Why Shapeway needs scale function

Hi again,

Please see this model https://www.shapeways.com/product/G9LTP998H/pa-ball-d12se86u 1v1a10f-wax or https://www.shapeways.com/product/WNGCA9YNH/pa-ball-v2-d12se 84bu1v1a10f-wax

On Competitor I am able to offer single model as several items in different materials. These "Balls" could be offer as pendants (for earrings) or as Christmas art toys in color translucent plastics or bigger pendant in steel. This model https://www.shapeways.com/product/HNR57FGDB/paffvase-v1pe33u 2v2s1h42 was downscaled from plastic vase model from https://www.competitive service.com/en/print/paffvase_v1pe33u2v2s1h185_p lastic/sRqMDqSX and printed in metal. At present Shapeways restrict scale models for buyers. Why? Is it problem to make printability check before ordering scaled item? Rejected order is ABSOLUTELY normally if scaled model become unprintable in selected material. I am sure, Shapeways will not withdraw money from buyer before manual check ordered model like i.competitive service doing it.

If it very difficult to make printability check again during buying process of scaled models, maybe, would you like to create possibility to order only UPscaled model in same material? Similar models no need printability checks but it designer would be offer rings/bracelet in needed (only bigger) sizes. As example, these bracelets has inner diameter 64mm and I cannot offer it for sale in 65-66-67...70...75mm of size. These items costs $10-15 in average and if scaled to 70 mm versions will costs on several $ more. It's cool but impossible at present time. So people with other hands cannot able to buy these items because Shapeways not want it. Why?

Also I have the my own incredible regenerative remap function which able convert rings/bracelets to needed sizes with saving wall thickness. I am ready to offer this function to Shapeways for implementation. This ring/bracelet remapper will able to upscale rings for low costs and downscale ones with safe printability. Hovewer, check-in-buying will needs for precision analyses remapped items.

All about scailng was writed on your forum many times also, as example here https://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=769 34&&srch=scale+model+shop#msg_76934

What is better for designer and Shapeways - compel designers to garbage their shops by scaled versions of single ring (10 sizes as minimum) or let use scaling? What is better for buyer - write letters to designer for creating scaled version of ring with 18mm size to 19 mm for 10-50$ or just print it as scaled from 18mm for +5$?

Thank you.

PS. I'm sorry for my not quite good English.

UPscaling is a good idea that makes (some) sense.. DOWNscaling is unlikely to happen.

Even with UP scalng, you run into a problem that as you increase the size of an object, you also make the walls thicker. Sometimes, the thicker walls add extra expense that is not necessary.
No automated software is going to be able to determine whether you intended for the walls to get thicker or if you wanted them to stay at the minimum thickness. Software can't make that adjustment for you.

Please see this listing, it based on prices of i.competitive service for simply scaled model https://www.etsy.com/listing/217412830/generative-windowed-x -like-ring-fr331. Then select ring size please. You can see that price for size from 16 (original) to 18mm has overpriced on +$6 (39...45). If you ask designer for creating 18mm-version specially (optimized for) you, then designer would like ask you about $20-50 for this job. What you prefer - +$6 and bit more weight or custom job via designer?

It would be best solution to create special ring/braceket mean, where designer will able to upload several versions (as example - for 16, 19, 22mm). Then needes other sizes would be makes by Shapeways via scaling from nearest smaller size to desired size with depend of finishes (polished/raw). It is possible by my special generative remap solution also (compatible with ring-based geometry only) - you will get lowest costs and safest printability.

I have ready to make concept of sales 3Dprinted rings/bracelets already. Are you in?

For it needs:

1. Add special parameter for all ring-based items - "Inner Diameter". Then you will able to compute needed "K" for correct upscaling to needed ring/bracelet size.
2. Add automatic lists of ring sizes to shop (include fully custom - in mm, inch).
3. Means for compute prices for upscaled models.
4. Means for real scaling models before it will be moved to manufacturing.

Hope see it soon. Then I will upload my huge collection of rings and bracelets on Shapeways.

PS. I'm sorry for my not quite good English.

You could also consider the option of scaling in only one or two dimensions instead of all three. It would provide some additional flexibility in terms of keeping costs lower or not allowing variation in directions that have a small span of validity for detail dimensional changes. I could see such an option being particularly useful for certain flat or cylindrical models.

Another useful option might be for different scaling factors in each of the three dimensions.

It would be absolutely cool, but not sure that it will implemented... Easy scale tool is absent already during very long time...

I wanted to add to this, I do some work with model railroad parts where we will often take the drawings of the original part make it in 3D on my computer. When I save the model I design the part to 100% full scale, but then I will apply the scaling factor of the scale that my friend is looking to produce his parts in. I let the computer scale the part, automatically and then I save a second version of the part at scale, then save that as a STL file for 3D printing.

Lately I have been thinking that it would be nice to make some of these parts available to the public in my own little store. The key issue is what scale to make them in. Whether the end user is working in 1.5"=1foot (1/8th scale ride on size train) or say 1/87th scale (HO) they both will want the part to look just like it looked on the prototype. I would really like to make a lot of this work available to the public, the problem is I doubt there will be much demand for any particular scale to make it worth offering.

On the other hand if 10people order one in 1/8th scale, another 2 in 1/4scale, and 30 in O-scale, etc.... then it may really be worth doing. On my end the computer does a wonderful job of scaling down parts I wonder if you guys could build that option into your software? In fact seeing how prominently model trains appear on your website, I would think you may want to offer a pull down selector for any of the popular scales people work in.

The cool thing here is whether or not the guy wants a part for a big toy locomotive model that burns coal and pulls 100people, or on his little N-scale locomotive, both people will want it to look identical.

There is a big problem with that concept, and thst is the minimum wire/wall thickness. I work in Zscale, and I have to inflate railings and gdab irons to 6 inch diameter to make them printable. They would need to be smaller as the model size grows. Comversely, if i design a wall at 3" thick, then by the time you get it to HO scale, the model is 8x more expensive than it needs to be if you were to redesign the walls for minimum thickness . There are a LOT of situations where simple mathematical scaling will not be sufficient.

Hello,

For jewelry scaling would work fine. I mean ring sizes do not vary that much.
With scale modeling a totally agree with Stonysmith. You can upscale scale models. But you can hardly downscale models. Features, minimum wall thicknesses etc. will not allow this.
Besides, if you take a better look at scale models, you will see that scale models are never 100% exact true to design. Even if physics would allow thinner wall thicknesses and smaller features the observer would not appreciate an exact scaled down replica of the original.
Small details need to be exeggarated. Just because otherwise the model would look to clear/empty.

One must also consider that 3D prints often needs to be painted. Extremely small details will be overlooked by the painter, or just too small.

In the RAILNSCALE shop you will find mainly 1/160th scale models. Derivatives are only upscaled up to 1/120th scale. To my opinion any larger scale would require a total redesign of the model.
Larger scaled models are always unique designs. Smaller than 1/160th scale would also mean a total redesign.

So Shapeways please do not go too far with all automatic up- and downscaling features. Too often customers become bad experiences at Shapeways, because they thought a model would look nice or is simply not paintable due to the hilariously small details.
It is not in our interest to offer products that do not meet the customers expectations. That would harm the reputation of 3D printing services.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE
www.railnscale.com

There are some more possibilities if scale tool will available for buyers. As example, this ball https://shpws.me/F05L could be printed in silver as pendant for earrings and as Christmas tree toys in scale 3:1, 4:1. I just created some group multy-material renders. At present time I need create scaled copy for offering it as plastic toys.

So sometimes one model in different scales and materials can be a different goods. I suggest compromise solution for creating scaled versions now. Here I wrote about parasitic clones from single model in my shop https://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=27720 &start=0&

Similar clones was produced by Shop Inventory bugs. It would be great solution for making clones of single model by Shop Inventory via new button "make clone". It button would be create clone of model with all (changeable) descriptions, categories and tags with needed size automatically. Then you will able to change descriptions, categories, tags and materials for sale.

But it is not best solution because it process needs in creating new files and it is not good for SW servers. Scaling on the fly (with printability test on the fly also) is best solution by my opinion.

But solution for rings, bracelets and probably vases I mentioned earlier.

Those of you talking about Nscale vs. Z scale are really working with what I would consider to be little "baby" trains in comparison to the stuff I would like to see the feature used on. Basically I would like to be able to have a part that would work on both of these locomotives;
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<a href="http://trevorheath.com/livesteaming/Dave_Giles_K36.jpg " target="_blank">

I am not too sure with most of these files that going from say 1.5"/ft scale up to 2.5" scale would be much of an issue.

Just saw the photos didn't appear to post here but here they are
http://trevorheath.com/livesteaming/Dave_Giles_K36.jpg
http://branchlineproducts.com/assets/images/header.jpg

You will lose a lot of money and clients for this reason.

PS. What about that idea? SW would allow designer make list of applicable scales (for rings, as example) and create multy-size Shop listings based on scaled clones of model. In this case a buyer will able select needed scale from it predefined list of scales and choose applicable material for selected scale.

So... buyers will not able to scale as they want but designer would be able to create multi-size listings by easy way.

What do you think?