Home » Community » Shapeways Shops » **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products**
Search Search  
Show: Today's Messages    Show Polls    Message Navigator
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95152 is a reply to message #95143 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 14:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
Messages: 2248
Registered: August 2008
Go to my shop
Shapie Expert
moderator
Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sat, 02 August 2014 06:28


3) the first to try really calls for a solution for multiple ring sizes before it goes live. It's not ok that a product printed in various materials successfully but offered in 5-8 sizes will display first to try. Therefore it should be possible to somehow group/link products that are the same but different sizes in the print success rate calculation.


A couple of small disclaimers:
1) I do think grouping is a good idea, but "it's complicated"
2) I am by no means privy to the internal priority list for enhancements.. I only work to extend the list (to infinity), and I do not directly participate in priority setting.
3) I wish to offend no one, just adding my own voice.

From my own perspective, I don't see how it would be possible to add Size Groups quickly, nor economically.
For one, the current database does not seem to be setup in such a way as to support linked models. Every model stands (or falls) based upon it's own merits. Second, Shapeways would need some way to ensure that various sizes are actually "identical shape". Third, the FirstToTry feature, while imperfect, can produce positive results (setting customer expectation) quickly, possibly increase sales (or reduce the number of returns) and thereby funding the Grouping option we all desire.

Let's say I make a 2mm thick ring, and present it in various sizes from 10 to 15mm in diameter. That is six different shapes... but they are not Identical. If the geometries were "the same", then the ring would be 2mm thick at 10mm, and 3mm thick at 15mm in diameter. Or, depending upon how my design process works, the ring might have started out at 2mm x 15mm and shrunk to only 1.33mm thick at 10mm. If I chose to print it in a material that requires 2mm walls, then the small ring at 1.33mm would fail and should not have been declared as printable just because the large ring worked.
index.php?t=getfile&id=66911&private=0

In effect, I would be asking Shapeways to just "trust me" that the versions would all be printable, and their current systems require that printability is demonstrated first. Since Shapeways is not aware of what my design process is, they must inspect each item individually. This inspection (perhaps) could be done as a paid-for service, but I don't think it's reasonable to ask them to just assume that two models I arbitrarily link together are both automatically printable.

===
Now, on the other hand, something I think Shapeways could do (with less work) is to give the buyer the option to rescale a model upwards at the point of purchase (down-scaling won't work). If 'all' rings were designed at say size 5, then they could present the buyer with a dropdown of sizes 6,7,8,9,10 and use standard math ratios to increase the size. If they could do the resizing on their end, then they could know that the shape is identical, and larger items should "guarantee" to print if the smaller one did. Unfortunately, such a software fix would involve the walls on hollow items getting unnecessarily thicker as the item is upscaled. The buyer would incur extra expense over having each size designed individually to optimize the print cost. It's not a perfect solution, but it has it's merits.

  • Attachment: Rings.jpg
    (Size: 46.49KB, Downloaded 416 time(s))


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95155 is a reply to message #95152 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 17:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
Messages: 933
Registered: January 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
Rescale UP will be a good choice. Scale down it is not practical and can land to print fails all the way.

Other services has a rescale option.


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95156 is a reply to message #95155 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 18:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
Yeah rescale would be nice.

So the designer could choose the smallest needed or possible size and afterwards increasing the size should not affect the print ability.
(Although there are a lot of rules concerning thin walls but I think scaling won't affect them)

Woody64


More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95158 is a reply to message #95156 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 18:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar wgseligman  is currently offline wgseligman
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2013
Go to my shop
Member
Scaling is not a universal solution for customized jewelry. For example, for the rings in my shop, I do not simply rescale the rings for the customer's ring size. I adjust the design of the band to appropriately support the face of the ring. The band thickness and the size of the front face remain constant.

For my part, my plan is to wait until Shapeways has fully rolled out the changes to the shops so I know what the results will look like. Then I'll add a sentence like this to my shop description: "You will always see 'First to Try' when you order a Kickin' Wiccan ring, because each ring is custom-designed for you. You are always the first."
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95164 is a reply to message #95143 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 23:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
Messages: 1095
Registered: May 2009
Go to my shop
Shapie Expert
Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sat, 02 August 2014 06:28

2) with all the new renders there are many photos/renders attached to each product... Therefore it is more important than ever to be able to control the display order of photos/renders. As it is now you would have to delete all photos and re-upload which is NOT good enough.

Renders would not be an issue if those images appeared in the normal place when the user hovers/clicks the material selection just like the text changes, or as already proposed, as a popup. In the case of reusing the zone, clicking any of the thumbs would make the render go away and show the selected image.

This would communicate better what they are by separating them from the other images, as well as keep the thumb list shorter and cleaner. With the nice side effect that it would require less effort for ordering.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95320 is a reply to message #94076 ] Tue, 05 August 2014 04:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MichaelAtOz  is currently offline MichaelAtOz
Messages: 37
Registered: April 2010
Go to all my models
Member
I skimmed some of this so sorry if it was covered, but...

I understand the material family bit of First To Try, and that WSF get flagged 100% for a coloured SF successful print.

But why doesn't polished WSF also get 100% flag with a successful coloured print?

It is the same, just without ink.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95538 is a reply to message #94076 ] Thu, 07 August 2014 15:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
Messages: 911
Registered: September 2008
Go to all my models
Senior Member
I work here
Hey guys,

Update as per the Announcement Thread: BETA PRODUCTS ARE LIVE TO SHOPPERS NOW!

Shoppers can see a selection of Beta Products in this Gallery - so when you put your product in beta, it will show up in this gallery for shoppers to browse.

What does this mean for you?

Here are a few things you can do now:

1. Create Your New Material Renders
For all of the materials that you are offering for sale, you can now create realistic renders of each material. You can pose & generate renders for all of your products, regardless of if they have been printed before. We've improved them based on a lot of your feedback, so check it out and pose your models!
Learn more There's ongoing renders discussion here, so feel free to join there for details, and to see what we've improved.

2. Tag Materials in Your Photos
If you have photos for each material you are offering for sale, you can tag them so they show up when shoppers select a material on your product page.
Learn More

3. Explore First to Try & Beta
You can learn more about how you can use these new tools to bring your products to market using 3D printing.

We also shared these features with you a few weeks ago and got some great feedback, some of which is already implemented in this latest iteration. So THANK YOU for your feedback. :-)

But it's not too late to join the discussion! We're in Beta too and invite you to join Shapeways Insiders - help us shape the future! Sign up for future usability testing here

-Natalia

[Updated on: Thu, 07 August 2014 15:51 UTC]


Shapeways Community Manager
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95549 is a reply to message #95538 ] Thu, 07 August 2014 16:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar wgseligman  is currently offline wgseligman
Messages: 41
Registered: July 2013
Go to my shop
Member
Well, now I see how it looks. I appreciate the ability to turn off the extra renders (which I've done). I've updated the description at my site so (maybe) the customers will understand why my co-created items will always have the "First to Try" icon.

My initial feedback is: If I remember correctly, Shapeways has acknowledged earlier in this thread that they don't have a good scheme for organizing variations on models or co-created items. Until this issue is resolved (if it ever can be), can designers have the option to turn off "First to Try" for co-created items?
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95553 is a reply to message #95549 ] Thu, 07 August 2014 16:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar seriaforma  is currently offline seriaforma
Messages: 255
Registered: July 2011
Go to my shop
Senior Member
Thank you for keeping photos first.

How do we report anomalies?
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95554 is a reply to message #95553 ] Thu, 07 August 2014 17:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SavIsSavvy  is currently offline SavIsSavvy
Messages: 341
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
I work here
Quote:

How do we report anomalies?


You can report them here and we'll pass them on :)

Variations are something that we're looking into with a very keen eye- while it's frustrating to make a minor change and have a product return to FTT stage, it's also so we can guarantee we can print it. While it's challenging to distinguish between a simple change and a complete iterative overhaul at this time, we hope to be able to in the future.

Regarding image ordering and moving them around- keep this feedback coming! It's a feature we've been hoping to integrate and your words add fuel to the engine that can make it happen.


Savannah, your Shop Owner Coach/Global Community Manager
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95689 is a reply to message #95549 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 18:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
Messages: 131
Registered: April 2014
Go to my shop
Senior Member
wgseligman wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 16:16

Well, now I see how it looks. I appreciate the ability to turn off the extra renders (which I've done). I've updated the description at my site so (maybe) the customers will understand why my co-created items will always have the "First to Try" icon.

My initial feedback is: If I remember correctly, Shapeways has acknowledged earlier in this thread that they don't have a good scheme for organizing variations on models or co-created items. Until this issue is resolved (if it ever can be), can designers have the option to turn off "First to Try" for co-created items?


@wgseligman: How do you turn the horrible renders off??? Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95693 is a reply to message #94076 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 18:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
Messages: 131
Registered: April 2014
Go to my shop
Senior Member
Hi Shapeways Team,

BIG PROBLEM !!!! The horrible renders shows up even though I have tagged REAL photos of the materials. Why??? And worse... the horrible renders show up at default image so when you visit my shop and see the e.g. the 'IBA1M US10 MOVE FWD' you will see the stupid render as the first image representing the product. This is NOT OK!! Obviously I don't want a render to represent my product when I have real photos. And... the renders don't look anything like real. When you launch something new like the renders for the materials you should make sure to have worked out a way to arrange photos BEFORE this launch. ALL photos are now mixed up in a COMPLETELY random order and the shop owners are unable to re-arrange them. WHY? It's an old issue.

Please see attached screen dumps 1) my real photo is tagged as default image but 2) the render appears as the default photo in the shop which has never been the case since I tagged real photos when launching the product.

PLEASE CORRECT THIS ASAP!!! At least allow us to disable the renders until you have fixed the issue with arranging the order of photos.

Mike

index.php?t=getfile&id=67537&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=67536&private=0

[Updated on: Fri, 08 August 2014 18:27 UTC]


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95696 is a reply to message #95693 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 18:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
Messages: 1362
Registered: September 2011
Go to my shop
Shapie Expert
You can disable the Renders in your Shop Settings (i.e. globally, not on a Product level).

Sell --> Shop Settings

The bug about default image not appearing in the shop should have already been fixed, before all else imo, and setting the photo order should be a top priority.

However ....
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95699 is a reply to message #95696 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 18:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
Messages: 131
Registered: April 2014
Go to my shop
Senior Member
@AmLachDesigns,

Thanks :-) have now turned off the renders that I believe won't serve much good. One thing is that they overrule the photos regarding order of appearance another thing is that the look completely wrong... E.g. the stainless steel renders for my products looks like the real Polished Bronze Steel. Good thing they can be turned off :-) However the organizing of order of appearance for photos/images should still be top priority as everything keeps moving around in my shop.

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95702 is a reply to message #95699 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 19:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SavIsSavvy  is currently offline SavIsSavvy
Messages: 341
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
I work here
Hi All,

Happy you've been able to sort out your issues. I know a change like this can be challenging to get used to, and its inspiring to see you all help each other.

I've been advocating for the ability to sort/order photos for awhile here, I genuinely hope it can happen soon. Thanks for the feedback as always!

Best,
Sav


Savannah, your Shop Owner Coach/Global Community Manager
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95715 is a reply to message #95696 ] Fri, 08 August 2014 22:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MichaelAtOz  is currently offline MichaelAtOz
Messages: 37
Registered: April 2010
Go to all my models
Member
AmLachDesigns wrote on Fri, 08 August 2014 18:39

You can disable the Renders in your Shop Settings (i.e. globally, not on a Product level).

Sell --> Shop Settings




I have not setup a shop yet, just selling discrete product(s), why not have that option against an account too?
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95837 is a reply to message #95715 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 07:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
I've already mentioned it, but I think that the "upload of a new version" will make us designers a lot of troubles.

If the item is already in the product stage we are loosing this status completely. But in the most cases we only will have small adaptations of the mesh.

Any chance to have a work flow like that:

Product (new upload, checks ok, volume change < +/- 3%) => Product
Product (new upload, checks nok or volume change > +/- 3%) => First To Try

Many of the designers take an invest to test their items. Often small changes are necessary. Sometimes small changes based on user feedback are necessary. With the actual workflow we loose this invest ...


More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95838 is a reply to message #95837 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 07:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
Messages: 933
Registered: January 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
That it is the risk of designing. Shapeways has no responsibility to enable "finite product" on a modified product. It is valid in any place you go to do it , you must print it again even for the smallest modification. Any modification to a product means that product it is a new version / revision.

I don`t like it either but I have learned that it is part of the learning process , and in line to the legal system.

In music you change 2 -3 musical notes you end with a new melody line. It my sound the same but there it is a noticeable difference.


woody64 wrote on Mon, 11 August 2014 07:18

I've already mentioned it, but I think that the "upload of a new version" will make us designers a lot of troubles.

If the item is already in the product stage we are loosing this status completely. But in the most cases we only will have small adaptations of the mesh.

Any chance to have a work flow like that:

Product (new upload, checks ok, volume change < +/- 3%) => Product
Product (new upload, checks nok or volume change > +/- 3%) => First To Try

Many of the designers take an invest to test their items. Often small changes are necessary. Sometimes small changes based on user feedback are necessary. With the actual workflow we loose this invest ...


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95842 is a reply to message #95837 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 07:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
Messages: 2249
Registered: June 2012
Go to all my models
Shapie Expert
woody64 wrote on Mon, 11 August 2014 07:18


If the item is already in the product stage we are loosing this status completely. But in the most cases we only will have small adaptations of the mesh.


This revolves around the definition of "small" - for your miniature helmets, a three percent change in volume might work, but that same percentage would probably also cover adding a fancy feather to a landsknecht beret (or similarly thin and delicate objects, railings, antennas etc. in other kinds of models)
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95844 is a reply to message #95838 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 08:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
No sorry, can't follow your statements.

In each release management you differ between minor and major changes.

If you change some single notes (i.e. a bass line of an arrangement) you still have the same piece. A platin sold music piece you won't never ban back to a "first to try" (to stay in SW wording) piece only by changing some notes (mesh points) in the arrangement.

Still both SW and the designer want to sell items. So disatracting possible sellers from valuable items can't be in both interest

From different points of view there are the scenarios:
1) Buy an established product: get what you have seen on the pictures in the specified time frame (good for all stake holders)
2) Take a look on a "first to try" and decide to stay away (not good for SW and the designer)
3) Buy a first to try and all is ok (good for all stake holders)
4) Buy a first to try and have multiple print trials to have a successful print (that was also SW risk before the First To Try)
5) Buy a first to try, get a reject by the manual test, .... (also not new and changed by the new status)
6) Having a product, do an update and fall into more buyer's decisions as shown in 2)
....

So what has really changed now is 2)

Woody64



More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95845 is a reply to message #95842 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 08:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
mkroeker wrote on Mon, 11 August 2014 07:55


This revolves around the definition of "small" - for your miniature helmets, a three percent change in volume might work, but that same percentage would probably also cover adding a fancy feather to a landsknecht beret (or similarly thin and delicate objects, railings, antennas etc. in other kinds of models)


Yes you are right. And it's maybe not the best definition (maybe bounding box is better).

But the more interesting question is, why should the possible seller be disatracted by a "First to try".

Is "First to try" more risky from failing point of view or is having less buyers more risky?
The risk with a small change is that is passes the manual test and results in a print failure.

Woody64
Additionally I own a shop at shapeways from the very beginning. The reasons for a new upload were numerous (i.e. as simple as to have a better render).


More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95846 is a reply to message #95845 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 08:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
Messages: 2249
Registered: June 2012
Go to all my models
Shapie Expert
First of all I am strongly against "first to try", though I should make it clear once again that technically I should have no say in this matter as I do not have a shop.Now your suggestion boils down to "trust me, I know what I am doing" while shapeways seems to have come to the (temporary) conclusion that too much trust in the abilities and judgement of the designers has put them in an awkward position.
(I posit that it is actually "too much trust in their technology", hence my suggestion to show a disclaimer-like explanation of what can go wrong with print-on-demand and what state of finish to expect even in the best case. In my opinion that would also cover all the cases of imperfect polish of the metals, and variations in both bronze distribution and wear or corrosion resistance of the "stainless")
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95848 is a reply to message #95846 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 09:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
No my suggestion is not "trust me, I know"

It's:
- a design which was already printed successfully
- which has undergone an update
- and was checked by the automatic process against principle print ability and wall thickness
-- to restrict to harsh changes there may an additional measure make sense like bounding box, volume, number of points ... (not really analyzed yet)
- and still a manual check will be done by SW

=> so what is the risk of failing now (for sure there is one but is it that greater then having less buyers. Nevertheless SW will end in 99% "First To try" items based on the number of pieces in the shop. And there must be a difference between pieces which were sold a lot and pieces which were never printed or sold at all)

As you also stated you don't like "First to try" and a lot of designers have stated that so far the purpose is to at least save some already achieved results.

Woody64


[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2014 09:10 UTC]


More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95852 is a reply to message #95848 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 11:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
Messages: 457
Registered: December 2010
Go to my shop
Senior Member
How about we just have an "Recently Updated" status for those models which have printed before OK but now a new version has been uploaded?

Tom
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95857 is a reply to message #95852 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 13:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SavIsSavvy  is currently offline SavIsSavvy
Messages: 341
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
I work here
Quote:

there must be a difference between pieces which were sold a lot and pieces which were never printed or sold at all


This is a very good point. Would you, hypothetically, feel better if there was a visual indicator that "prior versions of this model printed successfully" that went alongside "First to Try"? I think there is a way we could perhaps all meet in the middle here.

To everyone's point that First to Try will discourage potential shoppers: 1) We genuinely hope not- we are tracking stats and behaviors of shoppers encountering these messages very closely. We have no problem modifying the program if we see negative impacts on the Shop Owners. 2) There is no more confusing thing for a shopper than a model rejection. Period. 3) The goal behind FTT is to eliminate the possibility of a shopper facing rejection. The only way to do this is to guarantee that we can print the model, a guarantee we can only 100% explicitly confirm if we have printed it before. 4) Also, using the example of the feather in the mini-figure's hat, lets say you made that change and we didn't indicate FTT. If in shipping that model the feather breaks off, the customer will be disappointed (and not return to Shapeways, likely ever), we will have to refund their total order value and you won't make any markup. This is a lose, lose, lose. At least if their expectations are managed, they can understand that as early adopters, they're apart of the design process and that can be hard sometimes.

I can't say for sure how this will be resolved, but I can assure you I've passed on this feedback and am here to listen, help & support.

Thanks, all


Savannah, your Shop Owner Coach/Global Community Manager
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95858 is a reply to message #95857 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 13:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SavIsSavvy  is currently offline SavIsSavvy
Messages: 341
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
I work here
Quote:

I have not setup a shop yet, just selling discrete product(s), why not have that option against an account too?


@MichaelAtOz you should set up a shop, it's a quick process and will give you access to all the tools :)


Savannah, your Shop Owner Coach/Global Community Manager
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95859 is a reply to message #95857 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 13:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
Messages: 579
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
SavIsSavvy wrote on Mon, 11 August 2014 13:39

....3) The goal behind FTT is to eliminate the possibility of a shopper facing rejection. The only way to do this is to guarantee that we can print the model, a guarantee we can only 100% explicitly confirm if we have printed it before....


Then this means that a previously flagged model as "product" go ever to be printed, even if the printing team break it a thousand times to print one complete model. Isn't it?

And in this case, after this disaster, does the model loose the "product" flag?
Re: **UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #95862 is a reply to message #95857 ] Mon, 11 August 2014 14:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 486
Registered: November 2008
Go to my shop
Senior Member
SavIsSavvy wrote on Mon, 11 August 2014 13:39


This is a very good point. Would you, hypothetically, feel better if there was a visual indicator that "prior versions of this model printed successfully" that went alongside "First to Try"? I think there is a way we could perhaps all meet in the middle here.



Yes a lot.

First to try
First to try update

would also fit. Something that differs from items not printed at all.

Woody64

[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2014 14:57 UTC]


More then 8100 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95975 is a reply to message #94190 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 05:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JamesRowlands  is currently offline JamesRowlands
Messages: 2
Registered: March 2014
Go to my shop
Junior Member
Has anyone else seen a dramatic drop off in their business after the updates?

I was comfortably making a sale every couple of days, and it's now a full 2 weeks since I sold anything. I thought that I'd built myself a neat little shop that could even make for a primary income, and now I'm feeling like either I was naive, or the changes that Shapeways has made to our pages have really impacted it's potential.
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95983 is a reply to message #95975 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 06:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
Messages: 579
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
JamesRowlands wrote on Wed, 13 August 2014 05:34

Has anyone else seen a dramatic drop off in their business after the updates?
...


Not really. My rate of sales usually are one every two days too, but they go down two weeks before "the bomb" and this week has go up to normal again.

I thought this could be related to summer holydays.

I think (as I said before)that customers really don't understand the "First to Fail"-"Products" flags.

Some (almost all) of my models are in WSF, FUD and FD, and thus FD isn't ordered for any customer, in all my models I have both of flags. If I was a new customer, really I couldn't understand that.

Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95985 is a reply to message #95983 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 06:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
Messages: 849
Registered: June 2011
Go to all my models
Senior Member
I work here
Looking at my personal shop it's because of the summer.

Every year (since the past 4 of them already), August en September are low in sales.
October is usually the month I sell most!
Probably people buying their train stuff so they have something to build in the winter.


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95986 is a reply to message #95985 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 06:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JamesRowlands  is currently offline JamesRowlands
Messages: 2
Registered: March 2014
Go to my shop
Junior Member
Well my shop is quite new, so I guess my explanation is going to have to be that I was naive about the fluctuations in sales.
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95989 is a reply to message #95986 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 06:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
Messages: 579
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
JamesRowlands wrote on Wed, 13 August 2014 06:48

Well my shop is quite new, so I guess my explanation is going to have to be that I was naive about the fluctuations in sales.


Hi.

My advice is that with a new shop, you can try google analytics to know how many customers really take a look into your models, and what are your more visited models

http://www.google.com/analytics/

https://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/shops/setting-up-google- analytics-for-your-shapeways-shop

This could led you in a direction of work or another to improve your catalog.

Good luck!

Luis
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95990 is a reply to message #95983 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 07:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
Messages: 1362
Registered: September 2011
Go to my shop
Shapie Expert
Quote:

I think (as I said before)that customers really don't understand the "First to Fail"-"Products" flags.

I think only SW think that the ''Be a guinea pig"/"We don't know if this will print, you might be wasting your time" flag is a good idea. But then they introduced for their own reasons, not for ours.

I think @mkroeker is technically correct in that SW should really stress to potential purchasers that 3D printing can produce variable results, and it should be up to the designer to prove otherwise somehow. But this would not improve sales...

The only thing I can say to mitigate my concern over this annoying flag is that the area of the Model page where it is situated is so cluttered and confusing that I very much doubt whether any potential customer will figure out what it all means...
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95991 is a reply to message #95990 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 07:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
Messages: 579
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
AmLachDesigns wrote on Wed, 13 August 2014 07:10

...The only thing I can say to mitigate my concern over this annoying flag is that the area of the Model page where it is situated is so cluttered and confusing that I very much doubt whether any potential customer will figure out what it all means...


Agree...
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95993 is a reply to message #95991 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 07:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
Messages: 1362
Registered: September 2011
Go to my shop
Shapie Expert
What does Beta give us that we did not have before?

What happens when a Product goes from Beta to non-Beta (Gamma?)?

I would like some help in understanding this concept...
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #95997 is a reply to message #95993 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 07:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
Messages: 579
Registered: April 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
AmLachDesigns wrote on Wed, 13 August 2014 07:26

What does Beta give us that we did not have before?

What happens when a Product goes from Beta to non-Beta (Gamma?)?

I would like some help in understanding this concept...


I don't understand it neither. But don't affect me.

When Stony wake up in the Texan morning, may be he can put a light on this. He has a model in "beta".
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #96005 is a reply to message #95997 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 09:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
Messages: 933
Registered: January 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
What I did understood it is : Beta it is a way to make the product with feedback from clients. After that you can change it to finished product , beta stage means client that wants to print first time and a photo and give feedback and refine stuff...

But some Tequila can solve the confusion ... :)))


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #96006 is a reply to message #95993 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 09:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
Messages: 2249
Registered: June 2012
Go to all my models
Shapie Expert
(Not stony but hey they made me a Guru too - and do I love walking on high street now with the doves calling guru guru from the rooftops)
My understanding is that Beta is meant to provide an easy means to ask for customer feedback on unfinished and/or fragile designs (probably in exchange for lower markup) rather than having to write a lengthy explanation on the model page. Not sure if this would appeal to me as a generic customer unless I already know the designer or this model was created specifically for me - the pessimistic interpretation would seem to be that this is just another kind of "models to avoid".
Going from beta to non-beta would hopefully just entail that the designer unchecks a box on the model page whenever he sees fit, keeping the printability history of the last iteration.
Re: First try will kill many shops [message #96007 is a reply to message #96006 ] Wed, 13 August 2014 09:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
Messages: 933
Registered: January 2013
Go to my shop
Senior Member
Hey guru ... do you smoke some plants ?

I`d rather see instead of "guru" something like "expert support" or "expert" ..."trainer" ...

There are so many other words that does not imply a religion one.

On topic

Beta = iterations = cracking = other bump stuff ... you don`t want to deliver straight to not knowing client. lol

[Updated on: Wed, 13 August 2014 09:14 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design

Pages (4): [ «    1  2  3  4    »] 
   
Previous Topic:where are settings inputs for "shop details?
Next Topic:Holiday Shipping Times - everything you need to know to get your order by Christmas

Logo

Hello.

We're sorry to inform you that we no longer support this browser and can't confirm that everything will work as expected. For the best Shapeways experience, please use one of the following browsers:

Click anywhere outside this window to continue.