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Beyond Frustrated! [message #44334] Wed, 22 February 2012 21:40 UTC Go to next message
avatar MaxSMoke777  is currently offline MaxSMoke777
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I am so unbelievably frustrated with Shapeways and these ABSURD thickness checkers. I can't get a model printed which I've already printed numerous times before. Not only have I had versions this model printed over a half a dozen times before, but this latest version is the thickest version yet! You can see the page for the model, as well as PHOTOS OF IT IN MY HAND, right here:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/337120/pendragon_i01.html

I've been trying to get a copy for my friend in Milwaukee for over 7 months now! I don't know how many other ways to say it to staff, I HAVE ALREADY PROVEN THIS MODEL PRINTS!!!!!!!!

Now they are rejecting it based on the tapering edges at the base of the wing flaps! Are my dragon wings suppose to have blocky, thick edges? It's a tapered edge for god sakes! If we never had tapered edges, everything would look like blocks!

The model prints PERFECTLY! You can *SEE* photos of it! What is the question here???
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44346 is a reply to message #44334 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 23:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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I completely agree that it is frustrating... But... I would like to pose a question to you. This is hypothetical.. I do NOT know this to be the case for your specific model...
Quote:


What would you say IF you found out that for every one time your model had printed successfully, that it took five separate attempts (loss of operator time) to get it to print right? Would you then ask Shapeways to lose the time (money) to print the four bad prints just to get the one good one? Or, would you tolerate stricter standards? Or, would you tolerate a 5x higher cost because of the loss of time & material?


Again.. this is just simply food for debate.. I do NOT know what happened in your specific case.

I know that I have had several models where the production team sent me a polite note and said "Can you thicken up the handrails at this point.. they keep breaking while printing". I've been glad to re-design every time they asked. This model http://shpws.me/14kT started off with handrails at the suggested 0.3mm, had to beef them up to 0.6mm.

I do feel rather strongly that we need better communication between the designers and the production team... they need to TELL us when some model is particularly troublesome, and we need a way to say "it's okay if small stuff breaks off during cleaning".

Also.. if you haven't already done so, please vote for http://feedback.shapeways.com/forums/111989-shapeways-feedba ck/suggestions/2396166-model-has-been-printed-flag as this solution may help reduce your frustration.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44347 is a reply to message #44346 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 23:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MaxSMoke777  is currently offline MaxSMoke777
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How unusual. In all the time I've been printing with Shapeways I've *never* had anyone contact me about bad prints. I just get bad prints, see that changes need to be made, and resubmit/order another copy. And I've always done this exclusively MY OWN DIME.

I've ALWAYS paid for all of my bad prints, because if there was error in the print, that's my fault and something I can fix. I made 3 versions of the Pen dragon, in 2 different sizes, before I had a print that had no errors. The only time I ever contacted Shapeways about any errors was the time when the teeth just disappeared. That was a data fault on their side; that part of the model just wasn't being accepted by the machine.

In this case though, I had 6 successful copies printed, in 4 other data file versions, with no errors at all. I've been enhancing the model for thickness and durability on my own, even before the last copy forced me to thicken the wings just to appease the second-to-LAST reviewer that bounced my Dragon. And that guy finally let this last version though after the thickening.

Now I have yet ANOTHER person rejecting my model because they say it's not thick enough. How many times do I have to modify and successfully print my Pen Dragon BEFORE SHAPEWAY STAFF WILL STOP ****ING WITH ME???!?!

This is completely ABSURD! Mad
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44354 is a reply to message #44347 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 02:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Roy_Stevens  is currently offline Roy_Stevens
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@Stonysmith, how are you so special that you get polite notes to please update the model? All I get is the notes saying 'this model was rejected', including one that was printed one hundred twenty-eight times previously! (counting multiples up to four in a single file) And when a model is rejected it might as well go into a black hole, because it is locked for updating. I end up having to re-upload a 'new' model, which alienates my customers, breaks links, and drops my models back to the bottom of the popular lists.
Max, you may want to look into other services, the WSF material is very common. Shapeways beats their prices but you may have noticed you are giving up some things in exchange for the lower cost.


Earl Grey, hot.
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44357 is a reply to message #44354 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 03:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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I never said it happened every time.. FAR from it.. I've had PLENTY of rejections! I really was talking more about the other end of the process... stuff that looks okay, passes the official standards, but is particularly troublesome to get OUT of the printer.

It's also about the fact that I'm pushing the size limits to the very bottom of what Shapeways is capable of producing. Your model is easily 10 to 20 times the size of mine. Just imagine what this model did to them?? (look the 2nd picture on that model)

[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2012 03:34 UTC]


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44365 is a reply to message #44334 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 10:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar RalphVdB  is currently offline RalphVdB
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Hi There,

let me take a few minutes to explain you guys our process works.

-Customer uploads file and orders it
-3DFile gets a number, let's say: 1234_v0.stl
- Our production facility receives file and manually checks it
- If file is correct file gets saved in our database
- If file is not suitable for printing Customer Service informs customer about the rejection

Now..this is what happens when a customers re-orders a model which has been printed before:

- Production facility receives the 3D file
- They run it through our database in which the previous printed model names are. Model 1234_v0.stl comes up as a positive hit and is automatically good to go for printing. No need to check any more.

However, in x% of the cases a customer decides after a successful print to update the model. Guess what happens? Exactly modelname 1234_v0.stl will turn into 1234_v1.stl The version number changes ( fairly new).

As soon as the customer orders this file, our production facility runs it through our database..and nothing shows up, because it has a new unique modelname. So the planners check this file manually again. And sometimes they do find errors or thin walls in the model which weren't there before. This can be caused by the adjustment of the model.

Often customers have adjusted their file. Although to them the file looks exactly the same as " the printed" one, to our production facility this is absolutely not the case.

Customer Service always sees a notification when we need to reject a model which has been printed before. When this happens our procedure is:

1) Not reject this orderline
2) Contact production facility with the request to print it anyway since it has been printed before
3)If production facility still rejects the file ( e.g. they need to print it X times before it comes out right. Or design rules have changed .) they do this with additional information.
4) Customer Service then informs the customer with this additional information on why it gets rejected and what they should do to alter their design to that it can be printed.

I would also like to point out this to you: http://feedback.shapeways.com/forums/111989-shapeways-feedba ck/suggestions/2396166-model-has-been-printed-flag

Hope this clears things up for you!

[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2012 13:55 UTC]


Shapeways International Customer Service Manager
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44366 is a reply to message #44365 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 10:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar RalphVdB  is currently offline RalphVdB
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Hi Max,

please check your inbox. I have sent you some additional information about your model Wink


Shapeways International Customer Service Manager
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44372 is a reply to message #44354 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 13:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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johnnylingo wrote on Thu, 23 February 2012 02:41

@Stonysmith, how are you so special that you get polite notes to please update the model? All I get is the notes saying 'this model was rejected', including one that was printed one hundred twenty-eight times previously! (counting multiples up to four in a single file) And when a model is rejected it might as well go into a black hole, because it is locked for updating. I end up having to re-upload a 'new' model, which alienates my customers, breaks links, and drops my models back to the bottom of the popular lists.
Max, you may want to look into other services, the WSF material is very common. Shapeways beats their prices but you may have noticed you are giving up some things in exchange for the lower cost.


Johnny, your item shouldn't be locked after rejection. It should turn off the selected material for which you ordered it in. Maybe turn the model off, but both those things should be able to be switched back on.

If you have any problems with this, you should contact support.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2012 13:47 UTC]


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44398 is a reply to message #44365 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 20:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MaxSMoke777  is currently offline MaxSMoke777
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If a model is only suppose to be cleared once, then why was my model rejected AFTER I tried to reorder a print that was successful? I didn't change the model after that! In fact I was hoping, what you said, was true, because I added photos and customer information because I was *Certain* this time that anyone could order a print of my dragon without problems.
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44401 is a reply to message #44334 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 21:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MaxSMoke777  is currently offline MaxSMoke777
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I uploaded and ordered another version. Hopefully this one will be problem free.

I had the last one sent to me, to verify that the print was good, before making another copy for my friend. If I had more faith in my boxing skills, I would have sent the last one to him directly, but I felt it was worth $60 to ensure that the model wasn't destroyed and he got a perfect copy. This time I'm just sending this new version to him directly. At the risk of tempting fate, I can't see how this one couldn't work.
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44415 is a reply to message #44401 ] Fri, 24 February 2012 05:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Roy_Stevens  is currently offline Roy_Stevens
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Nice description YouKnow, but that's certainly not what I see on my end. Whenever a model gets rejected I am unable to 'turn it back on', nor am I able to update it as even the most simple solid square model gets rejected. And yes, I've contacted customer service about this multiple times with no resolution.


Earl Grey, hot.
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44416 is a reply to message #44415 ] Fri, 24 February 2012 06:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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When they "turn it off", are you re-selecting the various materials?

I commonly have only FUD selected on my models. If they reject the model, they set it "not for purchase", but they also disable FUD. That makes it unpurchasable.

You have to turn on the "For sale to Public" flag, but you also have to turn the various materials on as well.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44417 is a reply to message #44365 ] Fri, 24 February 2012 06:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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So the request listed in uservoice is already implemented?
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44461 is a reply to message #44417 ] Sat, 25 February 2012 07:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar 7777773  is currently offline 7777773
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I had a customer email me recently with a note informing him his order was cancelled because FUD now requires 1mm wall thicknesses - and this was referencing a detail bit, not supporting structure. It certainly is frustrating. I suspect the reviewers may need better education or oversight... in one case I was flat-out told by shapeways that it's a matter of luck which reviewer you get.
My recommendation for now is to look into alternatives; there are other 3D print services where it is a whole lot easier to get your model sent to the printer.
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44531 is a reply to message #44334 ] Mon, 27 February 2012 11:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar RalphVdB  is currently offline RalphVdB
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Hi 7777773,

Shapeways is working hard to come with alternatives. We will introduce these later this year. I know how frustrating this is for you guys, please hang on, we will come up with a solution real soon Wink


Shapeways International Customer Service Manager
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44569 is a reply to message #44334 ] Mon, 27 February 2012 22:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MaxSMoke777  is currently offline MaxSMoke777
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Oh you have GOT to be kidding me?!!!

I made changes to fix, yet again, perceived thinness in my model, and it's been rejected AGAIN! This time its the ears, which have always been thick and strong, but apparently not thick enough for this reviewer.

I'll change it and submit it... AGAIN!
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44571 is a reply to message #44569 ] Mon, 27 February 2012 22:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar 7777773  is currently offline 7777773
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It's been particularly bad lately.
"My recommendation for now is to look into alternatives; there are other 3D print services where it is a whole lot easier to get your model sent to the printer."
Re: Beyond Frustrated! [message #44588 is a reply to message #44334 ] Tue, 28 February 2012 08:29 UTC Go to previous message
avatar RalphVdB  is currently offline RalphVdB
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Hi Max,

please check your forum mailbox. I have pm-ed you about this last week Wink


Shapeways International Customer Service Manager

 
   
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