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Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39063] Tue, 22 November 2011 19:44 UTC Go to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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Let's start out with a comparison of the new Shapeways Full Color Sandstone with the old variation, and a similar product from a different vendor.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03589.jpg

Can you guess which one is which?
On the left we have the old FCS, in the center are prints from another company, and on the right is the new FCS.
Please note that for some reason the new FCS color palettes were printed sideways, which is why you see more printing lines there.

Old FCS:
+ Pro: Good black, good strength
- Con: Poor white, dark colors, sometimes blurred colors, sensitive surface
Other vendor:
+ Pro: Good white, strong surface
- Con: Poor black, inconsistently applied gloss-y surface coating
New FCS:
+ Pro: Good white and black, brightly vivid colors, strong surface
- Con: Poor surface finish in a specific case

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03591.jpg

Check out that contrast!

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03597.jpg

The new FCS is lying on top, if you didn't notice from the great quality. Smile

Now, the only killing issue that occurred in this specific test. The surface which, I assume, was resting on the table, while the print was drying from it's finishing process, has random blobs of stuff and other dust on it. This is something you should take into account, as a designer, as it's not possible to have it floating around to dry. It seems to be an issue only when your resting area is large and flat, if you put an extruded border on the plane it will not be a noticeable issue.

Here follows, uncensored, all detailed pictures from the entire test range with relevant comments where needed.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03600.jpg

The stuff clearly visible above.
Below, same item, other side, no issue of course.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03602.jpg

(Splitting across posts due to image count limit.)

[Updated on: Thu, 24 November 2011 22:12 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39064 is a reply to message #39063 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 19:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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And some other panels, each time front/back. High resolution linked.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03603.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03605.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03607.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03610.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03612.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03614.jpg

Next post will be a series of pictures of the set of items that will be tortured (yes, there's more), then a series of organic shapes (some nsfw included too, because we can). Very Happy


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39065 is a reply to message #39064 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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More pictures!
Another comparison, I'm sure you can guess which one is the new FCS.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03616.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03618.jpg

And yes, of course, you can get a good amount of detail in!

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03622.jpg

(Splitting posts due to image count limit.)


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39066 is a reply to message #39065 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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Following items will be tortured (strength, water, fire, etc) and experimented (polishing, etc) on, videos of that will be available soon!

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03631.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03633.jpg

In the one below, you can clearly see aliasing occurring when your textures are way too large for them to handle.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03641.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03643.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03644.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03645.jpg

Did I mention bright colors yet?

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03647.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03653.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03654.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03657.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2011 20:21 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39067 is a reply to message #39066 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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The pictures don't lie.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03659.jpg

Exactly.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2011 20:21 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39068 is a reply to message #39067 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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And now for some organic shapes.

Another keychain again! This one will be tested as well to see how long they hold out in normal usage.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03663.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03668.jpg

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03676.jpg

The one I had in old FCS ended up like this after long use and many random experiments.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03635.jpg

Glossy hair, indeed. Wink

[Updated on: Tue, 22 November 2011 20:20 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39069 is a reply to message #39068 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 20:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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This post may be NSFW.

Two prints, were in a different orientation in the file, but the print operator went ahead and printed them both in the same orientation.

Toggle Spoiler


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39221 is a reply to message #39069 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 15:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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First test, comparing how well suited the different variations of Dremel's abrasive buffs are for polishing.
This was tested using the Dremel SpeedClic 511S and 512S accessories.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03737_COMPARE.JPG

(video will be attached later)

As you can see, the 511S ones easily grind their way trough the item, while the 512S remains nicely on the surface without doing any serious damage to details.

On the old Full Color Sandstone, it was possible to get a rather shiny result using the fine version, this seems not much different on the new FCS. It is slightly more difficult to get a shiny looking surface, though, as this was likely caused by the wax being spread out as well.

Using the 512S (320 grid) you can easily get rid of the harsh layering, and unpleasant surface feel, while still keeping the roughness, and not losing any detail.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03734.jpg

While you can still notice the layers, they're less pronounced than before, if you compare with the previous pictures. The surface also feels a lot softer than it was originally. This is sufficient in most cases.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03736.jpg

(video of polishing will be added later)

The keychain has been given to a test subject to see how long it holds out in normal usage.

Also some NSFW comparisons below.

Toggle Spoiler


Below is one I gave an extra coating with some matte varnish, after polishing. I don't really like that look, though, shows kind of cheap. Some more different coatings will be tried out as well.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC03743.jpg

(video of this one will also be placed here later)

Next post will contain torture and destruction videos!


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39231 is a reply to message #39063 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 20:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Great Thread !

I like spray coatings - it keeps the models tough and long lasting.
These bunch of guys survived countless curious hands.. i recommend it.

index.php?t=getfile&id=12303&private=0


  • Attachment: PICT0024.JPG
    (Size: 1.28MB, Downloaded 3481 time(s))


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39232 is a reply to message #39231 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 20:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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I'd like to find a reliable way to make the surface look less "sparkly" (as shows in your picture), it looks too much as an afterthought. I'll probably look around for something that fills in the holes of the roughness without showing up too obviously as being a separate layer. There are a few things I have in mind for that, just need to check for some additional alternatives before I blow my budget on more useless things. Smile


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39233 is a reply to message #39063 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 20:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Actually its "sparkly" because i used flash on my camera, its more or less like this on regular lighting

index.php?t=getfile&id=12304&private=0



  • Attachment: PICT0002.JPG
    (Size: 996.65KB, Downloaded 3425 time(s))


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39235 is a reply to message #39233 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 21:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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With the sparkly I mostly refer to the excessive spark that shows from putting gloss on a rough surface, which is an issue depending on lighting conditions, indeed. The problem is that this accentuates the layering even more, which the customer doesn't really like. Smile

Keeping a rough surface like this, looks better with a soft finish than a gloss/matte varnish finish.

To make the gloss/matte coating finish look good, the roughness should be filled in with something before, so that it looks more consistent, and less cheaply handled.

I know it's possible to get a perfectly smooth glossy finish by doing:
- Polish the FCS to get rid of grain
- Apply a generous amount of CA
- Polish the CA layer as well, getting back close to the surface
- (And perhaps add an additional varnish coating, have not tried that yet)
But the CA is a bit unhandy, so I'd like to find an alternative that suits the needs more easily.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 November 2011 21:03 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39237 is a reply to message #39063 ] Thu, 24 November 2011 21:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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I agree.

That other 3d service told me they did a delicate polishing on my model:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0021-1.jpg



But i still added some varnish of my own Wink

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0001-4.jpg

and it is VERY SMOOTH to touch.



http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #39346 is a reply to message #39063 ] Mon, 28 November 2011 04:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AD-Edge  is currently offline AD-Edge
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Interesting results. Smile

Thanks for posting, will be a good future reference.



Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #40982 is a reply to message #39346 ] Sat, 31 December 2011 10:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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The new video with the hammer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZnLFG6llMA

And one with the Dremel abrasive buffs for smoothing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2UCoie1bSE

Also, I can confirm that the mini-figure keychain has not broken yet after a month of normal usage by my test subject. Smile

It's also relatively waterproof, the colors stay just fine after being thrown into the water for a minute (although the strength may go down a bit while it's wet, I have to test that again).

[Updated on: Mon, 02 January 2012 10:02 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #41001 is a reply to message #40982 ] Sat, 31 December 2011 20:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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This is becoming confusing now. (As mentioned in other thread) check the material page and they show a picture of really faded blue (sky blue becomes dirty white), saying that water attacks the ink... but no info if that was before or after the CA, or if the water bath was some seconds or a full day.
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #41049 is a reply to message #41001 ] Mon, 02 January 2012 09:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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With the old FCS it became white due to the wax on the surface and the water reacting poorly, but you could remove that white by applying heat. I didn't see such thing happening with the new FCS.
Video here http://youtu.be/QB5CZ7A-0_w, nothing happens.
Perhaps I should try with a darker object.

[Updated on: Mon, 02 January 2012 09:55 UTC]


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43493 is a reply to message #41049 ] Sun, 05 February 2012 16:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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2 layers of primer + 2 layers of alkyd based varnish

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC04907.JPG


dremel polish + 4 layers of primer + 7 layers of acryl based varnish

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC04902.JPG


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43506 is a reply to message #43493 ] Sun, 05 February 2012 21:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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dremel polish + 4 layers of primer + 8 layers of acryl based varnish + 1 layer of matte alkyd based varnish

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC04923.JPG

PERFECT.
better picture tomorrow.


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43509 is a reply to message #43506 ] Sun, 05 February 2012 22:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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What "primer"? Most of them are opaque.
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43510 is a reply to message #43509 ] Sun, 05 February 2012 22:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC04938.JPG


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43535 is a reply to message #43510 ] Mon, 06 February 2012 13:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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Better picture.

http://img.kaetemi.be/shapeways/640x480/DSC04986.JPG

The noise in the color is caused by printing quality issues, and would probably not show up on a properly printed model.

The roughly exact procedure that was followed on this test piece is as follows:

Day 1:
Polish using Dremel 512S fine abrasive buff; model will feel soft rather than sandy after this
Spray with Motip Plastic Primer, everytime just two quick sprays on front, back, left, right, top, bottom; it'll look wet for a few seconds; not visible afterwards
Wait 1 hour
Spray with primer again
Wait 1 hour
Polish using Dremel again (can probably be skipped, makes no difference).
Spray with primer again
Wait 1 hour
Spray with primer again; you'll still see nothing of the primer afterwards

Day 2:
Spray #1 with Motip Clear Varnish ACRYL
Wait 1-2 hours; you won't see anything of the varnish.
Spray #2
Wait 1-2 hours; you might see some small glittery sparkles
Spray #3
Wait 4-5 hours; the surface will be slightly sparkly now
Spray #4; surface will start showing rough gloss

Day 3:
Spray #5
Wait 4-5 hours; the surface will look like glossy cloth
Spray #6
Wait 1-2 hours; the surface will look glossy, but the stepping of false flat surfaces is clearly visible
Spray #7
Wait 4-5 hours; the surface will look glossy, the stepping will show trough slightly wobbly
Spray #8
Wait 4-5 hours; the surface will look excessively glossy, stepping is nearly unnoticable
Spray with Motip Matte ALKYD Varnish; the surface will immediately look matte, and will stay as it looks now.
Let dry for another 24 hours.

You might need less or more layers depending on your wait times and the print quality of the model.

Will try to reproduce this somewhere around next week maybe.


Kaetemi
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43565 is a reply to message #43535 ] Mon, 06 February 2012 19:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar peterhguk  is currently offline peterhguk
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It's all about preference, of course, but that glossy one looks great. Razz


Peter Hughes
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #43986 is a reply to message #43565 ] Tue, 14 February 2012 07:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Gijs  is currently offline Gijs
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Great post and thanks for the detailed write up about the post processes that you tried. The glossy version looks fantastic, like glazed ceramics, although on this model a matte finish fits better I agree.
@shapeways: when will we finally be able to orient our work the way we want? I think it is the no1 wish for many.



www.studiogijs.nl
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #44016 is a reply to message #43986 ] Tue, 14 February 2012 16:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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Gijs wrote on Tue, 14 February 2012 07:35


@shapeways: when will we finally be able to orient our work the way we want? I think it is the no1 wish for many.


If you feel strongly about this.. add votes to the uservoice entry http://feedback.shapeways.com/forums/111989-shapeways-feedba ck/suggestions/2543810-specify-print-orientation


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #44032 is a reply to message #44016 ] Tue, 14 February 2012 21:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Gijs  is currently offline Gijs
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Thanks for the pointer, added 3 votes. I cannot imagine there aren't more people that want this to happen, hopefully this catches the attention of more users



www.studiogijs.nl
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #48212 is a reply to message #43535 ] Thu, 10 May 2012 19:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akwhitacre  is currently offline akwhitacre
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Kaetemi, do you think this would work well for a model kept in water? I know "in water" is never ideal Razz, but I'm making a snowglobe with a FCS model inside and hope to help the color last, at least for a little while.
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #65170 is a reply to message #43535 ] Sat, 30 March 2013 11:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar shaperaf  is currently offline shaperaf
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Hallo

I received some arenaria full color items and I really like roughness and finish. Is there anyone who succeeded to protect the color at water, keeping the original sandstone surface, rough and dull?

Thanks
Re: Full Color Sandstone test prints [message #73422 is a reply to message #39063 ] Thu, 22 August 2013 01:24 UTC Go to previous message
avatar Ray_Zhou  is currently offline Ray_Zhou
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Great efforts to do all the tests!


Design in mind, while still learning to put it out onto the paper.

 
   
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