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Re: New price structure [message #36332 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 15:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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Bundling models by means of sprues or cages is allowed.

And it might need some research by the community and Shapeways, but should be doable for most models.

Edit:

Based on previous experiences, I am pretty sure Shapeways takes all feedback into account, and they will likely help people where they can to transition as smoothly as possible.

But for them too it is adapt and survive, they were probably losing money using the old (optimistic) price scheme.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 16:09 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36334 is a reply to message #36329 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 16:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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lensman wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 15:11

UPS Standard E6.19 (approx US$8.66)
UPS Express Saver E8.76 (approx US$12.26)

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

So, three important things there; one, the average purchaser pays MORE for shipping, the long-distance buyer pays LESS for shipping and the incentive to BUY more is a 99 Euro OR Dollar minimum purchase.


Are those numbers with or without VAT? SW Europe with VAT is 11.30 dollars (9.5*1.19).
Re: New price structure [message #36335 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 16:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Grimjier  is currently offline Grimjier
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Sorry, left this off last night - is there a timetable that Shapeways is looking at for when they will announce what constituents a set?
Re: New price structure [message #36345 is a reply to message #36331 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 17:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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B1lancer wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 15:52

stop4stuff wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 15:00


Call me an optimist if you like, but I like to think I'm pragmatic and just go with the flow... adapt to survive and all that Smile




Trouble is I can't, it's just not financially possible for me to do so. The only way for me to continue would be to bundle models to avoid the handling charges for each one, but this is classed as "abuse". So there seems little I can do.

It's like throwing a human into a vacuum chamber and as their eyeballs pop out saying "adapt to survive".

Regards,

Jack



Jack,

It can't be as bad as all that, can it?

I didn't think it would be financially possible for me to buy in to offset shipping, but looking at the numbers and selling what I have at home via etsy or eBay (models that I bought in for myself or for photographing) there is light at the end of the tunnel.

What is your YouTube account?
What is your Twitter account?
Facebook?
Blog?
etc.
- I ask as social networking is the way forward in promoting yourself and your models.

Get your stuff out there!

Sorry for the Ra-Ra blabber, however if you cannot see the way forward, you'll never go forward.

I had some real bad shit happen in my life 15 16 years ago and it is only now that I believe in myself enough that can type this and put it down.

Throwing in the towell at this stage is not an option!

[edit] it was 16 years ago. just goes to show how much it screwed me up that I didn't remember how old my son should be

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 17:53 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36349 is a reply to message #36334 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 17:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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stannum wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 16:11

lensman wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 15:11

UPS Standard E6.19 (approx US$8.66)
UPS Express Saver E8.76 (approx US$12.26)

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

So, three important things there; one, the average purchaser pays MORE for shipping, the long-distance buyer pays LESS for shipping and the incentive to BUY more is a 99 Euro OR Dollar minimum purchase.


Are those numbers with or without VAT? SW Europe with VAT is 11.30 dollars (9.5*1.19).


Hhm, I had a quick look. Hard to tell. I can say that a German customer did not have to pay VAT to the Belgian based company...


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: New price structure [message #36373 is a reply to message #36349 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 21:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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There's been some discussion here of sprues earlier in the conversation. I made a few comments in this thread here, but to reiterate in fewer words: sprues could be a great option for the community and for Shapeways, but we're going to need to address it on a material by material basis.

With regard to our current shipping prices, its clear that it causes some pain to certain users. I have to repeat, we're not doing this because we're looking to price gouge and walk away with outrageous margin. We don't like creating a more difficult experience for you.

We've calculated all the costs very carefully, and this is what works in order to make sure our costs as a business are covered. For the time being, Shapeways needs to either stick with the shipping costs as they currently are, or figure out a new arrangement and increase the material and handling cost to cover it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that would be desirable alternative for you guys, would it?

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 21:53 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36376 is a reply to message #36373 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 22:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zoe Brain  is currently offline Zoe Brain
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ana wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 21:53

With regard to our current shipping prices, its clear that it causes some pain to certain users. I have to repeat, we're not doing this because we're looking to price gouge and walk away with outrageous margin.


I'm convinced of that. The present pricing schedule isn't price gouging. They couldn't continue as they were, that's reality.

It just means that from now on, sales outside the US and Europe - sales which had been growing fast - won't happen. That's also reality. "Some pain" doesn't describe it. It's a dealbreaker.

We're trying to find a sweet spot, regardless of cross-subsidies, that maximises profit for Shapeways. Maybe they'll make $10 on a sale in the UK, but only $0.05 on the same sale to Thailand (for example). But if that's what maximises profit, so be it. Profit = Profit per item x no of items sold. Different elasticities of demand and different actual shipping costs means you won't, in general, make the same profit-per-item everywhere. The important thing is to maximise total profit. You get no profit if you make no sales.

If your capacity is limited, then selling in only those places that you have low costs to ship to makes sense. You also raise prices to reduce demand to equal your capacity. But if you have more capacity than needed - the usual case - then as long as you don't actually make a loss on a sale, any sale is good.
Re: New price structure [message #36382 is a reply to message #36345 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 01:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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stop4stuff wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 17:33



Jack,

It can't be as bad as all that, can it?

I didn't think it would be financially possible for me to buy in to offset shipping, but looking at the numbers and selling what I have at home via etsy or eBay (models that I bought in for myself or for photographing) there is light at the end of the tunnel.

What is your YouTube account?
What is your Twitter account?
Facebook?
Blog?
etc.
- I ask as social networking is the way forward in promoting yourself and your models.

Get your stuff out there!

Sorry for the Ra-Ra blabber, however if you cannot see the way forward, you'll never go forward.

I had some real bad shit happen in my life 15 16 years ago and it is only now that I believe in myself enough that can type this and put it down.

Throwing in the towell at this stage is not an option!

[edit] it was 16 years ago. just goes to show how much it screwed me up that I didn't remember how old my son should be


The problem is in the model railway market (market I'm in) there are certain prices that people expect to pay, I was already the high end of those prices and as a result many models I make I have to set the mark up to as little as $1. Now effectively add an additional $15 to account for the increases in the price of the smaller models and postage and it makes the models too expensive.

It would have been nice if shop owners could have been informed of the price changes and given details of exactly what they were a couple months in advance, the final price changes have more or less been implemented over night.

Maybe I can restructure but it'll take time.

Regards,

Jack
Re: New price structure [message #36384 is a reply to message #36382 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 02:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey All,

Thanks for your input here but this is the lowest possible cost we can put on shipping, those of you that have researched will see there are very few ways to make it cheaper. If we are to offer free shipping over a threshold amount, we would have to increase the cost to print, then everyone below that threshold would be subsidizing the shipping for those over the threshold amount, and those that make really large orders would be paying X times shipping.

The current model is the fairest way we can see to reflect true shipping costs.

If we offer other shipping options, it would be unlikely to be significantly cheaper for those most affected (outside US & Europe).

There may be some benefit for those facing UPS import fees, but little advantage on the actual cost.

What we will do is drive down the cost of 3D printing, this is our focus. to make it easier for you all to make what you want.

UPDATE: You may also want to look at your models if you are bundling multiple parts into a file to escape the handling cost, the more of these that we see of this the quicker we will need to implement a way to correct our processing to cover this cost.

There are really not many people doing it at the moment but we would rather see less than more.

Thanks all..

[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2011 07:53 UTC]



Duann Scott,
Re: New price structure [message #36410 is a reply to message #36384 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 12:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar glehn is currently online glehn
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duann wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 02:24


UPDATE: You may also want to look at your models if you are bundling multiple parts into a file to escape the handling cost, the more of these that we see of this the quicker we will need to implement a way to correct our processing to cover this cost.



This is a little confusing for me... I saw in other threads people discussing the use of sprues to bundle multiple parts together.
I have been doing that, for example here:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/308677/008d_ec_350_ecureuil_p air.html
I have put two models of the helicopter together in the same file and connected them with sprues.

Would that be a problem?

Regards,
Luís

[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2011 12:39 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36411 is a reply to message #36410 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 12:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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that is fine so long as you design to best suit shapeways:

http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=6592&a mp;start=0&

I am starting an open source project to automate the creation of grouped models. The more input I can get from shapeways the better as it is possible to make a different layout per material.


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Re: New price structure [message #36413 is a reply to message #36410 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 13:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey Luis,

That is perfect, to us this is one part as it is a single item in the STL with a nice close sprue so we can efficiently nest it in the build.

Thanks



Duann Scott,
Re: New price structure [message #36424 is a reply to message #34810 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 16:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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And once we all OWN a 3D printer we won't have to worry about postage Shocked

The fax machine meant that post offices had a huge drop in demand over the last decade or so... and partly because of that they had to raise prices in order to cover overhead.

Eventually (and by no means overnight) the post office and shipping companies in general will see another decline in demand for service as we print our own products instead of having them mailed to us or picked off a store shelf where it was delivered by train and truck...

...and shipping costs will go up again!

Glenn


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Re: New price structure [message #36425 is a reply to message #36424 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 16:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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I don't know about at home but here in Winnipeg I now have access to a laser cutter, 3d printer(3d systems fdm - does pla and abs), 4 access cnc, vinel cuter, and soon plasma cuter. I think it will not be long before companies like this start poping up in every city.


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Re: New price structure [message #36430 is a reply to message #34810 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 18:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Definitely agree there. More companies like this will exist long before we are all making things at home...


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Re: New price structure [message #36437 is a reply to message #36424 ] Tue, 11 October 2011 20:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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lensman wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 16:29

And once we all OWN a 3D printer we won't have to worry about postage Shocked


.......but the delivery on your own printer will be MegaBucks.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 October 2011 20:22 UTC]


Bill Bedford
Re: New price structure [message #36451 is a reply to message #36437 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 00:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ceramicwombat  is currently offline ceramicwombat
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Duann, many of my models are dice sets which are 6 or 7 dice in one model. Are you folks going to treat these like cufflinks or earrings for handling fees? If not, please come up with a formula for multiple-part model handling fees.

The dice sets can't be sprued and buyers usually want to pick up a full set at once. I'll be uploading more sets soon and they will be multipart files. It would be nice for Shapeways to have an official policy on files like these before I upload them so I know if they are still going to be feasible items.
Multiple Parts in Single file [message #36452 is a reply to message #36451 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 01:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hi Ceramicwombat,

We will give plenty of notice before we make any changes to how multiple parts are treated in a file,

Perhaps a one click button to purchase a set like can be achieved through the API..

http://www.shapeways.com/blog/archives/1027-How-To-Create-a- Shapeways-Shopping-Cart-for-your-own-External-Shop.html

For now we are assessing the number, type and impact of this practice against the current pricing model. We will have an official line in the future.

Thanks



Duann Scott,
Re: Multiple Parts in Single file [message #36454 is a reply to message #36452 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 01:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ceramicwombat  is currently offline ceramicwombat
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Thanks for the response Duann. Even a lower handling fee for additional parts in a model would be good. I'd suggest (using stainless steel as an example) the $6 handling fee for the first item in the file and then ~$2 for each additional item in a file.
Re: New price structure [message #36484 is a reply to message #36437 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 10:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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BillBedford wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 20:21

lensman wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 16:29

And once we all OWN a 3D printer we won't have to worry about postage Shocked


.......but the delivery on your own printer will be MegaBucks.




That's okay, I'll just get my rich neighbour to make one on his printer Very Happy


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Re: New price structure [message #36518 is a reply to message #34810 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 16:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hi all,

I just thought I would point out that this page needs to be updated to reflect the new price structure.
http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/dyeing_sls
Re: New price structure [message #36519 is a reply to message #36518 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 16:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Kasss_Gnarl wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 16:35

Hi all,

I just thought I would point out that this page needs to be updated to reflect the new price structure.
http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/dyeing_sls



Even the Price Info page is out of date http://www.shapeways.com/support/pricing

It says "Order amount
We have had people order products for $1 and for $1250, but most orders are between $50 and $150. The minimum order amount is $25 per order."


There is no longer a minimum order! Was going to wait to see how long it would take them to notice, but this seems as good a time as any to bring it up.

Just shows you how quickly (and incompetently) this new price structure was implemented, not only was it too quick for Shop owners but Shapeways themselves Laughing

[Updated on: Wed, 12 October 2011 16:43 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36522 is a reply to message #36519 ] Wed, 12 October 2011 17:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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The quickest way or reporting any errors that you spot is to jump into Shapeways Live Chat and leaving a message for Barry, 2nd to that is sending an email to service@shapeways.com, or 3rd reporting the issue in the Feedback Forum... wating to say 'I told you so' is not very grown-up, is it?

[edit] removed an f, sorry for typos

[Updated on: Wed, 12 October 2011 17:36 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36592 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 16:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Gregoire_Pfennig  is currently offline Gregoire_Pfennig
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Average price for my 3D printed puzzles: 130$

New average for my 3D printed puzzles: 200$

>.<

I think before implementing a new pricing structure, shapeways should think of a way not to make orders late... (5 last orders)


Previously RubixFreakGreg
Re: New price structure [message #36594 is a reply to message #36592 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 17:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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@gregoboyo I'm sorry that the change in pricing is a hit in wallet for you. Sad

You're absolutely right, we're well aware that if we charge more, or take away free shipping, we need to step up and do a better job of delivering our end of the bargain. We're putting laser-like focus on doing just that.



[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 17:15 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36598 is a reply to message #36594 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 17:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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[redacted]

I am curious what percentage went down.

And please shapeways UPS sucks we nead other options. You shipped my order on time. They delivered 4 days late from what there own web site said it would come in.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 October 2011 17:27 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36600 is a reply to message #36598 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 17:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I see what you're saying mctrivia. Don't want to delve into details, but edited for the sake of making my intentions clear.


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Re: New price structure [message #36601 is a reply to message #36598 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 17:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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i think ana was being sincere and not trying to offend.

it makes sense that they would need money to hire people to get the stuff to us on time.

your customers will not necessarily have to pay the shipping that you are paying. if they live in the US, they will pay 6.50. and people ARE used to paying additional for shipping. when i resell on etsy they pay $5 domestic and $13.40 international. that said, SHAPEWAYS YOU REALLY NEED TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO SHIP.

too many of us have been burned too many times by UPS. i personally love my delivery guy, but i've lived in other places where i received godawful service. plus UPS customer service on our end is really awful. i realize that as a major customer you probably get great customer service. but it doesn't work that way for the rest of us.

ana et al: i still think you should look at the ponoko prime system. i pay them a monthly fee to get lower prices, quicker turnaround, and free shipping on orders over $100. it may not always work out in my favor in the end, but it's psychologically much easier. and it ensures that the most dedicated users get the service they need and remain happy without destroying your bottom line. plus you get a certain bulk payment each month that you can depend on regardless of orders.


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #36602 is a reply to message #36601 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 17:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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speaking of service- i finally got that one ring that was holding up my 1400 order. almost 3 weeks late (6 weeks total). thankfully i had one in stock to send so it went out with the others. but in the future, i think it would be better to go back to notifying us of every late order by email than to go with the current "we don't tell you anything until we ship it" system. it's really frustrating given that all your customer service people are halfway across the world from me.


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #36605 is a reply to message #36592 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 18:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gregoboyo wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 16:52

Average price for my 3D printed puzzles: 130$
New average for my 3D printed puzzles: 200$
I am not sure how you came up with those numbers but they're not right.
The price for WSF has only decreased. It used to have a $1.50 startup fee and $1.50 CM3 price. That startup remained the same and the CM3 price dropped by $0.10 to $1.40 per CM3. That means every WSF model lowered in price (even those affected by the density discount).
Even once you factor in worst case $20 shipping there's no way the price could have increased by $70 on any model.
Re: New price structure [message #36607 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 13 October 2011 19:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oh you are right Tom, it appears my browser was not showing prices with VAT anymore. The prices actually increased a bit for my small puzzles but not the 150+ ones.

Thanks !


Previously RubixFreakGreg
Re: New price structure [message #36819 is a reply to message #36138 ] Tue, 18 October 2011 02:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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roofoo wrote on Fri, 07 October 2011 14:00

Wow, I just had a really crappy experience with Shapeways. I ordered a model prior to October 1, then yesterday I got a rejection notice. They gave me a coupon but now the price for the model is $11.20 more than the coupon! I asked customer service if I can still order at the pre October 1 price since I had my order in before then, and they refused! They are unwilling to give me the deal they gave me last week, plus I will have to pay $6.50 shipping on top of what I already paid. This is just lousy on your part, Shapeways. Evil or Very Mad I hope you tank.


i am experiencing a similar problem...

rejected models that now cost waaaay more.
Re: New price structure [message #36820 is a reply to message #36819 ] Tue, 18 October 2011 02:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar roofoo  is currently offline roofoo
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You should send Duann a message and see if you can get a coupon to cover the extra cost.


http://www.eyephoriadesign.com http://www.shapeways.com/shops/eyephoriadesign http://www.etsy.com/shop/eyephoriadesign
Re: New price structure [message #36822 is a reply to message #36819 ] Tue, 18 October 2011 02:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hey SIXTHSCALE,

email me duann (at) shapeways.com with the info, order number, $ discrepancy etc.

Cheers



Duann Scott,
Re: New price structure [message #36858 is a reply to message #36822 ] Tue, 18 October 2011 14:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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duann wrote on Tue, 18 October 2011 02:55

Hey SIXTHSCALE,

email me duann (at) shapeways.com with the info, order number, $ discrepancy etc.

Cheers


Email sent. THANKS!
Re: New price structure [message #37058 is a reply to message #36822 ] Thu, 20 October 2011 19:11 UTC Go to previous message
avatar SIXTHSCALE  is currently offline SIXTHSCALE
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issue resolved!

thank you shapeways for your amazing customer service!

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