New Material: PLA

Hey All,

We have some exciting news, Shapeways is now adding PLA to our material portfolio as a maker material.

Check out the blog post here and the material page here.

What are you going to order in PLA?

Thanks for the Info.
Interesting, but what machine do you use for this material? Ultimaker? Makerbot?

Yeah, same question as Ray_Zhou.

And my question is, why isn't Shapeways using dissolvable supports?

I have three of these FDM machines ( Two Cubex Duos and one Cubex Treo) so I won't be ordering anything, but I could see making products based on PLA or ABS if Shapeways were to ever offer that. Well, provided the price was right that is.

I can guess an answer for my question, but want to hear your thinking.
Why are you interested of knowing the machine(s) we use?

simply because for other material, you told us which machine you have, at least sometimes I asked and got answer. Just want to know.

In the past, we have revealed specific printers since the material offered is only available on specific machines.

However, since this is a general material available on many different printers, we are not revealing the specific printers being used. We are not committed to any one machine and these could change in the future.

Oh, I see. so probably there will be several different machines working on it? There shouldn't be too much variation I assume.

I want to know because some machines print better than other machines. Though I have three of these machines, I might consider ordering in certain situations if your machines can print at a higher quality than my machines.

Did any of you see my question about dissolvable support material?

We're committed to the quality of the end products and keeping them consistent. Quality of machines out there does differ but ultimately its not the machines themselves but how they are operated. As the launch ramps up we're going to keep focusing on scaling up and standardizing the quality of PLA parts as we would any other material.

I did see your comment about dissolvable supports, but I don't really have anything to add other than that we're always on the outlook for neat ways to improve quality and know that removing support material manually can be a big pain.

That's what I would have thought until I saw prints coming off a Stratasys uPrint SE Plus produced by an inexperienced operator. Not PLA, ABS rather, but the quality was better than anything I've ever seen. They do print in PLA, but it's used as a dissolvable support material.

I guess by not saying what machines are being use you guys are embarrassed to say. hehehe Let me guess, something from Printrbot? HAHA! It's ok with me, I'm not too terribly interested.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes being that Shapeways offered FDM before years ago and then pulled it.

Not knocking Printrbot, they actually have a line of very nice machines for the price.

After these information being discussed, it's actually good to know if there is certain type of machines being used. Since some of the machine can print 2 materials, even if it's not for the dis-solvable support, it can be used for dual color or similar type of projects. Lower cost than some of the full color options ? Or maybe different mechanical property?

It seems that PLA will have a cost advantage over wsf for large models that might suffer from bloated machine space costs due to "fluffy" geometry. For smaller things like coasters I'm not seeing much difference in price. Which leads me to ask is this PLA stuff good for coasters? It must be water resistant but is it waterproof? Have there been any soaking tests in a bucket of water overnight or a month to see how it stands up to moisture?

Please include some images of a prepped models with generated supports in the design guide page. It would be immensely helpful in designing model for PLA print. I just went through half a dozen revisions on a simple model over the past week, time I would have saved if I had a rough idea of how supports are generated and placed.

The automated check system is practically useless for PLA as it doesn't account for the additional support structures required.

I really don't see this catching on to be completely blunt and honest and it seems late in the day to be offering this material and process of FDM printing. I wouldn't class FDM as a high-end output and was completely confused why SW are adding this to their range.

I think with an organisation as large as SW there shouldn't be any 'masked' information as to which printers are being used...this should be open for all to see so that informed choices can be made.

With reference to machines all printing the same quality 'it's just the experience of the operator' - this is a completely misleading and untrue statement, MOST people having some knowledge of 3D printing will know that there is a definite difference in output between FDM printers.

I'd love it if PLA were available as a material that people could order for products (not just my own prototypes). Here's an example that might be interesting as a test case and that brings up some issues.

Consider this model: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1565383

Thoughts:

* I could imagine having this up in my store and wanting customers to order it in PLA. I have a lot of models of this sort of "fun" type that would do just fine in PLA.

* In my opinion, the feel and handling of this print would actually be better in PLA than in WS&F; it's a small toy and the plastic feel is nice as the pieces move and fit together. Also PLA doesn't get as dirty, is very durable, etc.

* This model prints very well in PLA and in fact is tested in and optimized for printing in PLA, with .15mm layer height. Some of my models are optimized for different layer heights and supports, or even custom settings that would be hard to provide options for in general on your site. If I had the opportunity to provide gcode instead of STL files then I could use those types of settings; not sure if that is available but that's a thought.

* Taking this a bit further, if we are to submit STL files then it would be helpful to know what layer height your printers are set to, and in some cases even the brand of printer, to know if my model will be reliable on that printer. For example I have a model that works well on Rep2 and UM2 printers but not on Afinias; I have other models that the Afinia rocks but that a Fifth-Gen Replicator can't handle, etc. That's an edge case but for hardcore PLA designers this knowledge could be of use.

* For a customer using the 3D Hubs app over on Thingiverse, to order just one of the puzzle sets of this model in PLA would cost approximately $5, plus $5 setup fee - so after the setup fee you can order multiple copies for just $5 each. Notice that this is the price for the customer, after all markups (but before shipping costs).

* To print this same design in WS&F on Shapeways is $26 even before designer markup, which is too pricey for a product like this.

* To print this same design in PLA on Shapeways is $55 (again, no markup), presumably because of the $7.50 per-part fee. Unlike printing in WS&F I can't reduce the number of parts by enclosing in a net (unless I want a lot of supports), so I'm stuck with this fee. If PLA were to be for anything other than prototyping then I would recommend reconsidering the per-part fee structure.

I'm excited at the possibilty of being able to offer some of my models from Thingiverse (thingiverse.com/mathgrrl) on Shapeways, in PLA, at some point. I won't be ordering any prototypes in your current pilot because I have my own 3D printers already, but I am very interested in the possibility of this becoming a material that customers can select for my models at Shapeways.

Let me put in a positive word for PLA as a material other people - other than the maker - can order. I just found myself in this problem too, as I designed a reproduction of a really difficult-to-find tachometer for a '68 Plymouth/Dodge recently.

The beauty part that you see in the dashboard is FUD, but the business end in the back - the ugly bit that doesn't have to look good (but must be strong) - is PLA:

By the way, the character from Thomas the Tank Engine back there is a beautiful example of laser-cut acrylic mixed with some major Frosted Ultra Detail parts:








And side-by-side with an original from '68:



Here's a whole build thread about it on one of the Mopar forums - only one of the guys on the entire forum seems to have ever considered 3D printing (and never actually for his car), but it's starting to get some guys curious and interested:
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...ach-on-the-cheap-or-near-to-it-anyway.130739/

This said, quite a few fellows I know want to get a few of these for themselves, and I'd love to offer the two parts on Shapeways for them, but without the PLA part available, I'm dead in the water - and it's much cheaper than the WSF part, which I don't trust as much for long-term durability stuffed behind a dashboard cluster.

I might add, the PLA part printed PERFECTLY too - no reason to believe that the part would fail a future print..

Thanks for the consideration on this.

-Kurt

Why is PLA better than Nylon12 for such tasks?

True, WSF would probably do the job, though I wouldn't be surprised if that 176 Fahrenheit temperature could possibly be reached out in Arizona, if cooking right under the steel dashboard out in the sun, under the windshield - no less.

That, and it just doesn't feel as satisfying as PLA in the same application. Come to think of it, once you get a dirty fingerprint on WSF - almost without question when installing one of these clusters - good luck ever getting it clean too. PLA? Wipe and continue.

But more so than anything else, it's $5 cheaper per unit in PLA.

-Kurt

Machine supplier lists a higher temperature, as in like that number but Celsius. SW's number always looks odd, it would mean no dyeing with boiling water. As for finger prints, apply some coats of filler primer, it will yellow otherwise, like other "white" plastic parts in cars.

The one that could deform is the FUD part, with 56C for basic distortion test. And this time the machine supplier has same value in specs. Bad news.

Hmm. Going to run a few tests on the FUD part. Thanks for the heads up.

-Kurt