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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94372 is a reply to message #94298 ] Sat, 19 July 2014 16:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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@bdickason

Hi I have this one http://shpws.me/uDmR it gives me 100% production success rate on Polished Silver , Raw Silver , Raw Brass , Raw Bronze ?!

So how this family :

"For example, we have a 'Finished Cast Metals' family that includes the following materials:
18k Gold, Gold Plated Brass, 14k White Gold, 14K Gold, Polished Brass, Platinum, 14k Rose Gold, Polished Bronze, and Premium Silver"

apply ?!

o.O How Polished Bronze it is different so much from Polished silver ?!


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94380 is a reply to message #94221 ] Sat, 19 July 2014 18:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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railNscale wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 05:24

@kzasada:
-The big problem called rejections.
Probably the biggest frustration is the rejection procedure. Now it appears to me that SW likes to get clean hands here by adding 'Try To Print', a.k.a. 'Don't blame us' feature.
As you see, no designer asks for this and no designer sees benefits from this.
'First To Try' does not explain anything to potential customers. All above mentioned problems are not related to a first try. It has to do about bad communication. This means ADD PHOTOS of your products.
The rejection prtocess of SW has been discussed since ever, and will certainly not stop with this 'Try To Print' label.



Struggled a lot with rejected models and made me sometimes very frustrated.
But recently I've learned that it's more frustrating when a customer receives a misprinted item and the 3d printing provider denies any responsibility (it's printed as in the 3d file and if there are things which can't be printed then it's your fault).
So far SW cares that they can deliver what the customer sees on the 3d print preview.

Woody64

[Updated on: Sat, 19 July 2014 18:45 UTC]


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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94389 is a reply to message #94076 ] Sat, 19 July 2014 19:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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Hi Shapies, I was wondering whether upcoming material renders soon to be launched are the ones that starts to appear in my shop as small previews? At the time being they are very small and unable to enlarge so it's difficult to tell what the will end up look like. I just can't help notice that the ones that starts to appear don't look very photo realistic. It seems they are made without any use of reflection maps or any special light settings and/or hdri maps that is required to have precious metals look like precious metals. If they are really the ones I'd prefer to do my own renders. Therefore it would be really cool if you could post some real size 625x465 px renders of each material of any jewelry product so we shop owners can determine whether we would want to spend time preparing our own renders or if the renders soon to be provided by Shapeways are actually cool enough :-)

Cheers,

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94391 is a reply to message #94389 ] Sat, 19 July 2014 20:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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You have to follow the link "Material Render Pose"on the right side (I also didn't catch it ... )

*This feature is not yet visible to shoppers. Save changes to see a preview of what your page will look like here.


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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94409 is a reply to message #94292 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 04:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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HenrikRydberg wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 18:25

Another thing I want to make 100% clear: when you order your own products, you're the "first to try", and so the product will graduate (in all it's Guideline Family materials) if printability is there.. So if you're a shop owner who orders (and photographs) your products, shoppers won't see "first to try" options in your shop. But when the creativity strikes and you do experimental products or add new materials, First to try kicks in—and rightly so.


But as said somewhere, designers tend to order groups to optimize testing, and then offer other things as they make sense for the customer. Example: you design A, B, C & D, and other those in a sprue. Customers want multiple of each, so in reality you have a private A+B+C+D and four items, 10*A, 4*B, 7*C and 5*D (whatever makes natural group for each) for sale showing "first to try". The original example was about something like testing A+B+C+D and then selling A+B, A+C, A+D.
regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94412 is a reply to message #94076 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 05:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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Hi Shapies,

Suddenly it strikes me after reading the post by HenrikRydberg, that shoppers with multiple ring sizes might have an issue. Therefor could you please confirm this...

I have a shop primary offering rings. I printed all of these... most of them in Premium Silver. However since I'm offering multiple ring sizes I obviously only printed one ring size for a photo shoot and as a test print. But the rest of the ring sizes are actually different models offered for private sales and then linked up to the public sales model.

Please take a look at my shop and confirm whether I would have a problem with 'first to try' on all of my linked products that are same model but uploaded in a different size and not 3D printed as only the public for sale is printed.

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/iba

I hope this is not causing a lot of 'first to try' :-/

Cheers,

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94413 is a reply to message #94412 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 06:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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@Inspired_By_Architecture we can`t see it , only you can.

I have tested and looks "First to try" got switched by Material and Material Family , and does not apply to all : Example : Pendant printed in Polished Silver has : Polished Silver listed as PRODUCT and other materials "First to Try".

So the "You must purchase all to get out of First to Try" rule got dropped in favor of "First to Try" by material/Material Family and product with 100% will get a badge PRODUCT.

Looks like our voice it heard and things really change.

So easy answer to you : What you have printed in Premium Silver will activate at finished product on that material family now ... we must see how families get listed.

Family part it is unclear like : Having Polished Silver dropped from Precious Metals ?! And have Polished Brass in there ?! There it is clearly need to be listed by way of production : Something cast , goes WAX , CAST , POLISH -> Natural it is to be valid for all CAST Material in one FAMILY , not by finishes and stuff , including WAX active ,. RAW active , Polished active -> there are the steps of production identical , same process involved.


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94417 is a reply to message #94412 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 06:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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Different Sizes
Different sizes will be for sure a problem, since it can't be determined which models are connected.

The same problem I have with different items having only different text.

And due to minimal thickness, ... and a lot of other designer rules different sizes can lead to "not printable" 3d meshes.

Interface enhancements

At least one point to get rid of that would be scaling (with only increasing factors) when we ensure that the smallest item is printable (up to the maximal bounding box for the material). But that needs an extra step from the SW's interface side.

For text I don't have an idea but that would result in some automatic cocreator function like adding text to an item on a specific position.

Status graph


Beta => First Trial => Product => Design Updated

A minimal design update is a permanent topic in my case (based on some user input or other criteria). Both can happen:it's minimal without any significant change to the printing but as often I have wall thickness topics :( ...

Beta (User sets to ) First Trial
Beta (new upload) Beta
Beta (printed ok) Beta
Beta (printed nok) Beta
Beta (User sets to, and this version printed ok) Product
First Trial (printed ok) Product
First Trial (new upload) Beta
First Trial (printed nok) Beta
First Trial (user sets to) Beta
Product (printed nok less then x%) Beta
Product (new upload) Updated
Product (printed ok) Product
Product (user sets to) Beta
Updated (printed ok) Product
Updated (printed nok) Beta
Updated (user sets to) Beta

That's a quick status graph (not completely clean ;) but from my point of view but please show yours to discuss that more deeply.
Also the names should be discussed to have the best choice. To my point of view "First Trial" is not the best choice.

Woody64

P.S.: is there an extra form for the "First Trial" discussion?

[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2014 07:07 UTC]


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Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94419 is a reply to message #94413 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 07:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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I'm not concerned about the one specific model offered for sale as public. I'm concerned about the same models offered for sale as private models. Therefor I asked Shapeways or any other who know 100% how this is going to apply to take a look at my shop. My private models are visible to ANYONE hwo actually visits my shop as the URL's are linked with the public models.

Example:
My IBA11 Butterfly ring is offered for public sale as US size 7 (this you can tell by the title on the secific model page you are visiting). This model is printed in Premium silver and raw brass for the US SIZE 7 ring. However, I'm also offering for sale the size 6, 6.5, 7.5, 8 and 8.5. These models are offered for private sales but the corresponding URL's are linked to the public model of the US7 size which I have as default. Therefore if you go to the IBA11 ring from the main page of my shop you will be able to visit all other ring sizes!!

NOW... the big $1.000.000 question:
As only the US SUZE 7 ring has been printed in Premium Silver and Raw brass and NOT the size 6, 6.5, 7.5, 8 and 8.5 which are ALL the exact same model BUT uploaded to Shapeways as a new model in order to offer different ring sizes.... will all of these sizes the have the 'FIRST TO TRY' label as these models have not exactly been printed??? If this this 'first to try' label is applied automtically I don't see how Shapeways can avoid all other models to be affected with this label...

But if that is the case it will kill my shop and all other shops with different ring sizes. Obviously you need to print your model when offering it for sale that's fair. But if you offer a design in 6 sizes nobody will be able to print all 6 sizes in all materials required to get rid of the 'first to try' label!!!! And NOBODY will buy a product with 'first to try'.

So I somebody could please tell me if the first to try' label will affect those ring sizes which are same models of a successfully printed model but have not exactly been printed themselves.

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/iba

Cheers,

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94420 is a reply to message #94419 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 07:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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I have taken a look at your shop to see what you are meaning with "linked".
You are using the tool to add some link in the description of the item.

Since that's only html I think that it doesn't affect any other sizes in the ways you intend (printed in one size => product for all sizes).
Since you don't have tested the smallest size there can be still problems in the sizes 6 and 6.5.

... only assumptions.

As mentioned above that would only work with some sizing parameter for a model (eliminating the need for different models in our shops)

Woody64

[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2014 07:21 UTC]


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Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94421 is a reply to message #94419 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 07:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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I guess it must be an Exception Flag for rings ??? With condition to be same scaled model from smallest size ?! Like from Size8 up ... other option it is Shapeways to implement the autoscale function for Rings ? Aka User upload file , add the size of the ring : 18.14-18.20 and Shapeways software to get it to be other sizes 19 ...

Rings really are a "problem" , and a auto-scale function can clean it like 80% some "special" cases needs ring redesign.

Still scratching my head , but yeah ... scale thing will be awesome for sculptures too as long they are passing the "Thickness check" we can have auto-scaled sculptures /miniatures at the request of the client.

It can be a solution , not the greatest but a middle one and not so hard for a programmer to code.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2014 07:26 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94436 is a reply to message #94421 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 11:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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In my opinion:

1. The new Renders are good;

2. 'First to try' is a terrible idea. Include the information in a more neutral way, if you must, but this wording is a no-no.

3. SW staff please try to make your posts shorter and more to the point: your audience is international and brevity and clarity should be important.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94443 is a reply to message #94372 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 14:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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numarul7 wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 16:52

@bdickason

Hi I have this one http://shpws.me/uDmR it gives me 100% production success rate on Polished Silver , Raw Silver , Raw Brass , Raw Bronze ?!

..

o.O How Polished Bronze it is different so much from Polished silver ?!



The naming in this instance is not so clear on our end, sorry :(

Premium silver and polished brass share the same production process and are polished by hand after lost wax casting. Polished silver is also made with lost wax casting, but is polished in a tumbler afterwards. Since they are polished using different processes, a model that may be ok with one polishing method may not be in another.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94444 is a reply to message #94443 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 15:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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kzasada wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 14:48

numarul7 wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 16:52

@bdickason

Hi I have this one http://shpws.me/uDmR it gives me 100% production success rate on Polished Silver , Raw Silver , Raw Brass , Raw Bronze ?!

..

o.O How Polished Bronze it is different so much from Polished silver ?!



The naming in this instance is not so clear on our end, sorry :(

Premium silver and polished brass share the same production process and are polished by hand after lost wax casting. Polished silver is also made with lost wax casting, but is polished in a tumbler afterwards. Since they are polished using different processes, a model that may be ok with one polishing method may not be in another.




From the material page of Polished Silver : "Polished silver is lightly hand polished to achieve a smooth finish but still can have some surface texture."

RAW SILVER it is Mechanical Poloshed "Raw silver is mechanically polished so may show print lines and have a rougher surface texture" and can crack some designs.

Here https://www.shapeways.com/materials/silver?li=nav use reading glasses. So has identical process "by hand".

[Updated on: Sun, 20 July 2014 15:11 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94445 is a reply to message #94419 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 15:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 07:12


Example:
My IBA11 Butterfly ring is offered for public sale as US size 7 (this you can tell by the title on the secific model page you are visiting). This model is printed in Premium silver and raw brass for the US SIZE 7 ring. However, I'm also offering for sale the size 6, 6.5, 7.5, 8 and 8.5. These models are offered for private sales but the corresponding URL's are linked to the public model of the US7 size which I have as default. Therefore if you go to the IBA11 ring from the main page of my shop you will be able to visit all other ring sizes!!

NOW... the big $1.000.000 question:
As only the US SUZE 7 ring has been printed in Premium Silver and Raw brass and NOT the size 6, 6.5, 7.5, 8 and 8.5 which are ALL the exact same model BUT uploaded to Shapeways as a new model in order to offer different ring sizes.... will all of these sizes the have the 'FIRST TO TRY' label as these models have not exactly been printed??? If this this 'first to try' label is applied automtically I don't see how Shapeways can avoid all other models to be affected with this label...





As a few people have mentioned, scaling and sizes are not something that we have a good way of handling today on Shapeways.

Today when you upload a file, it is a completely unique geometry to our system-- we have no way to tell if the small amount of text you added will be printable or not, or if it is simply a bigger or smaller version of an existing model that we have. We are working on better ways to understand that you have a product for sale that is a ring, and model a, b, c and d are all versions of that ring in different sizes.

We are also looking into how you can scale a model on our site, and in general a better understanding of what changes will have no impact on the printability of a model and will incorporate those into the print success rate once we are confident in them.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94446 is a reply to message #94444 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 15:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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numarul7 wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 15:06



From the material page of Polished Silver : "Polished silver is lightly hand polished to achieve a smooth finish but still can have some surface texture."

RAW SILVER it is Mechanical Poloshed "Raw silver is mechanically polished so may show print lines and have a rougher surface texture" and can crack some designs.

Here https://www.shapeways.com/materials/silver?li=nav use reading glasses. So has identical process "by hand".


Sorry it is Sunday morning, my reading glasses are in another room :)

My understanding of these processes is what I mentioned above, but I've raised the question as to why premium & polished silver don't share a print success rate and will let you know once I have an answer.
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94448 is a reply to message #94419 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 16:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 07:12

And NOBODY will buy a product with 'first to try'.

I always told my kids: be careful when you use the word "never".

At the risk of starting a flame war, I think using the adjective NObody here is overly harsh. Having FTT on a model is not automatically the same as "not available for purchase". For one thing.. commissioned or requested items will "always" sell regardless of the FTT moniker. And, over 3/4 of my shop has sold before - those models would not have the FTT.

I'm sure that Auguste Rodin had no problems selling the first version of the "The Thinker" - it was a commissioned project. He went on from there to make multiple copies in multiple sizes. And, Rodin received the commission based upon his body of work - they didn't hire someone off the street - he had a reputation.

My suggestion is that we collaborate on a positive solution to the core issue: Models by inexperienced designers that are other than what they are represented to be. How does an inexperienced buyer know what they are going to receive? How much (lost) labor must Shapeways expend producing models only to have to completely refund the purchaser's money?


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94460 is a reply to message #94445 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 21:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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[quote title=kzasada wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 15:41]
Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 07:12


We are working on better ways to understand that you have a product for sale that is a ring, and model a, b, c and d are all versions of that ring in different sizes.

We are also looking into how you can scale a model on our site, and in general a better understanding of what changes will have no impact on the printability of a model and will incorporate those into the print success rate once we are confident in them.



@Kzasada, I hope what you mentioned in the above quote is going to be implemented to the shops before Shapeways is going to launch the 'first to try' label???

Cheers, Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94462 is a reply to message #94448 ] Sun, 20 July 2014 21:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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Hi StonySmith,

Believe me, I would really like to be optimistic in this case and hope people will not pay too much attention to the 'first to try' label and about you being right about the never say never :-) BUT, I'd really be surprised if somebody is going to pay $800 for a ring in Platinium saying 'first to try' !!! It's already a huge challenge to have people buy products like rings in the shop because the can't try it on their own hand. And If they are studying the material characteristics in advance and pay attention to the metal shrinkage percentage... then they'd also be in doubt whether the ring size will actually fit.More obstacles won't exactly do any good in order to get a shop up and going.

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: regarding first try and different ring sizes [message #94470 is a reply to message #94448 ] Mon, 21 July 2014 05:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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stonysmith wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 16:46

Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sun, 20 July 2014 07:12

And NOBODY will buy a product with 'first to try'.

My suggestion is that we collaborate on a positive solution to the core issue: Models by inexperienced designers that are other than what they are represented to be. How does an inexperienced buyer know what they are going to receive? How much (lost) labor must Shapeways expend producing models only to have to completely refund the purchaser's money?


For the majority the BETA label is a good thing. I would strongly recommend to have this status always at the beginning as default.

All shop owner are handling their products and are setting materials and other items. Putting it from BETA to "First to try" would not be a challenge.

Still believe "First to Try" has to be discussed (I always had a similar text added to my items - Testing) but my items are in the very low price range.

At the end here we are in one of the most important discussions: how can 3d printing work for the mass and people wanting to make business with it. Here we are far away from working business cases.

Still wondering that updating an item makes so less troubles to the rest of the designers here. For me it would be a major issue since nearly all items got an update after beeing printed the first time. The need for that (in the past) can be so simple like getting a better render ....

Woody64


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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94813 is a reply to message #94298 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 08:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Sloris  is currently offline Sloris
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I agree with many of the above posts that 'first to try' will be detrimental to designer sales. Shapeways staff is saying the phrase is positive, but most of us don't agree. It seems like shapeways is 100 percent set on their course and has no intention of changing any of the new 'improvements,' they just want to have a place where we can vent and they can explain. That said, I can't help but add a couple suggestions:

A straightforward way to increase customer satisfaction: search results should show successfully printed products first (in any material). I just searched 'coffee,' 'ring,' and 'toy' and a large portion of the initial results are rendered pictures. Wouldn't a customer feel more secure if when they searched they found actual products?

Since shapeways isn't budging on this 'first to try' idea, will shapeways listen if we brainstorm some more positive phrases? 'First to Try' seems like one more obstacle for making a sale. 'Be the First' or something that encouraged the customer to continue with their purchase might work better for us, while not hurting shapeways.

What about items with different sizes like rings and bracelets? It seems unfair that we have to print all our sizes in all our desired materials.



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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94816 is a reply to message #94813 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 10:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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"Be the first" .... is much better!!!!

Also agree with different sizes. For real shop owners and users handling their shops that might be a real issue.For unmanaged products/shops it's not.
Recently setup a cocreator item where SW solution stopped on the half way. Size could be a cocreator parameter as long as the wall thickness check succeeds (but needs to be reflected in the pricing afterwards)

I really like the new render option since it helps a lot ...
Also I understand the issue of rejected models and guaranteeing a proper print. But needs some adaptations for different sizes and new uploaded versions of an item.
Based on the status change table I have published in the threads I would propose:
Product (new upload, wall thickness ok) => Product
Product (new upload, wall thickness nok) => Be the first





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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94818 is a reply to message #94816 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 11:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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BE THE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Awesome, Sloris.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94823 is a reply to message #94076 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 12:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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*Be The First' as suggested by Sloris is a brilliant suggestion. This is a clear example of how the meaning of words can cnange into a positive message and in fact encourage the customer to buy rather than the 'First to try' which most likely will stop the customer from buying.

Change the words... that will help the shop owners a lot.

Another suggestion would be to actually offer the first costumer a discount/credit for being the first to try out a print in a specific material. This could be set under the new 'Selling' (old 'pricing') tab under edit model.

SW could add a new 'first print markup' which should only apply to the first print in any material. The base price would still be the same so Shapeways would loose anything by doing so. Only one to loose a little markup would be the shop owner but he/she will get rid of the 'Be The First' label.

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94825 is a reply to message #94823 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 13:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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People sell private stuff in here , so having that limited markup will not be for use.

Be the first ... can be a better thing.

Rather `first to try , first to cry , first to die` ...we can become `first to say bye bye` ... err :D (kidding)

[Updated on: Sun, 27 July 2014 13:23 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94826 is a reply to message #94823 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 13:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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Inspired_By_Architecture wrote on Sun, 27 July 2014 12:41

....

Another suggestion would be to actually offer the first costumer a discount/credit for being the first to try out a print in a specific material. This could be set under the new 'Selling' (old 'pricing') tab under edit model.

SW could add a new 'first print markup' which should only apply to the first print in any material. The base price would still be the same so Shapeways would loose anything by doing so. Only one to loose a little markup would be the shop owner but he/she will get rid of the 'Be The First' label.

Mike


Another awesome idea!

Shapeways, we need NOW a designers to customers discount tool.

This is a suggestion in this thread from a month ago

https://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=19701 &start=0&

but only Andrew from Shapeways write a reply, but with an interim solution that many designers is doing now, and that is useless with the new "First to Fail" banner of our models.

MEANING OF WORDS: BE THE FIRST!
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94828 is a reply to message #94826 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 15:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar wgseligman  is currently offline wgseligman
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For what it's worth, I'll add my voice to those agreeing with Sloris' suggestion of "Be the First" instead of "First to Try." One of the cardinal rules of marketing is be positive. "Be the First" is encouraging, yet still potentially warns the customers of printing issues.

Out of curiosity: As I understand it, Shapeways is implementing this warning in order to reduce the number of rejected models and disappointed purchasers. If, after the change, the number of customer complaints does not change, would Shapeways consider removing the warning?
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94830 is a reply to message #94828 ] Sun, 27 July 2014 17:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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I doubt! It is a legal thing to to warn people that the product they get can be affected by production ... we can see that on some car adverts too ... but with a little little little 0.2 sec text.


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94845 is a reply to message #94830 ] Mon, 28 July 2014 06:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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While I agree that "be the first" sounds much better than "first to try", the problem remains that as a customer one cannot see when a model was uploaded - so does "be the first" mean "... after the designer finished working on this last night" or "...in all these years who actually buys this thing" ?

And I still think that this is not the right solution to the problem - I believe it is not so much the new models that one needs to worry about, but rather the new customers. One can have 20 technically successful prints of some WSF ring that is represented by a flashy photorealistic render, and get 19 disappointed customers who never saw "first to try" but are not likely to try again when the costume jewelry they looked forward to suddenly looks like something out of a chewing gum vending machine. What is needed IMHO is a big disclaimer page presented somewhere in the checkout process that reminds people that they get something printed on demand, with specific process restrictions, and in the case of plastics comes unpainted and possibly even improperly cleaned no matter what colorful pictures were to be seen in the shop.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94851 is a reply to message #94845 ] Mon, 28 July 2014 11:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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Here a `first to try` like product that never printed and client ordered it and printed 100% in Polished Silver.

index.php?t=getfile&id=66333&private=0

Now I`m back to my question ... why this it is separate from precious family when it is Silver ?


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94957 is a reply to message #94076 ] Wed, 30 July 2014 12:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MayCrown  is currently offline MayCrown
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"First to try" is such a disaster in its current state. One of my cufflinks was 3d printed 3 times successfully, I've improved the cufflink back, everything is the same, just the back changed, and now better and Cooler, and it's a minor change in terms of printability. Now it says first to try, there are real photos of it. A disaster for designers.

Also it's mind boggling for customers. What? Wait a minute. You're emphasizing the fact that the products they order have a chance of not being able to be produced. And many of the products in this website should be like this, that the website owner was overwhelmed to put this remark.

And even damaging to shapeways reputation.

And you're again drowning the average customer with too many details.

And the printability rate: You incept this idea deep down in the customer's mind: "This thing can be printed 10 times, 9 times successful and that 1 time unsuccessfull may come to me, I'm already an unlucky person. I should not take this risk."

Give us a break, we are already dealing with issues like low traffic to the website, not being able to have stocks, etc. This is a backwards step.

Best regards.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 July 2014 12:16 UTC]


If chance will have me King, why, chance may crown me without my stir.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95066 is a reply to message #94957 ] Thu, 31 July 2014 20:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar carine  is currently offline carine
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Hey guys,

Thanks for all the constructive feedback. Please know that we're taking it all to heart, and it's really helpful to hear your suggestions. We've been thinking about some of these ideas already like...
- @inspired_by_architecture 's idea to be able to run promotions on your early stage products
- We're also looking into ways to surface more relevant and nuanced information to your customers about both the product (versions, history, etc) and you as a Shop Owner (what you've done on SW, and some of the things that make you human and awesome). The more your stellar reputations shine through, the more customers will purchase your products.

Regarding "First to Try," if it's helpful context, I wanted to share that we've done a TON of market research to inform the features and also the communications around them.

Why might someone buy a First to Try product on Shapeways? Well...turns out lots of reasons:
- They want to a support you, and are also excited about being able to talk to you (creators and designers aren't always this accessible)
- They want to be a part of a creative process
- They care about products with a story behind it, and being the first is definitely a part of the story.
- For the early adopters shopping on Shapeways, being first is a badge of honor (like @stonysmith mentioned)

Right now, though, the experience of buying an untested product is very mixed for shoppers. Sometimes, they get an amazing product and are seriously WOW'ed. Other times, they're so unhappy they send us notes saying things like: "This was nothing close to what I thought I was getting. I'm totally disappointed"

I know you can all understand why having disappointed customers is not great for your business. What's worse, they often tell their friends not to buy, which can hinder your growth. We really really want to make sure we set the right expectations for customers so they're always wow'ed, tell all their friends to check out your product, and ultimately, grow your sales.

To help spur excitement, we'll be doing some things like sending follow up emails to those folks who bought in Beta or First to Try to encourage them to support you with photos, feedback, and general high fives.

Regarding the name, "Be the first" is definitely something we can incorporate into the language explaining what they're doing -- we'll try to weave it into the text that explains First to Try on the product page and elsewhere.

As background, we got feedback from potential shoppers on various names and learned that "try" was important for expectation setting, and "first" really helped set a positive connotation. Here's just a glimpse into one step in the naming process:
index.php?t=getfile&id=66733&private=0

I know this a big change...please trust that we made these decisions with your sales in mind. If you don't succeed, Shapeways doesn't succeed.

Thanks again and here if you have any more ?s or concerns!
Carine


Director of Marketing, Shapeways
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95068 is a reply to message #95066 ] Thu, 31 July 2014 21:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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Here what my client said

"Well, here they finally are.
The Lucky Love pendant is great. I love it.

The white background might not have been the best choice for taking pics.
If you want I can make some more with a dark background, so the pendant stands out more.

I bought it in polished silver and it really is like a mirror as you can see in the pics. "

I have renamed it to Lucky Love Splash to reflect the collection it is part of.

I understand that not all designers lands with so much positive feedback , and they try to make it work.

Even Facebook has "be the first to like" ...


Nice wall! I love it! Looks like my drawing paper full of ideas! :D


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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95072 is a reply to message #94957 ] Thu, 31 July 2014 21:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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MayCrown wrote on Wed, 30 July 2014 12:04


"First to try" is such a disaster in its current state. One of my cufflinks was 3d printed 3 times successfully, I've improved the cufflink back, everything is the same, just the back changed, and now better and Cooler, and it's a minor change in terms of printability. Now it says first to try, there are real photos of it. A disaster for designers.



THe topic of updating items needs a concept with "first to try" otherwise all invests we as designer take is senseless


More then 8700 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95137 is a reply to message #95072 ] Fri, 01 August 2014 21:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Thanks everyone for your feedback and suggestions— we have addressed a number of oddities, confusing bits, and bugs that you have pointed out. I know you all care deeply about how your products are displayed on Shapeways, and we want to be good stewards to the products that you have designed. We are planning to start showing these features (Beta, First To Try & Material Renders) to everyone who visit Shapeways late next week, incorporating more positive messaging and fixing many of the bugs along the way. We will also be releasing an option for you to opt out of displaying renders on your shop early next week, before we short showing renders publicly.

As for "Be the First", thanks for the suggestion! I'm using that phrase prominently in the description and how we tell Shoppers about it. :) As Carine shared, we put a lot of thought into the words and names we are using here, but are still considering how we can make sure the name is positive and exciting to customers who are looking to be one of the first to buy your product.

Wgseligman is close— we're implementing this to set expectations for our customers. We have to create a product from nylon powder (or acrylic, or stainless steel power... ) every single time a customer buys a product. At Amazon, the products you buy exist already and are waiting in a warehouse for a customer to purchase it. Customers expect that, and we have an obligation to let them know that we are different. So it is about exposing ideas such as rejections to shoppers, but also help them understand the process so if they happen to get a rejection (something we are working hard to making sure doesn't happen to anyone), they understand why. It buys forgiveness, instead of anger. That being said, if this doesn't help our customers understand the challenges of 3d printing better, and doesn't make them happier with their Shapeways purchase, we still need to solve that problem for our entire marketplace to grow. We are successful if you as Shop Owners are successful. If the warnings don't work, we'll certainly consider removing them or how we can approach the problem differently.

Numarul7: We are looking at Premium vs Polished silver with our production teams now to see if the print success rate can be combined. The polishing is slightly different, but you're probably right that they should be combined. Stay tuned...

MayCrown: as Carine mentioned, today we have customers who come to our site and don't understand the complexities of 3D printing. ALL items at Shapeways start out with a chance that we might not be able to make them— 3D printing is hard, and as Designers you all understand the complexities, but many of our customers do not.

Sloris: We've considered removing never printed before products from search, but we ended up not moving forward as we want all products to have a place on Shapeways, regardless of if they have been printed before or not! Also, it didn't make the search results any better ;)
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95141 is a reply to message #95137 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 03:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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Thank you!

PS: Prepares for gremlins... next week... I hope it won`t rain!!!

[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2014 03:45 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95143 is a reply to message #94076 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 06:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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To the shapeways team...

I can understand that the new shop features will be implemented next week so I just want to summarize all the issues I believe is important:
1) in my case the shapeways renders looks really bad... They don't look like the real products and more crucial they render some triangulation and stud that is not a part of the inal product. Therefore I hope the renders wil be improved. In any case shop owners should be able to disable the renders if they decide to do their own more realistic renders (not sure if this is the case at the moment)
2) with all the new renders there are many photos/renders attached to each product... Therefore it is more important than ever to be able to control the display order of photos/renders. As it is now you would have to delete all photos and re-upload which is NOT good enough.
3) the first to try really alls for a solution for multiple ring sizes before it goes live. It's not ok that a product printed in various materials successfully but offered in 5-8 sizes will display first to try. Therefore it should be possible to somehow group/link products that are the same but different sizes in the print succes rate calculation.

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95144 is a reply to message #95143 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 07:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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I really like the renders for my products and see a real advantage. Since I have already played around a lot I also have to support Mike and many others:

1) we need a way to sort the images.
2) printed for different sizes ore very similar things is a issue.

By the way: why do I see 100% success for pWSF and "never printed" for colored pWSF. Does that make sense?

Woody64


More then 8700 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95146 is a reply to message #95144 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 07:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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woody64 wrote on Sat, 02 August 2014 07:16

I really like the renders for my products and see a real advantage. Since I have already played around a lot I also have to support Mike and many others:

1) we need a way to sort the images.
2) printed for different sizes ore very similar things is a issue.

By the way: why do I see 100% success for pWSF and "never printed" for colored pWSF. Does that make sense?

Woody64


Polishing it is mechanical on the colored WSF ...some design can crack! "grin"

[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2014 07:21 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #95147 is a reply to message #95146 ] Sat, 02 August 2014 07:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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No, there's 100% for polished WSF and never printed for the colours ...


More then 8700 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr Twitter
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD, How to Become a 3D Printing Entrepreneur
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once) More the 500 successful Products (Items&material printed once)

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