What the actual hell, Shapeways?

My hands are shaking I am so angry right now. A while ago I placed an order (914237) which contained several of my Zelda songrings - you know, those rings that you've printed successfully more than two thousand times? Except these ones were rejected.

That was bad enough, but when I contacted support I received the usual platitude of 'let us investigate this problem'. Instead of a swift and timely response, I had to wait for you to conclude your 'investigation', at which point I was finally told I could reorder. At that point it had taken long enough that I figured it would be more efficient to simply include them in my next order, so I waited a bit longer and placed the order over the weekend. (925203)

Well, guess f--king what? Two of them were just rejected. AGAIN. Which means you'll make ME go through the process of reordering them, with the chance that they'll be rejected AGAIN.

This level of service can only be described as horrible. It's completely unacceptable to treat your designers this way. I continue to be astonished at your absolute REFUSAL to do anything about the single most significant problem with your entire service.

I'm posting this here in addition to sending an email to service. Hopefully that's enough to, at the very least, have my problem actually solved in a timely manner, rather than being delayed for a few days before you f--k it up again.

My apologies for the language and rudeness above. I don't think I can adequately describe just how angry I am right now. This isn't rocket science, it's the most basic level of customer service.

PS: I didn't make it clear, but the two that were rejected TWICE weren't Zelda songrings, they were different rings which 'only' have a few dozen successful prints under their belt. Because that makes it so much better. After ten flawless prints, as far as I'm concerned you've lost the right to say there's a problem with them.

I wonder who does the printability checks on items such as "steel" that are produced elsewhere - shapeways, the production partner, or both ?

First off, Christel is currently working on that email you sent in. She will be your liason to help sort this issue on this order. She is more than capable and is definitely willing to help.

I know this frustration. There is not a designer among us (yes, we use Shapeways, too) that has not gone through some variation of this issue. On the surface, it seems like a really easy solve. Just know what can be printed. However, once you start to open the machine and look at it, the problem gets more complicated. That is why my team is here: to help you through the obstacles. After all, in a company that is innovating on every aspect of the process, there are bound to be some obstacles, bumps, and bruises. However, you are never alone and without support. We (Christel this time) are here to help.

To give you a bit of insight into steel, we do use a production partner. They coordinate with us on the checking of the model. When it is an exact model (same Model ID) that has printed before, then we can see that history and treat it appropriately. That makes sense and is pretty straight forward. However, that is not the case with variants.

This is where the problem gets much more complicated. When a model is a slight variant on another model that has printed before. How does your system recognize that? How many resources does such a system require? What is too much change before it needs to be manually reviewed? Small changes can absolutely change the risk analysis of a model and cause it to be much more complicated, while some larger changes will hardly matter. It is unique to the geometry. Therefore, what level or aspect can you change before the risk in the model is too much? These are questions in the industry that no one has yet been able to solve. We are pursuing answers. One step towards those answers is 3D Tools; a feature we launched recently that helps you analyze your models before sending them through. The process is improving.

When you get that cancellation email, it can be hard to forget how far we have come as a company and a community. You've been a solid part of that. We have all felt that frustration (granted, to different degrees). Christel is here to help you on this case. We will be here to help on future bumps. And, being part of the revolution in manufacturing means that there will be bumps (that should get smaller with time). Hang in there. Keep doing the awesome designing that you do. We will keep pushing the industry forward and will find ways to smooth out the road ahead.

I was told to reorder them (again!) and send an email with the order number when I did, and that service would ensure they went through. So that's exactly what I did.

Go ahead, guess what happened next.

.....

Yup! REJECTED AGAIN!

So now Shapeways has not only SEVERELY inconvenienced both me AND the customer waiting for these, but has also LIED to me in addition to all this.

Shall I reorder them a FOURTH time?

EDIT: And just in case there's any confusion, there were four other models in that order that were rejected - I'm fine with those ones being rejected, they were first-time test prints, rejections happen for them.

I'm getting really sick of this type of bullshit myself. Besides the price of the prints going up when they are already ridiculously priced.

Shapesways prints 1 unit from an order, my customer ordered three of the same print files but two were rejected. Another customer ordered the same print file and it gets printed, no hassles. Really, and I'm supposed to alter my print files again, sorry Shapeways this one isn't on me because you blew the whistle on yourself printing the products you did from the same files you rejected.

Consistency makes for good business which I don't see coming from Shapeways. Competitor had no issues with any of the files I have listed here on Shapeways, time to step up to the plate Shapeways or I'm not playing your pawn any longer.

Easier to reject the print and not have to do the actual work? Same materials, same print file, only difference is color and I'm supposed to help Shapeways? WTF?

Color could be a problem IF both parts are in strong&flexible AND one is dyed while the other is not - at least they say that models receive a more rigorous polishing if they are to be dyed. Can you be more specific about the rejected model(s) ?

Both are dyed color prints, pinks were rejected and black I just found is still going through manual checks.
These have been printed for both the man that does my CAD and another customer. Like I've said (competitor) has no issues with these print files at all.

Moderator note: Please do not specifically name the competitors.

I see - same argument still applies though, as the shapeways "black" is dyed without prior polishing. Probably the competitor uses a better dyeing method and/or a less dangerous polishing apparatus (or simply still takes their time to handle models more diligently...)
Perhaps somebody from shapeways would care to comment ?

Yeah, maybe someone from Shapeways should explain. Maybe and speculating isn't cutting it.

Hey Podunk_Steam,

I see you've already reached out to service@ which is great, they'll help you out specifically.

To speak more generally about the issue, different colors are considered different materials in the system so its possible that if a few models were ordered around the same time, a few could have slipped by (since they come up as distinct material IDs) and one got caught. Sorry that happened, I know it can be frustrating.

Beyond frustrating when there's really no inspiration in a print company that is wrecking a business with unique products too expensive for most of my customer base which is no fault of my own. Now already expensive products are going up in price while Shapeways doesn't adjust my shops write up only Shapeways base price. Investor interests falling so Shapeways has to show a larger profit margin?
Than to upload files, have them pass, have the files be rejected when they go to print, upload new files which pass all checks only to be rejected after the same file has printed? I mean WTF really?
Competitor has no issues with any one of the files list in our shop,
Competitor manages to check files well enough when up loaded it doesn't adversely affect transactions with customers as I have experience too many times already with Shapeways.
My honest opinion is Shapeways is cutting their throat, not working with customers on bulk/wholesale orders, lame print checks when files are uploaded, stalling transactions with customers, prices that are too high, a web site most of my customers are having troubles navigating cause extensive correspondence with customers that can't find what they are looking for and the list goes on....

You know when you are SO frustrated by something, SO angry, that you transcend it and can't even manage to find the energy to be angry anymore? That's more or less where I'm at.

Just placed a $600+ order (983592), and had three models rejected out of it. One of them was a one-time plastic model that I forgot to tick 'Print It Anyway' on, so I'm fine with that. The other two? Proven models that have printed successfully many times. Granted, not those EXACT models - they were rings that had printed in other sizes many times.

I've done this dance before and I know what's coming. I already sent an email to service. Now watch as I predict with uncanny accuracy exactly what the series of events will be:

Service will apologize and offer the same explanation I've heard dozens of times as to why they just can't offer consistent service, and why I'm the unreasonable one for asking for it. Nevertheless they will re-enable my models and instruct me to order again, because why just inconvenience me once? Better make me re-do the entire order process while I'm at it.

If I am INCREDIBLY lucky, the second order will go through. Far more likely however, will be that my second and possibly third and even fourth attempts to order will ALSO be rejected despite service's assurances that they will try to make sure the prints go through. I will become increasingly irate and eventually Shapeways will remind me that they work with a production partner and thus they can't TELL them to print the models. I will be left wondering just why the hell Shapeways even exists if I'm really dealing with this production partner, and I will ask to speak directly to this partner to discuss my models. That request will be either evaded or ignored.

Eventually, after a LOT of inconvenience and pain in the ass on my end, my models, that SHOULD have printed successfully the first time, will finally end up printed. Maybe if I raise enough of a stink Shapeways will offer me some store credit for my trouble.

For the record, these are the models that were rejected:

https://www.shapeways.com/product/BPTUTZCJB/wisdom-nosize
https://www.shapeways.com/product/9RVAXLS3H/ring-forever-siz e-12

And also for the record, here are the order numbers of orders that have printed these same rings, just with a slight size difference:

956323
942215
933180
931855
925203
901207
893019
878880
860081

There are more, but I frankly don't have the time or the inclination to go through hundreds of orders and find every single example.

Uhg, sorry about this.

The one piece of information I'm missing is what material(s) did you order?

I'm sitting in a meeting with our physical product manager right now and we were just talking about these printed before rejections, so seeing this is reenforcing our discussion.

Thank you for the prompt reply.

Both rings were ordered in stainless steel - one in Polished Bronze Steel, the other in Polished Gold Steel.

I'm glad to hear it is being discussed.

STEEL. OK good. Well not good but I just want you to know it is VERY much on our radar.


Lets get service@ involved but this happening right now was serendipity in the sense of that we're talking about it. I can't promise that I have an immediate fix but I'm going to use it to keep pushing.

Peregrine,
I'm just, I don't know, beside myself reading your post. A buddy and I have started a small venture and have had the same issues, but when I read you had 2000 successful prints and now you're getting reject notices my jaw hit the floor.
The day after I ordered one of our items we got a rejection notice from a customers order of the same item, so I spend hours going through our CAD drawings trying to find the problem and find nothing wrong, it makes me want to bang head against the wall.
Your predictions of how this will pan out are the same as ours, excuses. You and we don't get to use excuses with our customers, we apologize and break our backs trying to make it right for our customers and hope that we don't loose them on this or future orders.

Andrew, I'll be re-ordering those models within a day or two. Just a heads up, well in advance - sometimes when I re-order after an issue like this, the models are rejected again before anyone can communicate anything to the production partner.

I've actually just ordered now - Order #997572. Hoping it will go through fine.

Great, everything in 997572 is now in production!