage fees, not to Canada customs, not as import tax, but for the privilege of UPS signing a couple papers for me. It's possible - after a lot of grappling, arguing, and occasionally legal-threatening - to self-clear the shipment and not have to pay those brokerage fees, but I don't order bulk. I order various small shipments, and I don't have time to grapple with UPS to self-clear every single one of them.

This is a really serious concern. I don't know where Shapeways is based, but my UPS receipt shows the shipper as Shapeways, based in New York - if it's coming from the US, the USPS is an infinitely greater choice for shipping than UPS for us Canadians.


EDIT: Let me just add that I would be happy to pay more shipping to the USPS than pay low shipping and a huge brokerage fee to UPS. $6.50 shipping is great, but I'm betting USPS shipping would be cheaper once you factor in the extra cost (and aggravation) of UPS and their moneygrubbing.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-10-14T21:12:19-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55353&th=11181#msg_55353 General Discussion forum who cannot order any of his stuff at all as he lives in Russia... maybe you should team
up and meet mid-way to live in Reykjavik,Iceland
Problem from shapeways' side of this is probably that "all of us" (non-Canadian customers, that is) may have to
pay more if UPS loses its exclusive status. ]]> mkroeker 2012-10-14T21:30:57-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55354&th=11181#msg_55354
I don't want to make other people pay more shipping - that's the last thing on my list. On the other hand, I also resent it if Shapeways' opinion on the matter is, 'yeah, well, to hell with those Canadians, who cares about their shipping costs.' If I can't use a shipping agent other than UPS here I'll just have to go elsewhere - which would be a bum deal for me and Shapeways, because they'd lose a customer, and I'd have to deal with much more sketchy companies, most of whom don't even offer metal printing.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-10-14T21:35:05-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55360&th=11181#msg_55360
Furthermore UPS is the single reason why I just can't get excited or interested about placing any future orders with Shapeways.

I live in Prince Edward Island and until only a couple of weeks ago we had no actual UPS office anywhere in our province. Instead our local Purolator company acted as an agent for UPS. With both of my purchases I went through the exact same scenario: UPS will not leave a card at my house to notify me if I missed their delivery driver so I have no way of knowing that my parcel is even on PEI. My only option is to obessively check the UPS website to know when it might have arrived. The first time I ordered from Shapeways the UPS website advised that I needed to call UPS regarding it's delivery. If you have a great deal of time to waste you should really try calling UPS and try to get a human to talk to. They just don't hire them. After a number of tries and a tremendous period of time I finally did find a human in there. That guy must have been new and accidentally answered the phone:

"We've tried delivering three times to your address already and if you do not pick up your parcel we're going to have to return it" was their advice.

"First I've heard of it" I replied

"Where do you pick up a parcel?" I asked. The guy on the phone told me they don't share that kind of information.

I really love the brokerage surprise when you do finally get your parcel. There's no precise calculation and the Purolator office insists that you can not pay by credit card. Only cash or cheque. Apparently, and I quote: "UPS won't accept credit cards". Funny, their website says they do.

In retrospect I see now the trend my rant is taking and I'll curtail it here.

UPS service is crap and their terrible service has become the face of Shapeways to me. I can't seperate the two.

The face of a company is the person that serves you. Shapeways is just a website and they're building a business with a lowsy sales team on the front end. You have to really want something from them to deal with their shipping team. The product is awesome. I really, genuinely wish the shipping thing could be fixed.]]> chrismears 2012-10-14T23:42:24-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55362&th=11181#msg_55362
If Shapeways is partnering with UPS and forcing us to use them, and only them, as a shipping agent, then Shapeways is saying, "We are comfortable with the level of service UPS provides. We think they reflect favourably on us and our work. Our level of care and concern for you our customers has led us to UPS."

And I'm not comfortable working with a company that would have such low standards for customer service and quality that they would see how UPS behaves and say, "Yes, this is acceptable, and we want this trend to continue."]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-10-15T00:08:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55363&th=11181#msg_55363
I live in the US, so I don't know what the exact situation is, but I imagine that it's rather hard to flag down a USPS mailperson every day when you are in Eindhoven, NL. It's not like there's a USPO on every street corner.

Yes, I feel your pain.. UPS is not my favorite either, but I do know that it's difficult for a multi-national company to get good shipping rates to all locations.

For them to have two separate shippers, I can imagine that the labor in their distribution process has to at least increase by 50%.

Give them time.. they'll work out something.]]> stonysmith 2012-10-15T01:40:56-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55364&th=11181#msg_55364
Even if it's shipped to me direct from the Netherlands, it's still completely unacceptable to offer only one shipping method. It's unethical and disrespectful to the customers to make us suffer with lousy shipping so Shapeways can make a deal with them.

I hope they are working on something, but I haven't seen any indication that they are. It would be nice if they could at least let us know they give a damn and solutions are being looked for. I'm trying to sell a lot of my creations on Etsy, and I'm having to mark up my products significantly more than my competition to deal with these damned UPS fees. If it gets to the point that my business is suffering I'll have to take it elsewhere.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-10-15T02:14:12-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=55760&th=11181#msg_55760


Around Toronto, there's quite a few UPS outlets but none of them actually deal with delivery, just franchise for shipping out. Even in a major Canadian city I have drive 1 hour to pickup at their depot.

Compared to all the other shipping services from US to Canada, UPS is the worst by far. USPO shipping is delivered by Canada Post (our national mailing) so there's plenty of pickup points. Same with FedEx and DHL, great customer services despite they are not Canadian delivery services. UPS is the only one I ever had drop packages outside my door on a rainy day... So I feel your pain. ]]> terenceyan 2012-10-22T13:55:31-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=56875&th=11181#msg_56875 terenceyan wrote on Mon, 22 October 2012 13:55


Compared to all the other shipping services from US to Canada, UPS is the worst by far. USPO shipping is delivered by Canada Post (our national mailing) so there's plenty of pickup points. Same with FedEx and DHL, great customer services despite they are not Canadian delivery services. UPS is the only one I ever had drop packages outside my door on a rainy day... So I feel your pain.


I just posted about this issue in another thread, but you said it more eloquently. UPS is by far the worst, and i can't believe they are still in business. To pick up anything, I'd have to drive an hr from Vancouver, and they are only open M-F??? People have jobs.

OK, enough venting. It gives me a bit comfort knowing that I am not alone.

This is my first shapeways order and I am very unsatisfied right now.....not Shapeway's fault, but it does play a huge factor when thinking about future orders. ]]> Kimotion 2012-11-15T07:04:28-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=56876&th=11181#msg_56876 Kimotion 2012-11-15T07:10:13-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=56877&th=11181#msg_56877 PlainOrb 2012-11-15T09:31:23-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=56879&th=11181#msg_56879
Regards
Luis]]> glehn 2012-11-15T10:00:10-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=57347&th=11181#msg_57347
Quite apart from the expense there just doesn't seem to be a way of calculating exactly how much you will be charged at the door. Unlike the previous poster I wasn't lucky enough to find that stupid human who answered the phone!

I'm not sure what the mentioned issue is with them NOT accepting credit cards, though - I used to be able to pay by cash but now they will ONLY accept payment by credit card.

Re the Etsy issue: Yes, I agree absolutely with the point that factoring in the UPS charges simply makes your product way pricier than most on the site; I swear some people sell their items at a LOSS there they are so damn cheap sometimes! How can you compete with that?

I regularly buy from a jewellery supplier in the US, with packages of comparable size and weight. They, however, give me an option to ship via postal service and how much do they charge me? .... $5.80 !! Yes, they say it could take four weeks to get to me and sometimes it does, but for the most part it's about two weeks.

Since no-one from Shapeways seems to want to weigh in here - they're probably so sick of answering the same damn complaints! - I will tell you that I have been told Shapeways is *considering* opening up a Canadian shipping point, and that will make things a lot cheaper for us. How far those plans have come I have no idea.



]]> lensman 2012-11-23T17:27:35-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58654&th=11181#msg_58654
It's just simple math. Better shipping options means I'll be able to make models over $20, order larger quantities at one time, and reduce my markup, meaning more customers will buy them from me, meaning I'll order even more, meaning more money for Shapeways. This is why their insistence on UPS-only baffles me. It's detrimental to me their customer, and to themselves as well. A USPS or FedEx shipping option would alleviate a lot of those problems, and a Canadian shipping point would eliminate them altogether.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-12-15T06:05:38-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58660&th=11181#msg_58660
Who can make the most of it, and screw the end-customer as much as you can, because the fat cats at the top are not going to take a hit on their profits.

Case in point:

My model was "Origin Scanned" in in Maspeth, NY, on Monday, December 10, 2012 at 7:01 PM.

It was placed on the truck for delivery on Wednesday, December 12, at 8:25 A.M. for a transit time of 1 Day, 13 Hours, 24 Minutes.

The UPS website had it originally listed to be delivered by close of business on Wednesday, December 12. It has been on the truck, marked "out for delivery" for a grand total of 2 Days, 7 Hours, 35 Minutes. Almost TWICE as long as it took to get from New York, to the distribution center in Swainsboro, Georgia, some 36 miles away.

I called UPS, and was told "It was sent to an incorrect distribution facility, and that error has been corrected. It is now at the Pleasantdale, Ga distribution center, awaiting delivery to you. Mind you, it is still marked as "out for delivery" on their tracking website. No mention of a re-route to another facility. UPS merely changed the projected delivery date on Wednesday, on Thursday, and on Friday.

Here's the problem: Swainsboro is 35 miles away. Pleasantdale is just outside Doraville, Ga, which is 149 miles away.

The UPS rep did not know that Pleasantdale is over 110 miles further away from me than Swainsboro. I don't live in the largest city in Georgia, but that's totally ridiculous, to send a package to a distribution center that is over 100 miles farther away! What are they thinking?

The projected date of delivery is now December 18.

That just happens to be the exact day I needed it in hand. I now won't have any time to do anything to it, if there is anything that needs to be done with it. I can't paint it, I can't use it, and I feel like I have wasted the money I spent on it, because it is now a completely useless thing to me. I ordered when I did, and from whom I did, because it was clear that my order would be delivered on time, and before I needed it.

Unless or until Shapeways gives the people who give them money another shipping option, they won't get my business any longer.

I'm voting with my wallet. Shapeways won't get any more money from me. I don't care how good their stuff is. It's my money, and I choose where I spend it.
]]> lancer525 2012-12-15T12:09:46-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58662&th=11181#msg_58662
@lancer525 - While I understand where you're coming from (see above!) I'm afraid I'm "locked into" Shapeways. Despite the cost I cannot find a cheaper alternative. I like Shapeways and for the most part love their Customer Support team, but business is business and if a service of equal quality - but cheaper - came along I would have to seriously consider jumping ship.

We are told that Shapeways is "working on" the UPS problem... but we've been told that for at the very least one year...

Glenn
]]> lensman 2012-12-15T14:10:38-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58762&th=11181#msg_58762
As I'm sure you are aware, there are pros and cons to using various mail carriers - for Canadians, USPS would be great as it eliminates brokerage fees, for locals, UPS is great as it provides tracking...the list goes on.

It's not a simple solution, and any solution is not going to please everyone, just like UPS does not please everyone right now.

It's not just a question of the "buckage" either - but a combination of tracking, shipping, cost and location services.

Please know that we DO hear that it is an issue and we are, and continue to, find a good solution for (almost) everyone!

Best,
Natalia]]> natalia 2012-12-17T20:59:10-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58766&th=11181#msg_58766
Glenn
]]> lensman 2012-12-17T21:49:25-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58776&th=11181#msg_58776
It's great to hear from Shapeways and hear that you're working on the problem. That definitely raises my spirits.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-12-18T00:01:31-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58783&th=11181#msg_58783


Guess UPS delivers by a pickup without rain cover ?]]> PlainOrb 2012-12-18T02:04:44-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58787&th=11181#msg_58787 PeregrineStudios 2012-12-18T03:23:32-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58790&th=11181#msg_58790 PlainOrb 2012-12-18T07:48:07-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58868&th=11181#msg_58868 bartv 2012-12-19T09:27:08-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58884&th=11181#msg_58884

Glenn]]> lensman 2012-12-19T12:58:42-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58989&th=11181#msg_58989 PlainOrb 2012-12-21T01:05:06-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58991&th=11181#msg_58991 Kimotion wrote on Thu, 15 November 2012 07:10
Until a more reasonable shipping company is used, I'd recommend reship.com. I've used them before for orders that are not available in Canada. Basically, they send the shipments to a facility in portland OR (no sales tax). Then they reship it to Canada or wherever (you have to pay for the shipping of course) and at least they take it to Canada Post so you'd actually have easier access to your purchase. I recently changed my shipment to the reship.com address solely due to the horrible Canada/UPS issue. You do pay for double shipping (shapeways/ups and reship/canadapost), but at least you have access to your product.


I don't know why, but I only now really clued in to this post. It's a fantastic idea, and most importantly, it would get around the brokerage fees, my biggest issue with UPS, and would get around UPS leaving packages out in the rain/snow, other people's biggest concerns.

I'll have to give this a try until a more reasonable solution is found.]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-12-21T01:35:30-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58992&th=11181#msg_58992 @Kimotion would you care to share some of your experiences with reship.com... i.e. costs, time frame for delivery, etc.

Glenn]]> lensman 2012-12-21T02:25:49-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=58997&th=11181#msg_58997
They have USPS Global Express option (rarely in customs for over 2 days cus they need to move fast), but it can be about $35 - $55.

If your item(s) from shapeways total above $20 and want no brokerage fees, AND if time isn't that much of an issue, I'd definitely use reship.com for shipping to Canada.

Hope this info helps!

-Jeff]]> Kimotion 2012-12-21T06:02:21-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59012&th=11181#msg_59012
Glenn]]> lensman 2012-12-21T11:08:33-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59016&th=11181#msg_59016 Unlike Canada, here in Brazil, UPS charges their fees on every package. Besides that, there are federal and state taxes that I have to pay when importing through UPS, which add to over 100% of the product value. Yes, we pay a LOT of taxes around here.
If I import through normal mail (USPS), only the federal tax apply and it is "only" 60% , And packages are selected by sampling, which means that not all packages are taxed.

So I really don't mind a longer wait as I can save a lot when importing through USPS.]]> glehn 2012-12-21T11:45:21-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59027&th=11181#msg_59027 ]]> lensman 2012-12-21T14:39:24-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59037&th=11181#msg_59037 lensman wrote on Fri, 21 December 2012 11:08
Yeah, 2.5 weeks to a month is about what I expect when I get a US company to ship by USPS so that doesn't surprise me. But what about the cost? How much for regular USPS/Can Post. The cost for Global Express is way too high.

Glenn


My last Reship was for a bunch of Christmas ornaments from Shapeways. They were in a small-medium size box and it USPS Priority cost was about $11 I think. Reship also charges a service fee of $5, so the total ended up being around $16. I would only use Reship of your order is like over $40. Otherwise the UPS COD charges may be cheaper than Reship costs. ]]> Kimotion 2012-12-21T18:04:00-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59039&th=11181#msg_59039 lensman 2012-12-21T18:37:58-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59148&th=11181#msg_59148
- In europe UPS does a pretty solid job, and as far as I know the same counts for the US the majority of the time.
- Canada is a pretty small country when it gets to population* (smaller even than a country like spain)... not that that makes it 'ok' or anything to allow those customers to be treated badly, but my point is more that if the problems are *mostly* limited to you guys it would be an acceptable cost/trade.
- Getting to my last point, a close relative of mine has worked for various companies (for example warehouses) building the shipping integration with various postal services... and from what i heard from him it's a HUGE job. Purely on the technical side the first company for whom he had to do it expected it to take 1 or 2 months... and it ended up taking more than half a year to get the basis done. Every single postal service has different expectations and systems and their documentations tend to be one huge complex mess... so aside of any special deals they would supposedly have with UPS according to you guys... it's not as simple as you think to just slap on another postal service.

Oh well, in the end it all boils down to how much benefit they would get for the added costs of adding more postal services, and it seems that right now it's not worth it. Still... after reading this stuff I kinda hope that TNT Express won't be bought by UPS... though chances are they will

* Totally offtopic tip, check out this map to get a bit more of a fair worldview It's awesome xD]]> DavidMulder 2012-12-24T08:43:03-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59174&th=11181#msg_59174 away from urban areas.

A Switzerland case was reported when shipping was included in the material prices, and the person had to pay a lot because "the label must be wrong, zero shipping is impossible, so we will raise the number what we want and then tax everything" (no idea if/how it was solved). If EU wouldn't have free trade, it would be in the same boat than everyone except USA. So UPS just has to be happy with charging more for crossing weak frontiers (use the map you posted, NY to Oregon $6.50, NL to Germany, $9.50) or whatever other excuse they can find. And Russia is even worse, no shipping (unless you use a company address?). PO boxes are not supported at all.

So pretty understable that people complains. Shipping quality should look beyond the initial price. Population size should not matter as much as sales forecast and viability of keep on trading.]]> stannum 2012-12-24T19:36:03-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59175&th=11181#msg_59175 PeregrineStudios 2012-12-24T19:40:02-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59186&th=11181#msg_59186 not that that makes it 'ok' or anything to allow those customers to be treated badly, but my point is more that if the problems are *mostly* limited to you guys it would be an acceptable cost/trade."... Either way, I am absolutely a proponent of other shipping options, personally I think the current shipping rates are great, but I was just trying to show a bit of the other side of the coin, as this thread was far too one sided. Take the last comment by "PeregrineStudios", if you really would do what you say you do, than a single client who keeps on complaining would ruin your entire business. That's just not how life works, good businesses still have people complaining, the trick is in treating them well (for example by Shapeways people actually reading this thread and replying to it) and trying to look for improvements whenever possible if it is worth the cost (which seems to be the case for Shapeways as well)... going 'all-out' for every single customer would not be an option, as that would for example mean they would ship it by hand with another postal service because you don't like UPS in which case they wouldn't have manpower left to man the machines.]]> DavidMulder 2012-12-25T15:56:49-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59196&th=11181#msg_59196
Looking back over your post, my only real objections are both to your implication (you didn't say as such, but it was definitely implied) that the Canadian market just doesn't matter as much, or is less important. Which I object to strenuously; I'm sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick because I'm not in the U.S. and frankly, won't stand for it.

The other thing you mentioned was that this topic has been very one-sided - which I also object to, since that implies that we are in some way being unfair to ask for reasonable shipping options. Being forced to use a reshipping agent is a bandaid solution that should not be looked at as an actual alternative - it's a temporary measure to fix a greater problem that must be addressed in full, and soon.

I realize it's not possible to please and delight every customer, and I know I haven't done that. But it's very possible to try as hard as you can to do so, and I definitely do that. All I ask is that other business do the same for me when the situation is reversed. I know that Shapeways is trying - looking into the problem - and that's sufficient for the moment.
]]> PeregrineStudios 2012-12-25T19:25:48-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=59200&th=11181#msg_59200 just realized that when reading back your posts carefully)

And with unfair I meant that the vast majority who didn't encounter any problems won't ever post here, so it becomes pretty one sided. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but if someone stumbles upon this thread (like me) without any prior knowledge it seems like both shapeways and UPS are big evils. Personally I even started getting a pretty negative image of UPS till I spoke with that relative of mine I mentioned and found out that the troubles you guys describe happen all over the world with lots of different postal services... and that if you dig around in all the paperwork the postal services provide you can normally also figure out what you can exactly expect... though the postal services tend to be so huge that it's pretty hard (if not impossible) to get a global overview. Either way, my point is, this discussion was pretty one sided no matter how you turn it.

Either way, we understand eachother probably and I too am happy to see that shapeways is looking into more shipping options, but ach, why in the world did I even get into this forum topic .]]> DavidMulder 2012-12-25T21:01:54-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=60930&th=11181#msg_60930 The products cost me 150 USD, overall paid more than 220 USD for 3 small products.

This is my first order on Shapeways and I had no idea about UPS' extra charge "policy".

Needless to say, I'm furious

Should These Cost 220 USD?

]]> Keam 2013-01-28T10:22:46-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62190&th=11181#msg_62190
USPS rejects all claims outright. I ship glass domes where I work, and UPS is the only company that actually honors claims when there is breakage. USPS will deny the claim, even if the packaging is acceptable by UPS standards. The funny thing is, UPS almost never breaks them, maybe 1 in 100. USPS is more like 1 in 5.]]> Twopounder 2013-02-16T18:09:25-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62192&th=11181#msg_62192
Glenn
]]> lensman 2013-02-16T18:15:10-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62193&th=11181#msg_62193
I don't think anyone is asking for UPS to stop being an option - we just want other options as well. Personally, I've never had anything come damaged or mishandled with USPS / Canada Post, though that's just me.]]> PeregrineStudios 2013-02-16T18:15:33-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62241&th=11181#msg_62241 Roy_Stevens 2013-02-17T16:02:44-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62243&th=11181#msg_62243

Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02

This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.

It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.]]> Twopounder 2013-02-17T16:47:42-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62244&th=11181#msg_62244 Twopounder wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:47
I agree that options are good. Even the drivers can make a difference in which shipping company you prefer.

Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02

This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.

It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.


My packages are always shipped from New York State in the U.S., not Denmark.

And I agree it's not an easy fix, and I'm happy to wait for them to solve it - however, it should be a priority. This isn't a minor inconvenience, it's a big problem. They said they're working on it and that's great, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet or heard anything about it since then. It would be nice to be kept updated on what they're doing to solve this issue.]]> PeregrineStudios 2013-02-17T16:53:41-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62250&th=11181#msg_62250 PeregrineStudios wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:53

Twopounder wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:47

I agree that options are good. Even the drivers can make a difference in which shipping company you prefer. Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02 This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service. It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.

My packages are always shipped from New York State in the U.S., not Denmark.

And I agree it's not an easy fix, and I'm happy to wait for them to solve it - however, it should be a priority. This isn't a minor inconvenience, it's a big problem. They said they're working on it and that's great, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet or heard anything about it since then. It would be nice to be kept updated on what they're doing to solve this issue.


You're assuming there is something to post or update about. This could well be a priority for them, but there are logistical problems that could take months to sort out. They might be programming a system to select carriers on check out, but this requires building off the existing UPS/USPS/DHL/Fed Ex API. They also have a development road map they need to follow. Even if this is a priority, they can't drop everything and work on it. Things don't get done when you take that approach, so it gets added to the list and will be addressed when it's turn comes up.]]> Twopounder 2013-02-17T19:28:42-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62266&th=11181#msg_62266
It is currently difficult enough for Shapeways to deal with keeping all the peices of your order together from separate sub-vendors. Adding a multitude of shipper choices on top of that is going to complicate their internal processes. I can see it requiring nearly double the staff to stay on top of what package goes where.

I know I know, someone is going to declare "it can be done for 'nothing' with software", but that's not entirely accurate. I write software every day. There is always some portion of the operation that requires and depends upon humans.

Yes, I have heard the horror stories, and I feel bad that such things have happened. All that I'm saying here is:
1) Please be patient, it will take time for them to work this out, and I'm not talking days.. it could be many months yet before this gets fixed.
2) Be careful what you ask for. This flexibility may come at a price we're not willing to pay.
]]> stonysmith 2013-02-17T23:10:40-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=62270&th=11181#msg_62270
Glenn
]]> lensman 2013-02-17T23:31:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=63324&th=11181#msg_63324
I understand that UPS has an excellent reputation in the US, however, it is another story up here.
The so called brokerage fees are an quasi legal charge for what the Post office does for free.
I have never had a problem having things sent USPS or any European postal service. I pay for my shipping and I get my package,
UPS have been running this scam for years and I refuse to pay it! And it is arbitrary.
The first package from Shapeways arrived quickly, no problems and NO extra charges. Now, for my $31.00 HP o/400 they are demanding $15.00 on top of the shipping I have already paid.
Must I cancel all my future orders until Shapeways stops usuing UPS?

Gord]]> gordonparker 2013-03-06T02:05:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=63946&th=11181#msg_63946 PeregrineStudios 2013-03-13T01:14:21-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=64846&th=11181#msg_64846

Unfortunately it doesn't solve my problem - I absolutely refuse to purchase from outside into Canada if the only shipping option is UPS. To say that they are rip-off artists is an understatement.

My worst case came from when we stayed at a hotel in California - when we got home we realized that we had left something back at the hotel, we contacted them and they found it and said they would ship it to us free of charge! Which to me was amazing service. Unfortunately, I forgot to tell them to use US Post, they expedited it via UPS instead.

It arrived at our door a couple of days later, and the man in brown said that our cost would be $150! We refused to pay and told him to return to sender. It never arrived back at California - the hotel there was enraged and has since changed shippers.

UPS inside the country (be it USA or Canada or ?) is usually great, they are indeed fast and a very affordable alternative. But when they deliver internationally they are a disaster. The odd time that I missed, or did not realize the shipper was UPS the over all additional cost was anywhere from 50% to 75% higher.

If UPS is Shapeways only shipping option from New York then I really have no option but to cancel what I've already put in my shopping cart and look for another option for my current and future 3D printing needs.

If Shapeways wants to grow, it needs to fix this and fix it soon!]]> rjbeeth 2013-03-25T15:59:26-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=64849&th=11181#msg_64849
Glenn
]]> lensman 2013-03-25T16:29:52-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=64929&th=11181#msg_64929
I just wanted to pop in here and let you know that we hear and share your concerns about shipping options, and about shipping to Canada.

We understand that for some of you the (lack of) shipping options and process can be quite frustrating, and wanted to let you know that we hear your concerns despite not being able to bring "fix dates" to the table as part of the good news just yet.

That said, we have identified a few possible solutions to both problem areas. We do not have an exact timeframe for when we can put them into place as there are a few things with a higher priority under the banner of "Customer Happiness" right now such as fixing/improving the "rejections" process.

Again, we apologize for any frustration and inconvenience and ask that you be patient with us until we are able to resolve said frustrations.

Best,]]> NimlothCQ 2013-03-26T18:50:31-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=64932&th=11181#msg_64932
I just wanted to let you know that I definitely appreciate being kept in the loop like this. To me it's the surest sign that the problem is indeed being looked at, as opposed to just P.R. jargon. I definitely can understand that there are issues you want to work out before this one, and I'm just looking forward to when you have time to fix this one ]]> PeregrineStudios 2013-03-26T19:31:57-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=65496&th=11181#msg_65496 Outrageous! And I still don't have my model!
I don't see myself ordering from Shapeways again until they stop using UPS in Canada.
I thought I would post here before I phone the b@#$%rds and scream at them.

Gordon Parker]]> gordonparker 2013-04-04T19:36:27-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=65943&th=11181#msg_65943
It was great while it lasted, and while I may sell things on here, I simply refuse to buy anything anymore.

UPS with their garbage brokerage fees just ruined it.

Nothing like getting a bill for another $25 in brokerage 3 weeks after the item arrived (which only cost $25 to start).

The last thread was from 2011, and you guys talk about working on it and it may take months? It has been years!

It is time for some REAL progress or wait until a location/competitor opens up in Canada. ]]> lorddragonmaster 2013-04-11T02:58:40-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=65955&th=11181#msg_65955
I have ordered from other places where they use primarily UPS, BUT use USPS for other countries. I am sure there are complication regarding multiple shippers, but I think losing customers is the biggest complication of all ]]> Kimotion 2013-04-11T03:39:05-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67487&th=11181#msg_67487
I buy a lot of stuff from the USA, if you think UPS is expensive you want to look at what USPS charges to post to Europe. Yes I have to pay brokerage fees and it can be very frustrating [£1.80 VAT £10.00 brokerage fee] so it happens everywhere and it is not the carriers fault but your governments rules about you buying from overseas.

There are swings and roundabouts for everybody and I think not one solution fits everybody so shapeways do their best for an all found compromise.]]> 3rdboxcar 2013-05-05T15:29:53-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67489&th=11181#msg_67489 PeregrineStudios 2013-05-05T15:33:29-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67491&th=11181#msg_67491
Would you do work for somebody else and not expect recompense for doing it? Why should UPS collect taxes and forward them to the government at their expense. I suppose they could drop the brokerage fee and just up the shipping rate for everybody to cover the cost of tax collection.

As I said unfortunately there is no one solution for everybody and in Shapeways case UPS works for me, heaven forbid if I had to trust delivery to our Royal Mail, I cant trust them to deliver a letter to the other side of town never mind receiving a parcel from a foreign country.]]> 3rdboxcar 2013-05-05T16:35:46-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67492&th=11181#msg_67492
I also need to reiterate, nobody is suggesting we GET RID of the option to ship using UPS. The problem we have is that right now it is the ONLY option. It's either UPS or nothing. We want options for those of us who simply can't use UPS, that's all.]]> PeregrineStudios 2013-05-05T16:42:39-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67493&th=11181#msg_67493
Another point: they don't accept cash for brokerage fee. Either pay with cheque or credit card. With credit card, it's not swiped or cleared in front of you. They write your credit card number down and a few days (one time, weeks later), it shows up on your credit card bill. The whole thing just feels very insecure.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Give us more than 1 shipping option. For people happy with UPS, keep using it. I think those of us in Canada complaining just want another option besides UPS. I'll take FedEx or USPs over UPS any day. ]]> terenceyan 2013-05-05T16:49:10-00:00 http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=rview&goto=67496&th=11181#msg_67496 stonysmith wrote on Mon, 15 October 2012 01:40

Yes, I feel your pain.. UPS is not my favorite either, but I do know that it's difficult for a multi-national company to get good shipping rates to all locations.

For them to have two separate shippers, I can imagine that the labor in their distribution process has to at least increase by 50%.

Give them time.. they'll work out something.

I do not believe you, for a multi-national company like Mouser a electronic company can offer: UPS, FedEx and DHL to good price to, so that thing about that will be expansive do I not believe.

I can tell you that here in Sweden we most be at home under working time if we not want to have problem with the delivery. If we have the luck to have the phone number to the driver at UPS, it will only help a little for them most drive out and see a locked door. After this I can call the driver the day after to tell him that I are at work and maybe can take the box at work or my unemployed friend can take the shapeways box instead of my.

I prefer this:
1; The nation post-office, I can go over AFTER work and get my box.
2; UPS, as long I have the phone number.
3; DHL
4; Worst case FedEx, really hard to have to deal with.]]> lgrfbs 2013-05-05T18:12:01-00:00