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Re: new model page [message #35927 is a reply to message #35914 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 13:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jlevine  is currently offline jlevine
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Hey all - we are working on the co-creator pricing issues as #1 priority.

- Josh


VP of Engineering | Shapeways
Re: new model page [message #35928 is a reply to message #35927 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 13:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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what about the truncated description problem. that should be a really quick fix.


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Re: new model page [message #35934 is a reply to message #35928 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 14:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aegidian  is currently offline aegidian
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mctrivia wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:29

what about the truncated description problem. that should be a really quick fix.

Fixing it in code is easy - fixing it in the head of whoever thought truncating the description was a good idea, that, I suspect, is trickier.
Re: new model page [message #35935 is a reply to message #35925 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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mctrivia wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:16

I see 8 is suposedly fixed. How do I add stuff to shop categories. Can't find it.


Shop categories are on the lower right (below keywords) of the model edit page for models that are for sale and available to the public.

Re: new model page [message #35936 is a reply to message #35927 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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jlevine wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:21

Hey all - we are working on the co-creator pricing issues as #1 priority.

- Josh


Thanks Josh... any news on any of the other items for the model page?

Re: new model page [message #35939 is a reply to message #35935 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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i guess it makes sense that it is not on for sale but not available to the public. just means I need to make my excel sheet more complicated Sad


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Re: new model page [message #35940 is a reply to message #35936 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jlevine  is currently offline jlevine
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stop4stuff wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 15:04

jlevine wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:21

Hey all - we are working on the co-creator pricing issues as #1 priority.

- Josh


Thanks Josh... any news on any of the other items for the model page?




Here's the high-level news:

1) We are taking all the unresolved issues from this thread
http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=6411&a mp;prevloaded=1&&start=0

2) We are prioritizing based on all your feedback and our business needs
3) We are fixing at the pace where we can accurately test
4) We are releasing at least weekly

We will do our best to announce fixes per release and to match up the names of our release notes with the names you've given in the bug tracking thread in the Official Announcements section.

We are also planning on enabling a feedback agent for bugs that will take this work of assembling and monitoring the status of bugs off your plate and out of the forums.

Right now the word in the office is "User Voice".

Thanks,
Josh



VP of Engineering | Shapeways
Re: new model page [message #35941 is a reply to message #35940 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Hey guys, I wanted to address some of your feedback about the "More Info" button to expand model descriptions.

This is an intentional move made by our UX team to make the shopping process easier for new site visitors. While I can imagine that it might be a frustrating change for some of you, here's why we're doing it: Research has shown that people scan online and that the "inverted pyramid" style of writing works best to engage users.

We're not looking to control how you express yourself -- we wanted shoppers to have the option of opening up a full description, and engaging with your lovingly written prose, but if you're a shopper who's looking around casually, having a tidbit of key info to engage with is more likely to pull me in and make me want to "get to know" your work better.

We're sticking with this for now, but I hope the reason for it makes a little more sense.


[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 15:29 UTC]


Community Manager | Shapeways

Re: new model page [message #35943 is a reply to message #35941 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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The problem is you fill the page with usless info when the description is our real chance to sell the product. You do not need to list materials available in twice. Why not give us more room to sell ourselves. Let the user scroll down and see the info.

We now have HTML input which means we can put extra pictures, flashy text, all the things we need to sell our products.

Cutting off the text right before some key info where it looks like you finished is really bad. And having it the way you set up that some times happens.

Maybe give us the option to show with more already pressed or not.

It is our products to sell why not let us decide what better represents our products.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 15:39 UTC]


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Re: new model page [message #35944 is a reply to message #35941 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar fx  is currently offline fx
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If a truncated description is that good, I'm really wondering why eBay, Amazon or Aliexpress and all other other e-commerce sites I'm aware of have not already adopted this ?

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 15:40 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #35945 is a reply to message #35941 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Hi Ana,

Thanks for the enlightenment... but... for some of us getting the sales pitch into a line or two isn't how things are done. Ok for headlines maybe, or for limited-character-count-social-networking-text-box, but the description is what it is, a description.

And as mentioned... other selling sites don't cripple the user creativity with limited blurb.

If things are changing like you say, how's about a tutorial showing how it needs to be done?

Cheers,
Paul

[edit] I just actually looked at (well, 'scanned') the wikipedia page... it relates to journalism (you know, news stories) not product information.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 15:50 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #35946 is a reply to message #35945 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 15:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bluelinegecko  is currently offline bluelinegecko
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No kidding. If it was a matter of getting useful information out to the shopper then why do the "keywords" take up 25-35% of the visible page? They don't even need to be visible to shoppers, especially not that large. Their only real function is to draw web crawlers to the page. Hell, I added a bunch of common spelling errors to mine to try to bring in more traffic. How about giving us full descriptions and making the keyword section expandable? lol
Re: new model page [message #35947 is a reply to message #34326 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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I agree with the reasoning for the short description, but I see that is is implemented in a way that harms communication more than it helps. We almost had an effective implementation with the old co-creator template. There was a main description (which should be short and sweet), then an extended description. The problem then was that the extended description always showed. It would be best if we had two fields, one for the short description, and one for the extended description that has info about the model, ordering, sizing, etc. We could implement this ourselves by having a short description, some breaks, then a new paragraph. Unfortunately the four lines we are given is just not enough. Can we agree on a compromise by making it, say eight lines, then we will do the work of separating the two descriptions? That should be very easy to do.


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: new model page [message #35949 is a reply to message #35947 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Aaron, we don't get n amount of lines, the size is height in pixels, here's an example of how a newspaper style 'pyramid' setup looks as the description. Sorry, it doesn't work.

[edit] and I can't edit it Sad

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 16:20 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #35950 is a reply to message #34326 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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I would *REALLY* appreciate working google analytics on the model page.

Tyia!


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Re: new model page [message #35951 is a reply to message #34326 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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That's fine. More pixels, please.

One thing I noticed about the broken analytics is that it allows me to compare the number of model visits vs. shop visits. FYI, about 5% of the people who look at my models visit my shop.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 16:28 UTC]


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: new model page [message #35953 is a reply to message #35950 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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So here's the kinda big picture philosophy behind it -- Shapeways is an online marketplace which means we need both buyers and sellers to be healthy and thriving.

We do get that for some of you guys, you don't get to your primary pitch until you're a couple lines in. The thing is, based on a lot of research, if I as a shopowner wait until a couple lines in to hit my main point, chances are I've already lost the customer's attention. Since we want to grow the overall shopper base, and our UX team has looked into this type of user behavior, we're going to default to the way people seem to be behaving online at large, rather than trying to force shoppers to wrap their heads around the specific way we're doing things.

On a similar note, limited-character-count tidbit-driven social networking text boxes is what connects huge numbers of people on the internet right now, and we're trying to harness that.

Finally, some of the things you guys mention, like the big keywords section are actually only a "for now" thing, and hopefully, as parts of the bigger design strategy are rolled out, it'll be replaced with things that make good clear sense to you.

P.S.
@Paul a tutorial you say? Like on how to orient the information? Hmmm...


Community Manager | Shapeways

Re: new model page [message #35954 is a reply to message #35944 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AotrsCommander  is currently offline AotrsCommander
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fx wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 15:37

If a truncated description is that good, I'm really wondering why eBay, Amazon or Aliexpress and all other other e-commerce sites I'm aware of have not already adopted this ?


I'm inclinded to agree. You should be looking at what big e-companies (like ebay and Amazon in particular) do; even the chap who wrote that webpage you linked apparently likes Amazon. (And I'm a little concerned about it quoting the date as being from 1997...)

ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

So here's the kinda big picture philosophy behind it -- Shapeways is an online marketplace which means we need both buyers and sellers to be healthy and thriving.

We do get that for some of you guys, you don't get to your primary pitch until you're a couple lines in. The thing is, based on a lot of research, if I as a shopowner wait until a couple lines in to hit my main point, chances are I've already lost the customer's attention. Since we want to grow the overall shopper base, and our UX team has looked into this type of user behavior, we're going to default to the way people seem to be behaving online at large, rather than trying to force shoppers to wrap their heads around the specific way we're doing things.


But that's not how Amazon and ebay do it. Or, for that matter, any of the places I do my shopping regularly do (and I almost exclusively use the net for my purchases these days, including groceries.) I am am FAR more inclinded to trust their operational prodcedures.

ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

On a similar note, limited-character-count tidbit-driven social networking text boxes is what connects huge numbers of people on the internet right now, and we're trying to harness that.


One of the things I first thought when I saw the new page layout was it looked like it was trying to emulate youtube or twitter and it disturbs me a bit to find out that was true.

Me, as a customer - never mind about me having a Shapeways shop for the moment - I really don't want to be using a site that looks more like a social networking site than Sainsburies.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 16:49 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #35956 is a reply to message #35954 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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Aotrs Commander wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:36

fx wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 15:37

If a truncated description is that good, I'm really wondering why eBay, Amazon or Aliexpress and all other other e-commerce sites I'm aware of have not already adopted this ?


I'm inclinded to agree. You should be looking at what big e-companies (like ebay and Amazon in particular) do; even the chap who wrote that webpage you linked apparently likes Amazon. (And I'm a little concerned about it quoting the date as being from 1997...)

ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

So here's the kinda big picture philosophy behind it -- Shapeways is an online marketplace which means we need both buyers and sellers to be healthy and thriving.

We do get that for some of you guys, you don't get to your primary pitch until you're a couple lines in. The thing is, based on a lot of research, if I as a shopowner wait until a couple lines in to hit my main point, chances are I've already lost the customer's attention. Since we want to grow the overall shopper base, and our UX team has looked into this type of user behavior, we're going to default to the way people seem to be behaving online at large, rather than trying to force shoppers to wrap their heads around the specific way we're doing things.


But that's not how Amazon and ebay do it. Or, for that matter, any of the places I do my shopping regularly do (and I almost exclusively use the net for my purchases these days, including groceries.) I am am FAR more inclinded to trust their operational prodcedures.

ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

On a similar note, limited-character-count tidbit-driven social networking text boxes is what connects huge numbers of people on the internet right now, and we're trying to harness that.


One of the things I first thought when I saw the new page layout was it looked like it was trying to emulate youtube or twitter and it disturbs me a bit to find out that was true.

Me, as a customer - never mind about me having a Shapeways shop for the moment - I really don't want to be using a site that looks more like a social networking site than Sainsburies.



I missed the fact a 14 year old article is quoted. people use the internet a lot differently today then they did in the past. People do scan but they look for the flashy pictures and videos which is completely cut off now. Then things were mostly text based.


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Re: new model page [message #35958 is a reply to message #34326 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 16:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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As long as we're condensing information here, this seems as good a place as any to discuss the description. I should note though that the ultra-condensed social networking format being referred to is applied when a large number of posts are aggregated onto a single page, not after the user has already indicated their interest by clicking on the product. In this case, the 'fewer clicks' principal is more appropriate and is the very first thing one learns in Information Architecture.

Here is my format:

First sentence: The (Title of model) is a (adjective)(recognizable product category). If the product has a characteristic that separates it from most products in that category, it is important enough to include that in the first sentence after a comma.

Second Sentence describes function, purpose, use, appearance or other characteristics that are usually already apparent in the image, which reinforces the general impression. This is a lot like saying someones name while looking at their face to mentally link the two together.

That's it for the basic description, but unfortunately I am not good at expressing my ideas using only Television Vocabulary. I like to spice it up, because unique language aids in retension (as long as it is comprehended). For me, these two sentences can easily exceed four lines, but if the person didn't want to read them they wouldn't have clicked the product!


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: new model page [message #35964 is a reply to message #35958 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 17:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Since this has really gotten into a discussion surrounding the specifics of the "More Info" button, and how information is presented, I'm going to create a new thread.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 17:51 UTC]


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Re: new model page [message #35969 is a reply to message #35953 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 18:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

So here's the kinda big picture philosophy behind it -- Shapeways is an online marketplace which means we need both buyers and sellers to be healthy and thriving.

We do get that for some of you guys, you don't get to your primary pitch until you're a couple lines in. The thing is, based on a lot of research, if I as a shopowner wait until a couple lines in to hit my main point, chances are I've already lost the customer's attention. Since we want to grow the overall shopper base, and our UX team has looked into this type of user behavior, we're going to default to the way people seem to be behaving online at large, rather than trying to force shoppers to wrap their heads around the specific way we're doing things.

On a similar note, limited-character-count tidbit-driven social networking text boxes is what connects huge numbers of people on the internet right now, and we're trying to harness that.

Finally, some of the things you guys mention, like the big keywords section are actually only a "for now" thing, and hopefully, as parts of the bigger design strategy are rolled out, it'll be replaced with things that make good clear sense to you.

P.S.
@Paul a tutorial you say? Like on how to orient the information? Hmmm...




Yes Ana,

A tutorial would be good for those of us who don't know how to write snappy advertising style headlines for a description that is meant to be a 'social' type blurb.

Social networking tidbit driven stuff is fine for the social networking tidbit type sites (which incidentally allow a user to summarise the information displayed themselves and provides the facility to link to a full article), but for a sales page, all of the information needs to be available to the viewer.

I, for one, do not feel comfortable trying to summarise what I am trying to say in fewer words than I do... It takes me long enough to get what I want to say down anyway without the added pressure of confomring to some kind of elitist ethics.

Any chance of starting new threads for all the other issues too?

Wink
Re: new model page [message #35985 is a reply to message #35953 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 20:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aegidian  is currently offline aegidian
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ana wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 16:35

... limited-character-count tidbit-driven social networking text boxes is what connects huge numbers of people on the internet right now, and we're trying to harness that.


That'd be great if you want to be Twitter. But you're not - you are a sales business and the model pages are the pages that should be the last place people arrive at before they click 'BUY ME'.

Very short descriptions are what should appear on social networking sites - with links to the model description page. The customer has already clicked a [+]More Info link to get to the model page - they should NOT have to click one once they get there.

But, to take your argument and summarise it - SW UX experts are right and the UX as expressed by people here is wrong.

That's stubbornly wrongheaded. Please reconsider.
Re: new model page [message #36007 is a reply to message #34326 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 00:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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50 has morphed, units go after the numbers (fixed), but numbers don't change (new bug).
Re: new model page [message #36009 is a reply to message #35927 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 01:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jlevine  is currently offline jlevine
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jlevine wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 13:21

Hey all - we are working on the co-creator pricing issues as #1 priority.

- Josh


This has been fixed - please let us know if
you see any more oddities with co-creator pricing.


VP of Engineering | Shapeways
Re: new model page [message #36011 is a reply to message #34395 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 02:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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clicking on "cm" button does not do anything. still shows in. This is huge problem as you are lying about dimensions which could cause legal issues if someone feels they have been financially harmed.

[Updated on: Thu, 06 October 2011 02:29 UTC]


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Re: new model page [message #36018 is a reply to message #36009 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 06:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Hi Josh,

Co-creator is not quite fixed... choosing BSF on the model page and then heading to personalize, the materials drop down still shows the default material.

Also in IE8.0, the co-create edit box is a bit off the screen.
index.php?t=getfile&id=11309&private=0

And as noted, changing the units of measurement doesn't dynamically change the number, but the correct dimensions are shown after a page refresh.

Paul

[edit] and trying to read forum posts at 7:30am isn't doing my eyes any good with the poor contrast between text and background Sad

[Updated on: Thu, 06 October 2011 06:48 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #36019 is a reply to message #36018 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 07:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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If your browser has extensions like Firefox's Stylish, you can force black text in forums with one setting that contains:
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);

@-moz-document url-prefix("http://www.shapeways.com/forum/") {
  body {
    color: #000 !important;
  }
}

Other useful extension for this forum is Autopager, create a new setting and make sure the fields have the following:
URL pattern: http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php*
Link XPath: //a[@class='PagerLink' and (text()='›')]
Content XPath (current, past week it was different, and better): //div[@id='udOuterWrapper']/table[3]
Re: new model page [message #36021 is a reply to message #36019 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 07:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Thanks stunnum, I can turn off colours altogether and that makes things much worse, and under accessiblity, I can specify my own style sheet, but I haven't a clue about that.

Re: new model page [message #36031 is a reply to message #36021 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 11:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Found another bug.

Happens in IE8.0 and Firefox. (WinXP) - not tried Chrome.

When not logged in and viewing a model page, a load of code appears at the bottom of the page.

index.php?t=getfile&id=11312&private=0

Added as #53

Re: new model page [message #36042 is a reply to message #36031 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 13:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jlevine  is currently offline jlevine
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stop4stuff wrote on Thu, 06 October 2011 11:07

Found another bug.

Happens in IE8.0 and Firefox. (WinXP) - not tried Chrome.

When not logged in and viewing a model page, a load of code appears at the bottom of the page.

index.php?t=getfile&id=11312&private=0

Added as #53


Is this still happening? I cannot reproduce.


VP of Engineering | Shapeways
Re: new model page [message #36049 is a reply to message #36042 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 15:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Yes it is still happening, try logging out and clearing cookies first, then heading to a model page (my browsers are set to clear cookies on exit)

[edit] ooo... lovely darker text colour back again Smile

[Updated on: Thu, 06 October 2011 16:48 UTC]

Re: new model page [message #36116 is a reply to message #34326 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 08:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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G Analytics on model page seems to be working again!

Awesome! Very Happy


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Re: new model page [message #36120 is a reply to message #34326 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 08:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Bathsheba  is currently offline Bathsheba
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Yes, I see GA hits starting mid Wednesday. Thanks.


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Re: new model page [message #36172 is a reply to message #34326 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 19:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Bunrattypark  is currently offline Bunrattypark
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Er, how do I add or remove a model from a shop section? I see no mention of shop section on the model edit page. Many thanks...
Re: new model page [message #36177 is a reply to message #34326 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 20:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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FYI, Josh, I got some page gunk too.

Signed out, XP2, Mozilla 4.0.1

index.php?t=getfile&id=11337&private=0

  • Attachment: page gunk.png
    (Size: 11.33KB, Downloaded 183 time(s))


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: new model page [message #36179 is a reply to message #34326 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 20:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Re: new model page [message #36187 is a reply to message #36177 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 21:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jlevine  is currently offline jlevine
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aeron203 wrote on Fri, 07 October 2011 20:00

FYI, Josh, I got some page gunk too.

Signed out, XP2, Mozilla 4.0.1

index.php?t=getfile&id=11337&private=0


Team and I were able to reproduce. We've cleared some caches at the USER level (o_O) and the problem is now gone for us. Please ping me in PM if you still see the gunk.


VP of Engineering | Shapeways
Re: new model page [message #36233 is a reply to message #34326 ] Sun, 09 October 2011 06:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Description appears as thin column, but only for own models, private and not for sale, in view mode, not edit mode. New? Browser specific?
Re: new model page [message #36237 is a reply to message #36233 ] Sun, 09 October 2011 08:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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stannum wrote on Sun, 09 October 2011 06:27

Description appears as thin column, but only for own models, private and not for sale, in view mode, not edit mode. New? Browser specific?


Yep, can confirm this happens in both Firefox and IE8.0.


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