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Re: New price structure [message #35439 is a reply to message #35427 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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I understand that Shapeways want to streamline their operation, but if a user is to put the effort in to design products to make them more efficient to produce they should not be penalised by paying a higher price.

Because many of my models are small the new price means it'll be more work to produce my models to be printed more efficiently but instead of me seeing a benefit I am charged more and Shapeways are increasing their profits.

Why does it cost $9.50 to send a package weighing only a few grams? And why is shipping almost 1/3rd cheaper to the U.S. when I live 1/10th of the distance away?

I order nothing like the number of models from Shapeways I used to; I have hardly added anything public to my shop in recent months and this is because I am disappointed in the way Shapeways are going. I used to love Shapeways but now with the long lead times, increase in prices for my models and cancellation of customers orders because a model is "too thin to print" despite being printed 30-40 times before I am now lacking the enthusiasm to produce more models.

Sad regards,

Jack
Re: New price structure [message #35440 is a reply to message #35438 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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designerica (respectfully) did you view the last SW Live yet?
My summary is that the pricing structure re-vamp is needed for SW to carry on providing their 3D printing services. Yes, it has made me re-evaluate my stance, adapt to survive and all that.

Re: New price structure [message #35441 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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oh and yes, UPS sucks. USPS would be better. i've mentioned before that i'd even rather spend my own time and pick up from the new york office than deal with UPS in some cases. sometimes they deliver in 1 day, but other times they are just unbearable.

as for detecting multiple parts in a file (now that i read the rest of the comments on the forums since the blog comments seem to be shut down), if you start in with that i'll definitely be moving to prometal for my manufacturing because you forced me to design small, thin objects to be able to sell them affordably and now i like my designs and want to continue to produce them as they are, and if you make it impossible for me to produce them affordably i will certainly go elsewhere for my printing services. i already pay ponoko club membership for my laser cutting.


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #35445 is a reply to message #35440 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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no, ana, i hadn't. i've been working like crazy to repackage and mail out the shipments from shapeways that arrived late to me. i spent yesterday afternoon trying reach someone at shapeways about the order that was promised and failed to arrive. then last night was the jewish new year. plus i'm sick. i have not had a chance to watch it all but i just watched some of it.

i understand what you are saying, but it doesn't change the fact that in order to maintain my prices on the small items i have already been producing i would have to continue to bundle them or go elsewhere. i have the facilities to do my own sprew removal on the steel, and i'm getting no benefit from your retail portal.

the last time a co-creator model was ordered from me, i uploaded a file immediately and even though i could see it in your system, it was considered lost and a month later i was asked to upload it again after the customer contacted me and i contacted shapeways. so the co-creator platform doesn't work right, either.

so please, tell us all, what would we be getting from shapeways that i couldn't get elsewhere?

i really really really think you're biting off more than you can chew trying to figure out manufacturing AND retailing at once.


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #35448 is a reply to message #35445 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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me != ana, she's much more pretty and i've got a beard...

sounds like you've been having a rough time... chin up

Re: New price structure [message #35449 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tbmod  is currently offline Tbmod
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I'm guessing Shapeways always uses UPS as the have an exclusive deal with them which gives them access some very keen pricing. So 90% of the customers benefit buy getting cheap posting but a few suffer through UPS excessive service charges and maybe poor service in some areas. I've always found the subcontractor who does my UPS deliveries here fine so I'm in the happy 90%.

Just to give you an illustration of how good a deal Shapeways is getting I looked at sending a small package but the same service Shapeways uses. I was quoted 26 Euros . So if I want to use that service I have to pay 30% more that the 25$ Shapeways minimum order - and Shapeways has to do all the handling and of course actually produce the item for that !

Someone at Shapeways was a mean negotiator when they got their deal !
Re: New price structure [message #35450 is a reply to message #35448 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 18:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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oh ha ha sorry.

i'm really having a tough week. yes. ups screwed up, shapeways screwed up, prometal screwed up, i screwed up, i got sick.


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Re: New price structure [message #35453 is a reply to message #35450 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar roofoo  is currently offline roofoo
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I feel for you Erica, the new pricing scheme has me tearing my hair out too (not that I had much left anyway.) lol.

I understand Shapeways is a business, and needs to keep afloat, but if they alienate customers who design and buy small items, that won't be helping their bottom line either, they will just go someplace else.


http://www.eyephoriadesign.com http://www.shapeways.com/shops/eyephoriadesign http://www.etsy.com/shop/eyephoriadesign
Re: New price structure [message #35456 is a reply to message #34879 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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when i cast something, a larger, more complex item requires more sprues. more sprues= more finishing work.

is that NOT true in this case? does a large complex metal sculpture require only one sprue just like my tiny ring?


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Re: New price structure [message #35458 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SonOfCann  is currently offline SonOfCann
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I can't add anything to the 'miniatures' debate that hasn't already been stated. As much as I understand the position Shapeways are in, I'm sure they can understand why I will be looking elsewhere for a cheaper alternative (and if nothing turns up, I shall be crawling back).

I would like to know if we are to pay shipping fees can we assume our orders will arrive on time? Out of all the orders I've made with Shapeways an alarming amount have been delayed (some a few days, some weeks). It never bothered me because it was free, but once you put a price on something it becomes a service. People don't pay good money for poor service.
Re: New price structure [message #35463 is a reply to message #35458 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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SonOfCann wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 19:16

I can't add anything to the 'miniatures' debate that hasn't already been stated. As much as I understand the position Shapeways are in, I'm sure they can understand why I will be looking elsewhere for a cheaper alternative (and if nothing turns up, I shall be crawling back).

I would like to know if we are to pay shipping fees can we assume our orders will arrive on time? Out of all the orders I've made with Shapeways an alarming amount have been delayed (some a few days, some weeks). It never bothered me because it was free, but once you put a price on something it becomes a service. People don't pay good money for poor service.


Depends on your definition of free. The minimum order was $25 before so that there was enough profit in the models to cover the shipping. And if you check the material status page, there are still a few that are working on fixing delays.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: New price structure [message #35469 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Bunrattypark  is currently offline Bunrattypark
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I don't understand this new CSV at all. I have downloaded it. On WSF models, it tells me that a 95cm3 model, price (column H) 75.63 is price Oct 1 (Column I) 39.53.

This hardly means that a €75 model has reduced in price to €39, so what is the figure in Column I for Oct 1, how is it calculated please?
Re: New price structure [message #35470 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 19:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Read nancy's post about the CSV here http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=6549&a mp;start=0&
apparently there is a calculation error


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: New price structure [message #35479 is a reply to message #35470 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 20:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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I can see the majority of the responses in this thread are negative, I do hope Shapeways take note of this.

Many people built their businesses(Shops) around the old pricing scheme; To publish a set pricing structure and for several years actively encourage people to build businesses around it, then with almost no notice change the pricing structure which forms the core of peoples' shops and businesses is fundamentally wrong in my opinion.

I am really upset by this, Shapeways is built around a community of people who produce the models, without the people to produce the models Shapeways has no business. How can you change the fundamental structure which people have built businesses around?


Re: New price structure [message #35482 is a reply to message #34810 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 21:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Hauk2  is currently offline Hauk2
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How much will postage for Norway be with the new pricing structure? We are a European country, but Non-Eu.

I really hope we fall in the $9,50 category, $19,99 seems a bit stiff....

Regards, Hauk
Re: New price structure [message #35485 is a reply to message #35482 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 22:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Hey B1lancer (and everyone), we've been very aware of the sentiments towards the change, both positive and negative.

I know for certain members of the community it sucks. You've been using Shapeways, you've crafted your models and your shop, you've learned our website, you've figured out all the nuances of our pricing scheme. For some of you, its been close to 3 years that you've been doing this! Now we're jumping in and changing it on you. It's kinda like when your sandcastle gets kicked. Sad

I'm sorry if it feels like we're all stomping around and pulling the rug out from under you. We don't like making people feel that way.

The change in pricing structure is something that needed to happen. When we started out (long before I spent my time at Shapeways) we had no idea how this idea would turn out exactly. My future team just knew that this 3D printing thing seemed incredible and wanted to open it up to people, which meant making it as inexpensive as possible. We set up a pricing structure that we hoped would make it easy for people make and order what they wanted, and it worked.

As we watched over time though, a few patterns started to emerge. Smaller items were beginning to cost Shapeways a lot of money, whereas larger items were bringing in an oversized margin. Ironically, smaller models were much more labor intensive. It got to be clear that larger models were subsidizing the smaller ones, which didn't seem fair. We needed to make sure that the cost of each model was being covered accurately.

Shapeways is the first company taking a crack at opening up 3D printing at this kind of scale, and creating a reliable supply chain for it. There are bound to be huge unknowns that we stumble across. By making changes in the short term, it makes us more able to innovate, and reach our core goal of driving prices back down (and then lowering them further...). I hope you can understand where we're coming from, and will stick around while we figure this out together.


Community Manager | Shapeways

Re: New price structure [message #35486 is a reply to message #35479 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 22:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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B1lancer wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 20:48

I am really upset by this, Shapeways is built around a community of people who produce the models, without the people to produce the models Shapeways has no business. How can you change the fundamental structure which people have built businesses around?

.........and if the small pieces that this 'community' has produced generate 10% of the profits and 90% of the problems, just what would you suggest Shapeways should do?


[Updated on: Thu, 29 September 2011 22:23 UTC]


Bill Bedford
Re: New price structure [message #35491 is a reply to message #35486 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 23:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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BillBedford wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 22:23

B1lancer wrote on Thu, 29 September 2011 20:48

I am really upset by this, Shapeways is built around a community of people who produce the models, without the people to produce the models Shapeways has no business. How can you change the fundamental structure which people have built businesses around?

.........and if the small pieces that this 'community' has produced generate 10% of the profits and 90% of the problems, just what would you suggest Shapeways should do?





It's much more than just Shapeways if I'm honest, it's the whole idea that profit goes before people; That seems to wrong to me. Yes a profit has to be made, but why can't a percentage of that profit be used to subsidise a community and help people?

It's far more upsetting because when I joined Shapeways I could see that many of the ways they did things were inefficient, but the company felt like the community and the platform they provided for small businesses were very much a valued element in the business.

But now many of the users will find their "Shops" inviable due to the price increases, not only does that mean a loss to them but also to their customers. It effects real people, not just stats on a piece of paper.

Now, to me at least, it feels like the community and platform for small businesses Shapeways provide isn't valued for the people, but valued financially as a USP or some other business "Buzzword".

Oh well, I guess Shapeways have to find someway to pay for their 5 million dollar New York HQ. Smile

Kindest Regards,

Jack
Re: New price structure [message #35492 is a reply to message #34810 ] Fri, 30 September 2011 00:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Well I must agree it would have been nice to get a little more notice of the changes, but if the old price structure was not making money, then the business is not viable. And if the business is not viable then sooner or later it will not be trading any more and not only will Ana and the rest of the Shapeways crew be out on the streets but we will have no one to produce our beautiful models.

So to say that the current changes have destroyed your business is a fallacy. If the changes had not been made your business would have been dead at some point in the future anyway.

If we are trying to build serious businesses based on Shapeways(or indeed any other external service) we need to have sufficient flexibility and enough margin to absorb these sort of changes in costs.

On the other hand I do sometimes wish that Shapeways would tell us more about which bits of what are doing is good for them and which bits cause them problems. Most people here want Shapeways to succeed and will try and modify our designs to help - if we know what to do !

Tom

[Updated on: Fri, 30 September 2011 00:40 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #35493 is a reply to message #35492 ] Fri, 30 September 2011 01:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Thanks Tom,

You got it,

We are trying to give you all as much information as possible so that we can ensure we all optimize our work/processes/designs/shops together to make the most of the potential that online 3D printing provides.

I understand more advance notice in future would be appreciated, we will endeavor to do this.

Take a look at the recent blog post which refers to people building businesses off of online 3D printing, Seth Rodin sets the scene and Cory Doctorow really explores it in Makers, worth the read. Or if you are like me and reading is kinda hard to get done, you can get the audiobook.

Awesomeness.

Thanks all



Duann Scott,
Re: New price structure [message #35573 is a reply to message #35493 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 06:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar leorolph  is currently offline leorolph
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I have only just started at shapeways and have made about 5 orders, mostly single objects like rings, and to me it seems (though my calculations could be wrong) that for the ring that cost $40 to print in silver and deliver previously to Australia will now cost $90 (over 100% increase).. that does seem a little excessive of an increase, and this may be the end of shapeways for me is most of my designs.... though just now i am ordering another ring and in the checkout it still says $40 including delivery and it is the 1st october... have the new prices kicked in yet?
Re: New price structure [message #35574 is a reply to message #35573 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 06:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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New pricing vomes into effect from 8am EST (roughly 5 hours from the time of this post)

Re: New price structure [message #35582 is a reply to message #35573 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 12:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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leo rolph wrote on Sat, 01 October 2011 06:41

... for the ring that cost $40 to print in silver and deliver previously to Australia will now cost $90 (over 100% increase)..



If you're in Australia maybe give Ponoko a try. I think they do silver and shipping should be cheaper for you.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: New price structure [message #35584 is a reply to message #35582 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 13:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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I think I may need to try ponoko. They are more expensive listed on there price but cheaper to my door.

Shapeways is super expensive now.

1cc of silve: $50
shiping: $16.50($6.50 from shapeways another $10 from UPS direct)
thats $75.50 for 1cc. Now if they would just offer USPS from the states shipping would only cost me $10 or so. $4 if they gave me an option to just stick it in an envelope because it is not very fragile.


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Re: New price structure [message #35587 is a reply to message #34810 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 13:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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I totally agree with you mctrivia. It's Shapeways insistance on only using UPS that's killing me. I really think that I may have been priced out of buying from SW and then selling elsewhere online - at least to any appreciable amount of sales to make it worthwhile.

I think I'm going to look at what others have suggested here: Get a nice ring or pendant made up in one of the acrylics and take it to a jeweller to get their prices for making a mold and multiple copies in silver.

Glenn


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Re: New price structure [message #35593 is a reply to message #35587 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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there are places that will do your wax printing and casting. you don't have to get the plastic at shapeways either.


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Re: New price structure [message #35595 is a reply to message #34810 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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I did see mentioned in a blog comment that they are working on USPS shipping options.


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Re: New price structure [message #35596 is a reply to message #35593 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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I was of the understanding that the minimum order of $20 was to make it cost effective for Shapeways to ship smaller orders, so how about orders under $20 you must pay shipping, orders over $20 shipping is free like it used to be.

That way Shapeways will make enough to cover their shipping costs on orders under $20 and on orders over $20 it'll still be cost effective for Shapeways to provide the free shipping.

Or if Shapeways are after fewer but bigger orders then why not raise the free shipping cap to $30 or $40?

Would that not make more sense?

[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2011 15:23 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #35598 is a reply to message #35593 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bluelinegecko  is currently offline bluelinegecko
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SERIOUS pricing error on Co-creators!!

Going through and editing my markups with the new price structure today. Too many bugs in the CSV tool for me too deal with so doing them manually. Then I realized this error. don't know if it was already reported but it needs to be fixed right away.

Currently shapeways is listing the price on all my co-creator models by figuring the price on the uploaded model and NOT the MAXIMUM VOLUME I entered in the co-creator template. Many of my designs are showing up cheaper when you look at the model or my store front, and then jump to the correct price only after one clicks on the model to purchase it. Basically they are being advertised at a false lower price and this will surely confused and upset new shoppers.

Guys.. I love the idea of Shapeways. Really I do. If you guys were to go private I'd love to by some stock in the company. But this level of serious bugs lately has really got me concerned like a lot of others lately.

You guys are talking about major changes and weekly updates in the future... Here's my question.... What is the rush? I know there's always going to be bugs from time to time and I am all for improvements and updates, but come on guys whats the big push? I think if you guys just slow down the changes these days and do a bit more testing it would make EVERYONE a lot happier.
Re: New price structure [message #35599 is a reply to message #35596 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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i think you have it backwards. they were only making back their shipping on orders UNDER $25 (the minimum). I don't think it's unreasonable for us to pay for shipping. i think the problem here is with UPS, not with shapeways. UPS blows chunks.

yes, thankfully someone did say they are working on it.

USPS priority flat rate boxes and padded envelopes start cheaper than these UPS rates, and that's not remotely the cheapest option through them. for larger shipments UPS makes sense. for smaller ones, it doesn't. as long as we are given options, it will be fine.

Hopefully that will happen relatively soon. USPS is clearly a superior option w/i the states for smaller shipments. plus they're in danger of going out of business so lets support them.

Having dealt with UPS about 25 times in the last week i can say that they have the worst customer service i've ever dealt with-- which is saying a lot. even when you get through to a person they never seem to know anything about anything. it's incredible. and that's if you're lucky enough to get someone who is in the US-- half the time it's like talking to a door. though i like my local delivery guy, i'm on a mission to get them out of my life entirely. sorry to rang. it was really a miserable experience. worse than verizon and time warner combined.


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Re: New price structure [message #35600 is a reply to message #35598 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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@Bluelinegecko This bug with co-creators was already present in the old product inventory management (don't know if it has ever been fixed there). That's why I always try to upload the model that has the maximum volume (for instance a die without numbering).
Perhaps in the meantime you can upload a model with the appropriate volume (even if it is a cube). Just a workaround though, the bug has to be fixed.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2011 15:44 UTC]


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: New price structure [message #35602 is a reply to message #35598 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Bunrattypark  is currently offline Bunrattypark
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Hear, hear. I have wasted two whole afternoons trying to update my pricing (I have no co-creator models). I have a batch of brand new models to upload, which I have promised to expectant customers, at a costly enough price.

On the very weekend we have a major pricing update, I find Product Inventory Management NOT WORKING. When I add new markups, the total price vanishes, and nothing uploads to the model page. So after two days, I abandon that, and just put flat markup figures directly onto the model page, which refuses to show me the final Euro price, just a useless price ex sales tax and VAT.

THEN I find that even THOSE markups are not saving, and when I log out and check, the earlier price is STILL there.

Shapeways, this is a load of nonsense. I love the service, and absolute kudos for the excellent customer service on the ground. But whoever is in charge of the web facilities needs a kick up the backside, because the whole thing, as far as I can see, is an unmitigated disaster. Every single thing that has been changed has not worked, or has been as flawed and inconvenient as it could be, and I have wasted whole days struggling to understand the new arrangements. If I cannot figure it out, then what hope in hell have occasional customers I might win?

Who decided to initiate a major pricing review the same week that the website and pricing facilities are in a complete state of flux and disrepair?

Shapeways priority right now is to draw a line under these ridiculous changes. Take five days, and guarantee us that in five days this will all be fixed permanently and securely, or if not, will revert to the original design, which at least worked, given it's own limitations. I want to advertise models for sale to customers, and I certainly do not want them coming back complaining that I am advertising one price and they are paying something else.
Re: New price structure [message #35603 is a reply to message #35596 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Jack,

the $25 min order was indeed to make sure we were recovering shipment costs. Raising it to $30 or $40 is an option we looked at, but at the same time it would make large models / large shipments overpriced still.

Making orders over xx$ have free shipping is another option, but again it would raise shipping cost for smaller orders.

In the end, what we have now done is expose the actual cost as best as we can.

- There is per model handling cost (cleaning, sorting, packing)
- There is per volume machine and material cost (the printing)
- There is per order shipping cost.

We need to pay for that, so we figure it's best to expose that to everyone. If makes it very transparent.
It is hard for small models if you look at the relative figures, maybe some go up by >200% and we do not like that either. However if you look at the fact these are 1-off products made especially for you, which you can get starting depending on materials at $3.00 or ~$12 (in metal) we still think this is a great deal.

Also mind that we are working hard to automate / streamline handling and printing, so we will translate these improvements to you.

Multiple shipping options can be a solution for some and we are looking to release that feature sooner than originally planned.

Pete
Re: New price structure [message #35604 is a reply to message #34810 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 15:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar cadalu  is currently offline cadalu
Messages: 94
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I'm actually excited about the silver prices. Most of my models went down in price and the ones that went up only did so by a few dollars. Yes, I have to add shipping costs to my total, but if I place a large order, the shipping cost will be spread out over all the pieces and become negligible. I think this will help people who want to resale elsewhere.

Obviously shapeways needs to add usps options for smaller orders and their international clients.

Ponoko does not offer silver (I couldn't find it) and SW is still cheaper than i.materialize. You could save money by having them cast at a foundry of course but for 3d printing I think the prices are still on target.

Edit - Of course I'm not happy with the stainless steel prices, for the quality I'll just forgo the material all together or shop elsewhere, that increase seemed a little steep.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 October 2011 16:06 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #35606 is a reply to message #35600 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 16:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bluelinegecko  is currently offline bluelinegecko
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Wow... I can't see why a bug like this isn't at the top of their priority list.

If my co-creator was different sized rings, etc., then I could.upload a max volume model. Unfortunately most of my co-creators (pet tags, pendants, etc) have engraved text. Therefore a blank tag has the most volume and a rendering of that I don't feel shows the item the way it needs to be presented.

I'm not about to waste that much time re-uploading a bunch of models that don't show the items to their potential when this should be a simple fix for shapeways to make sure the server is reading the appropriate volume, only to have to change them again once the bug is fixed.

Just another example of what I was saying about moving to quickly. Why are we getting updates on the way the forums and all look when these bugs haven't been fixed?
Re: New price structure [message #35610 is a reply to message #34810 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 16:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MichaelMueller  is currently offline MichaelMueller
Messages: 221
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I made a small ring: old price was $ 3,40. With the new pricing system its $ 8,72. Also I have to add $ 9,50 for shipping!

...Now I get two small rings for $ 26,94.
...Yesterday I got 8 for nearly the same price.

If you are specialized in small objects like rings, this will certainly kill your business.

I understand that its sometimes necessary to increase pricing a little, but nearly 400% is not cool!


Michael Mueller
www.pookas.de
Re: New price structure [message #35611 is a reply to message #35606 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 16:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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working on the co-creator bug right now!
Re: New price structure [message #35612 is a reply to message #34810 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 16:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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anyone at shapeways-

i'm still not clear on the steel "handling" aka startup fee. if i made a really complex and large steel model, wouldn't it have more sprues than a small one? wouldn't it require more complex cleaning and processing? if i put 2 rings in a file, therefore dividing the startup between the two, i realize i am doubling the work for you in theory, but is it really twice as hard to handle two small rings as it is to handle- say- one of bathsheba's large sculptures?

can someone explain this to me?

erica


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #35613 is a reply to message #35612 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 17:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Erica,

of course there are small differences from design to design.
However these have only a small impact on the total handling cost. The handling involves:
- model administration (check whether we can print etc)
- cleaning
- sorting
- packing

and these actions are independent from the complexity or size of the model.

Pete
Re: New price structure [message #35614 is a reply to message #35612 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 17:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar neuralfirings  is currently offline neuralfirings
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Hi Erica,

You are right there are some parts of the Stainless Steel labor process that does increase with size, such as the stilts you mention. That is indeed baked into the /cm3 price. However, there are handling costs baked into processes like placing file optimally in tray, which is really size agnostic; sorting items after they come out of the tumbler, which is size agnostic as well. Like many simple models, it doesn't capture 100% of the use cases, but it does capture a good amount of them.

Second, there are bigger structures that require less stilts due to the nature of the model's geometry. From what I understand, the stilts to model ratio is not exactly a linear formula (ie 1 stilt/1 cm3).

Also with processes like depowdering, smaller structures tend to be more fragile, which means more time but also higher breakage rate. Breakage => reprinting => more printer time, more material => most cost.

I hope that clears up some of the mystery. Let me know if you have any more questions?

Thanks,
Nancy

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