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**UPDATE: NOW LIVE!! **First To Try & Beta Products** [message #94076] Wed, 16 July 2014 20:05 UTC Go to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Here at Shapeways, we're changing how products are made and by whom. We have makers and designers from all over the world, some of whom are making their first product, and others who have been professional product designers for their whole lives. They're creating everything from jewelry to rocket ships, GoPro accessories to chess sets - anything is possible. No matter what they're making, though, we know how tough the creative process can be. Taking a great idea and making it real takes a lot of hard work and iteration before amazing products just "come to life".

With 3D printing, designers are not alone in the creative process. They don't have to spend thousands of dollars to get the form and function just right, and they don't have to wait to go to market until they've undergone extensive testing. With the support of their friends and fans, they can share their products with the world and get the feedback they need -- wherever they are in the product development process. We're committed to helping you create great products, by embracing iteration and encouraging your customers to actively participate in earlier stages of product development. Step one is setting the right expectations, and step two is opening up the conversation around products.

Today, we are excited to give you, our community, a sneak peek into two new ways to get support and feedback on early stage products that we'll release later this summer: Beta Products and First To Try. You can see all of the new tools on your model edit page today and preview what your products will look like when this is released to shoppers later in the summer.

First To Try

3D printing a model in every material finish you'd like to offer for sale can be quite expensive. We're working hard to reduce the barriers to entry and we don't ever want to make you 3D print a model in every finish yourself (unless you prefer to, and we know some of you do). However, because 3D printing is still new, some customers don't understand the risks subtleties involved with 3D printing and can be disappointed if their product doesn't turn out the way they were expecting. In the past you guys asked for things such as a "printed before" badge on products, but we've found that customers don't always understand the concept of printed before and what it means.

As a part of our efforts to increase transparency about the manufacturing process with designers and shoppers, we are going to show a "First To Try" label on any product that hasn't been printed before in that material, based on the Print Success Rate. This helps shoppers understand our level of confidence that we can successfully create the product that they want to buy.

Once you or your customers have successfully printed your product in each material you're offering for sale, the First To Try label won't apply any longer. There are a few ways to progress through First To Try:
You can enlist your friends, fans and community to buy your product and share a photo, which will be important for your long term product success
You can print the product in your preferred materials and ensure you meet the Print Success Rate before you launch your product
You can disable the materials that haven't been successfully printed before

Material Renders

We've heard you complain that the default grey render on the product page isn't very exciting and we agree. We're really excited to begin rolling out beautiful new renders that match the color and finish of all of our materials, so you can show a customer exactly what the product will look like. This will also help customers visualize what a product will look like even if it has never been printed before. We'll be labelling all new Material Renders so that shoppers don't get confused, but we think it's a lot better than the grey. Learn more here: Material Renders.

Beta Products

From our conversations with experienced designers, we understand that design is inherently a collaborative process. Big design houses and small enterprises all know that to get a great product involves iteration, testing, gathering feedback and collaboration.

We've actually already seen examples on Shapeways where designers and customers work together to tweak products and make them more personal. We want to make it easier for Shapeways Shop Owners to tap into this trend and develop deeper, ongoing connections with their customers.

Beta Products help to fuel this kind of collaboration. These are early stage products that are in active development and are being improved upon through product iteration. As a Shop Owner, you will be able to invite your friends, fans, and communities to support you in the product development process.

Another thing we've heard you ask for a lot is a way to communicate with your customers. By putting your product in Beta you will have a private comment stream do just that. We see a lot of this happening in comment streams today on Shapeways, but we wanted to provide a private place to encourage honest feedback. Elaborate on your goals, get feedback on how it fits, whether they like the design and keep your customers up to date on the progress of your product. We'll also be encouraging customers who buy a product in Beta to post their comments and share photos with you after they receive their product.

Your product page will prominently announce that your product is in Beta, and has space for you to tailor a specific message to your customers. Putting your product in Beta is totally optional - you can choose to make your product a Beta Product or to move it out of Beta at any time. While we think it will be helpful for newer designers, we understand that more experienced designers amongst you may already be doing this process yourself.

The Future of Product Development at Shapeways

With a process as new and rapidly-changing as 3D printing, expectation setting is critical. But we know there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We'll continue to build more tools to help you solicit support from the community and help them understand how the process works.

Learn more about Product Development at Shapeways, or jump into the tutorials on how to use First To Try, Material Renders & Beta Products in your shop today.

We're really excited about these new additions to our marketplace, and I would love for you to join the discussion here to let us know what you think!

-Kate

Edited to fix links :)

[Updated on: Thu, 07 August 2014 15:43 UTC] by Moderator

Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94081 is a reply to message #94076 ] Wed, 16 July 2014 20:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Quote:

Learn more here: Material Renders.

This link is missing/broken - also cannot see where it is on my Models.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94082 is a reply to message #94081 ] Wed, 16 July 2014 20:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Ah, my links are broken. Fixing now, but material render posing tutorial link is here: https://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/how-to-pose-your-render

Also, you can see renders by going to the Details tab on edit model, then scrolling down & posing then saving your render. It takes some time (up to 10 minutes), but then you'll be able to see them along with the photos on that page.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94087 is a reply to message #94082 ] Wed, 16 July 2014 21:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Ermmm...renders generated (some time ago and not for the new precious metals) but not appearing on my product Heart Cage Pendant - Small, No Arrow.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94088 is a reply to message #94087 ] Wed, 16 July 2014 21:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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You might just be too quick with trying - could be that the new features will only go live later tonight with the usual weekly site updates. (Guessing she might just have wanted to get the message out before leaving for the day, must be something like 5pm in NY now)
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94089 is a reply to message #94088 ] Wed, 16 July 2014 21:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Indeed we wanted to get the message out before end of day here in NY, but for renders I could have been more clear about the timing: we're allowing you to pose & generate your renders today, but they won't be shown to the public for a few more weeks.

This means that your renders are not visible in your shop today.

We saw that most renders were better when we had a chance to adjust them, so that they weren't upside down or backwards. Before we spend 10 days in computer time (!) creating renders for every single model on the site, we're letting you pose your render first if you would like.

We'll add a preview link to that section, but you can preview by going to the "Selling" Tab and clicking on the Preview link under First To Try or Beta Products. This will show you the renders in the product page as everyone will see it soon.

edited for grammar.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 July 2014 21:45 UTC]

Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94104 is a reply to message #94089 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 04:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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The "set default photo" get locked on the 3D render so people can`t change to the photo of the product.

It is a bug?


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94109 is a reply to message #94089 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 05:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Can I suggest a stripped down version of your original post? One specifying simply the actual features and the expected date of implementation.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 05:38 UTC]

Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94137 is a reply to message #94076 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 14:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Hey guys,

With regards to render posing, please give us your feedback in THIS FORM

We have a column for employee responses so you can see what we're doing with all your suggestions in REAL TIME!!

Cheers,
Natalia


Shapeways Community Manager
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94141 is a reply to message #94137 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 15:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar railNscale  is currently offline railNscale
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Hello,

Regarding First To Try, I have some remarks.
In our shop http://www.shapeways.com/shops/rail-n-scale, you will see that ALL our models where printed before. ALL our models are displayed with photos. Since we have many composed models (containing multiple identical, or a combination of products), we do not print all the composed models. This would be too cosltly to do. However we made sure that all shown models are in fact printable.

Example: we have a model of a car and a caravan, but also a model with both. The car and caravan where printed separately with success. The composed model with both car and caravan was not ordered by us. But we know it is printable.

With the feature 'First To Print', our customers will be confused or may wonder whether the actual model can be printed. Now, probably most of our customers are not at all accustomed to 3D printing or its capabilities at all. They just want our models, because you cannot buy these anywhere else. So adding this information to clients without any kind of 3D printing knowledge will probably be not of any help.

Adding the fact that the vast majority of our clients is not native English speaking and often aged 50 years + will also not contribute to the communication.

So, what is SW up to? Scaring potential customers? Confusing potential customers? In the best case they may think they are the Guineapigs. Would you buy products that are labelled 'maybe not printable' ? Because, that is what you are trying to tell with 'First To Try'. I think this not wise.

It is surely a pity that SW still not seems to understand that there is a HUGE difference between designers as client, and the customers who never design a thing. In stead of making your shop more easy to understand. Similar to the 'normal' webshops, in multiple languages, you just add technical blah blah.

Another rather stupid example is the way you inform customers about seemingly failed prints. Also here, you start a communication to parties that really do not understand where you talk about, and more importantly do not want to be bothered with this. They just want the ordered models. Not the underhood discussions.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE


railNscale 'Een verrijking voor uw miniatuurwereld' railNscale.wordpress.com
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94144 is a reply to message #94141 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 15:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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The idea it is to be ease to manage 2.000.000 items on Shapeways and make them on a category.

And make some clients support designers when they make something.

Beta Product it is passing like Print it Anyway to the client ? And if will print ok will go out of beta when designer wants with 100% printed if passes that ?

There must be a better communication because we are not full English speakers and confusion can be very HIGH.



Better to have "First To Try" by material , If I have printed in Silver and client bought in Silver it goes off the "First To Try" for that MATERIAL. Then Shapeway can use a filter for finished product to put to the public in an organised way.

Why go on "First To Try" on all material default ? It is wrong and nobody can buy as designer a 3.000 platinum thing , but they can design it , and can be "First to Try" only on that material. And have the "Silver" "Brass" without "Frist to Try" because they are NOT FIRST TO TRY!

I know programmers have fixations , and are lazy sometime , but this can kill customers will before they buy!


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94145 is a reply to message #94144 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 15:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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I second railNscale's sentiments. "First to try" is a dare, not an offer - you might as well just adopt the model of some of your competitors, requiring a designer to demonstrate printability by buying a model himself before it can be offered for sale. Having (at a wild guess) half the items in the shops openly flagged with "this will probably not work anyway" will not exactly increase sales. Even considering such a move suggests that third-party customer satisfaction with shapeways must be less than stellar ??
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94146 is a reply to message #94145 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 15:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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Adding "buy in the material before offer to sell" will make that 2.000.000+ of products/models on Shapeways to become 10.000 like the other competitor has and that literally cuts all the clients and designer of it.

Already there it IS a Competitor with same option like Shapeaways and starts with the S in name and it is in USA and France ... only that does not have so much materials.

index.php?t=getfile&id=65270&private=0

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[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 16:08 UTC]


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94159 is a reply to message #94141 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 17:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar FabMeJewelry  is currently offline FabMeJewelry
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We always let you know that we're happy with the changes you make so we'll do the same now for the announcement that we're not happy with.

We agree with railNscale (your shop looks super professional btw :), we totally do not want a "First to try" feature !
How are you going to explain what this means to people who don't know anything about CAD, 3Dprinting or technology and why would you want to ? We've spend way too much $$$ on ordering every product in the material we think works best for that design, now we will end up with 90% of the material options marked as "this could fail", we can imagine customers asking us for a discount to be the first to try...

For most people it will be the first try on 3D printing, that alone is exciting enough !
We're not going to order every product in every material so the only other option is disabling the materials that will get the tag :(

The renders are a big + but they should be clearly marked so that people will understand that the actual product will never look the same as the displayed render for that material.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 17:40 UTC]


Wesley Günter - FabMeJewelry.com - Set a course, for the future !
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94160 is a reply to message #94159 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 17:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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"First to fail"

That was epic!

+1 :)))


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Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94172 is a reply to message #94160 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 19:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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See also this thread for concerns about the "New renders" part of the announcement.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94177 is a reply to message #94076 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 19:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kzasada  is currently offline kzasada
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Thank you everyone for the feedback. I know it is a lot of change, but we've been looking at this a lot for the past 6 months and feel that "First To Try" is necessary to bring in more customers who don't always understand 3D printing in order to make our Shop Owners more successful.

@mkroeker We have seen a lot of new customers who don't understand 3d printing who come to Shapeways to buy a product they are excited about who don't know or don't care that it has been 3d printed. are then disappointed for one reason or another, and it always boils down to expectations not being met. They didn't realize it had to be painted themselves, that the finish of strong & flexible plastic isn't perfectly smooth, or they saw a render and the product looked different. So it's not a dare, it's setting the right expectation.

On the other hand, when customers do understand the final product, they are excited about being able to get a product that is made with such a unique process and is made just for them. Our production processes here are different than almost everything else out there on the market, and most of the population has heard of 3d printing but never held something in their hand or thought about what it takes to make something. @FabMeJewelry

We explored at a lot of ways to explain this to customers, and the feedback we got on other approaches of explaining this is that it was too complicated or scary to try. We've had other community members and even shoppers asking for "Printed before" badges for some time now. We never want customers to feel misled by Shapeways, and now we've worked to increase transparency in our production process for makers, we're also trying to do the same in our marketplace for customers.

It is important to note that most of our customers look at a lot of different information to evaluate if they will buy a model, and overwhelmingly the most important thing to them pictures. If you've printed it before and have a picture of the model, it infinitely more powerful to customers than if it has been printed before. So even if you've made some changes, the picture proves that you know what you are doing, and the risk is small. This is also why we added the renders-- it can help you sell a model that hasn't been printed before, since a customer can actually get a guide idea of what it will look like when it does get printed for the first time.

In order to grow our marketplace and bring shop owners a wider audience of people, we need to be transparent with customers about if we've never made something before, otherwise we get angry emails that they don't trust us and never want to come back. It is a minority, but critical for us to make sure this never happens if we want to grow and expand to include people who have no idea what 3d printing is. I hope you all believe me when I say it isn't in our best interests to scare off customers from buying models, but we also can't move forward with our current approach if we expect to keep growing.

@railNscale I understand there are limitations to how it works currently-- we are working on a way to combine multiple models that will maintain the print history, as well as transferring them from one account to another that also maintains a history.

@numarul7 to answer your commentBetter to have "First To Try" by material , If I have printed in Silver and client bought in Silver it goes off the "First To Try" for that MATERIAL. Then Shapeways can use a filter for finished product to put to the public in an organized way. - this IS how this works. So if you print once in premium silver, the print success rate will be the same for other materials that share the same production processed. For premium silver, this includes all other cast & polished materials, such as platinum and gold. My colleague Brad is actually going to hop in here and provide some more detail on the print success rate as it is shared across materials soon as well.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 20:02 UTC] by Moderator

Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94178 is a reply to message #94076 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 20:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar sedstiskyfaller  is currently offline sedstiskyfaller
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I agree that the First to Try feature is not beneficial. I could see it being a great thing to implement for the Beta Products option, but not for everything else.

I am still a new shop owner and have been able to order some products, but cannot afford to order everything in my shop, let alone in every material. I apply things I learn from these models to others in my shop so I know they can be printed successfully. My customer base is not large enough at the moment to support what I offer in my shop under this feature. I appeal to a specialized market.

The Material Render feature, however, is brilliant! I am very much looking forward to this addition as I believe it will help build shops like mine and give the customer a better understanding of the materials.

I see the Material Render feature as beneficial to business on Shapeways, but the First to Try feature as a hinderance.

Best,
Sedsti Skyfaller
First try will kill many shops [message #94190 is a reply to message #94076 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 22:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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I truly hop the first try label will not be implemented!!!!! I don't think it is carefully thought through.

As it is now most shopowners will not be able to afford all of their products printed in all the materials the wish to offer for sales just for a photo shoot. From what I can tell by browsing through the various shops most shop owners stop at Premium Silver to be the most exclusive material they will test print. Printing 14K Gold, 14K Rose Gold, 18K Gold and Platinium price ranging from €250 - €700 simply is too expensive for test print and photo shoot unless you really have a successful professional shop going.

Now Shapeways will launch a 'first try' label on those materials that have not been successfully printed before. This will as I see it stop any potential customer from buying the very expensive precious materials as you might as well label those materials 'print on own risk as this is a prototype'.

I can understand that Shapeways wants to ensure the best quality for their customers and since they are handling the sales for all of the shops the customers are actually Shapeways' customers in the end. However there should be other ways to do this.

Depending on the design many prints will obviously print in the precious materials if the have successfully printed in premium silver without any problems. But with a 'first try' label no-one will now bother to buy. The shop owners will loose potential sales and Shapeways will loose sales.

I think it could be an idea for Shapeways to offer an analysis of a product to guarantee it will print... this could be offered to the shop owners for low cost and eliminate necessity many 'first try' labels.

What do you think about the 'first try' label?

Cheers,

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94191 is a reply to message #94178 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 22:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar FabMeJewelry  is currently offline FabMeJewelry
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We know what you mean @kzasada and we understand why you need to take action but we don't think this is the way to go.
We do understand however that it's our opinion and that there will be shop owners that will like the "first try" feature, we as a brand just don't want to present our products as beta-jewelry. Once things get launched we'll start disabling the affected materials and continue to shine with the current set of printed materials, no prob maybe it will even look cleaner.

Quote @sedstiskyfaller "I see the Material Render feature as beneficial to business on Shapeways"

Totally agree !

[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 22:06 UTC]


Wesley Günter - FabMeJewelry.com - Set a course, for the future !
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94195 is a reply to message #94191 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 22:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bdickason  is currently offline bdickason
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Hi all,

One clarification to something Inspired_By_Architecture and numarul7 have mentioned:
We have recently made a change to the 'Success Rate' of a model (which we use to determine First to Try) so that printing in a material that shares similar guidelines (we call them Guideline Families) will count as a successful print in related material that shares the same process.

For example, we have a 'Finished Cast Metals' family that includes the following materials:
18k Gold, Gold Plated Brass, 14k White Gold, 14K Gold, Polished Brass, Platinum, 14k Rose Gold, Polished Bronze, and Premium Silver

If you print successfully in one of these materials, it will count as a successful print in all of the others. In this way, you could order a test print in Premium Silver and then sell in Platinum with no problem :)

Similarly, we also take into account 'parent' materials.

For example, to manufacture a model in Red Strong & Flexible Polished, we first have to make it in White Strong & Flexible, then polish/dye it. Thus, was consider White Strong & Flexible a 'parent' of Red Strong & Flexible Polished. If you were to successfully print a model in RSFP, you would gain a successful print in WSF as well.

(Note: Because RSFP includes more steps than WSF, a rejection in RSFP will NOT count against your WSF success rate.)

I realize that these 'Guideline Families' aren't documented well yet on the Model Edit page. We are still working to document and explain them publicly through the user interface, but we wanted to make these changes ASAP as they immediately led to a reduction in models we reject :)


Director of Product - Shapeways
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94200 is a reply to message #94191 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 22:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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I think customers really don't go to understand it.

Every week I've receiving messages from customers asking me how much models he's buying, or if he's acquiring the file or the model.

Many times the customer buy the model in default material (usually WSF), and when the model is arrived, he send me a message asking about the material that he saw in a friend's blog (usually FUD).

As more complicated was the display of the model, more new customers gonna be frightened to order.

Customers aren't dumb, but they aren't aware of the information in the display.

It isn't the "first to fail" flag (I'm sure somebody wanted to put a flag of "order at your own risk") is the small and too many messages on the page which will make the customers to mistrust.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94202 is a reply to message #94195 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 22:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Inspired_By_Architecture  is currently offline Inspired_By_Architecture
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Thanks bdickason

WELL, that's a different story. I'm happy to hear that if you have successfully printed a model in premium silver it will also count as a successful print in the rest of the precious materials :-) Then I'm not so scared about the 'first try'.

However I do think you should clarify the family relation you are talking about so no-one will be in any doubt:

So I suggest you implement a 'succes-rate-family' link under the materials menu for shop owners telling something like:

- If you successfully printed premium silver that will also count for 14K Gold, 14K White Gold, 14K Rose Golde and Platinium
- If you successfully printed raw brass you will successfully print raw bronze
- if you successfully printed stainless steel you will successfully print matte bronze steel, polished bronze steel, matte black steel ......and so on.

This will make an easy overview for shop owners for how to make the 'first try' labels disappear as the lowest possible cost.

Thanks for clarifying,

Mike


By Michael C. Poulsen
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94209 is a reply to message #94202 ] Thu, 17 July 2014 23:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar FabMeJewelry  is currently offline FabMeJewelry
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Yes thanks bdickason, we can live with that :) almost got me there hehe.

As for rejections a lot of the time I see models that have interlocking or enclosed parts and set for sale in metals or ceramic, does that lead to a lot of rejections ? I'm sure a tool to detect such things can't be that hard to create.

Also it may be wise to have some people curating the models for easy to detect mistakes by designers and warn them something might not be possible to recreate or that a render or picture is misleading customers. They won't get to catch everything but at leats the products that are visible and people are likely to buy, I browse the site max one or two hours per day and see a lot of things that are risky and often warn fellow designers. If Shapeways would do this actively there would be a lot less rejections I think.

Products that haven't ever been printed before should only be visible in the shop or link shared by the shop owner, not in the model sections or search.
I know you want to let designers push the limits but they sould do that with their own customers not Shapeways, once a product is printed in one of the materials it will be visible everywhere.
***edit*** so beta feature as default***

These are just suggestions, cooling down now and not afraid anymore Thanks again

[Updated on: Thu, 17 July 2014 23:29 UTC]


Wesley Günter - FabMeJewelry.com - Set a course, for the future !
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94221 is a reply to message #94209 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 05:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar railNscale  is currently offline railNscale
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@kzasada: It is nice to learn that you are working on a way to combine multiple models that will maintain the print history.
For the rest, I don't understand it.

Starting with your remark that 3rd-party customers do not really understand a lot of 3D printing, or are disappointed.
- Wouldn't be wise to stop thinking like a 3D designer on this point? But start thinking as a webshop? That means why would you increase the amount of 3D specific information to these group of customers? I often mentioned that customers do not understand and do not care about the 3D printing. If you order something in a webshop, do you care about how the product is made, where its production limitations are, or how difficult logistics can be? Of course not. You just want to get your ordered model. So PLEASE make the SW-shop more easy. Forget the 'First To Try' thing. Even the designers do not really understand it, and -as far as I see here- no single designer wants this. It will scare customers.
And please start working on multiple languages here.

-If customers are disappointed about the appearance of the received product, it could have several reasons:

1. The client never saw an accurate photo of the product, and notes that the 3D printed model is not near to the render (many many designers only have renderings that show a lot of fine details, that will never be visible in the print). SW please encourage designers to add photos to their products. Yes, once you have to buy your model, but isn't that something that any designer should want in the first place? Because of the high price and low sales volumes, it won't be feasible to buy all sorts of variants of a single model. So it is good to see that SW is working on the combining multiple models 'tool'. By adding better renders, I do hope these renders look more like the real life model. Then these renders will not look as nice as they are today. If SW is working on better looking renders, then please sop this action. The disappointment level of the end customers will increase.
Adding the 'Try To Print' message for models that where according SW not printed before will not avoid this problem. Because, once a model was printed, the renders do not change, and photos do not automatically appear on the product page. A first print does not mean that the product actually looks nice.

2. The printed object was orientated differently then the shown example. In some materials (WSF, FUD) the outcome of a 'wrongly' orientated model is very different. I know SW wants to joggle around with orientations for cost reasons. But on the other hand, if you really receive many complaints maybe rethink your process.

3.The printed model is broken or dirty. We noticed that especailly in the busy time December, quite a number of our customers received broken parts. We also noticed that models are cleaned differently. SW should really work on avoiding these mistakes and work on making more uniform product quality. It is unfortunate that SW service is not always responding to complaints.

4. The printed FUD models are difficult to paint. Here I would like to see that in SW there is a big overview on how to clean and how to paint models. We have added all this information on our website, and I think it should be at SW's to (not in a forum, but on a dedicated page).

-The big problem called rejections.
Probably the biggest frustration is the rejection procedure. Now it appears to me that SW likes to get clean hands here by adding 'Try To Print', a.k.a. 'Don't blame us' feature.
As you see, no designer asks for this and no designer sees benefits from this.
'First To Try' does not explain anything to potential customers. All above mentioned problems are not related to a first try. It has to do about bad communication. This means ADD PHOTOS of your products.
The rejection process of SW has been discussed since ever, and will certainly not stop with this 'Try To Print' label.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE


railNscale 'Een verrijking voor uw miniatuurwereld' railNscale.wordpress.com
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94223 is a reply to message #94221 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 07:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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Now I get it :

1)

A) If something it is printed in RAW BRASS will be enabling by default "Raw Brass, Raw Silver , Polished Brass, Polished Silver , Premium Silver , Gold , Platinum" due the fact that are made by : Printing WAX then CASTING THE WAX , we call this "CAST family"

B) If a model it is printed in white WSF it will enable WSF Black , WSF all polished colors

C) FUD etc got separate family.


2)

A) "First to try" it is a good option , my first client bought one of my product without having a print on it , was a modified version of a print aka "First to try" , and guess what it is needed!

B) Asking to everybody having a picture of a product it is easy to say : When you live in a country with a salary of 3.000 Euro/ 2000 $ , I invite you to live in Romania with a salary of 300 euro / Expenses are 100 euro / food it is 200 euro.

And don`t tell me I have no right to show the world my talent and get a better life ? Even staring something that can give me in long run a decent life that you call living!

3)

A) The 3D render can change to be rendered in the DEFAULT MATERIAL : If someone selected "SIlver" the 3D render (that one you can pan) must be rendered in default material.


I hope Shapeways understand that not all Shapeways designer have a good life , and can afford some things , it is rather a sacrifice a risk to make a dream alive. I hope Shapeways don`t kill the hope and dream.

Money does not equal talent , talent makes more money over time. And it is hard work in the end not something for "free".

So if you argue "I have PHOTOS and low clients due others" , BE MORE CREATIVE , BE COMPETITIVE , SELL YOUR STUFF and TAKE THE BLAME ON YOU.

I could use some HARSH language , but I have to much respect for Shapeways workers and Shapeway staff , that helps me make my dream alive.


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94228 is a reply to message #94221 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 08:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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railNscale wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 05:24


2. The printed object was orientated differently then the shown example. In some materials (WSF, FUD) the outcome of a 'wrongly' orientated model is very different. I know SW wants to joggle around with orientations for cost reasons. But on the other hand, if you really receive many complaints maybe rethink your process.


Not sure if this is really on-topic, nevertheless I do want to reply on your concerns.
Just for your information, we do not get a lot of complaints because of orientation, in matter of fact, I don't recall seeing any for some time.

The complaints we do receive are mostly about damaged parts (nothing to do with orientation)

Quote:


3.The printed model is broken or dirty. We noticed that especailly in the busy time December, quite a number of our customers received broken parts. We also noticed that models are cleaned differently. SW should really work on avoiding these mistakes and work on making more uniform product quality. It is unfortunate that SW service is not always responding to complaints.


We always reply every email we get within 12hours (most of the time even faster).
In case a person does not receive a reply, something went wrong with the email on either side, I do apologize for this if this happened to you, but we do always reply if we receive the email.
As you might recall we actually settled and solved this issue with your emails not arriving at customer service, this has been fixed and did not have anything to do with us maybe not willing to answer :)

I do however agree that our quality should have been better in December.

Quote:


4. The printed FUD models are difficult to paint. Here I would like to see that in SW there is a big overview on how to clean and how to paint models. We have added all this information on our website, and I think it should be at SW's to (not in a forum, but on a dedicated page).



We are currently working on something new, this will remove the oil step in the process and will get you a clean model (so easier to paint).
In addition we are still looking into chemicals, at the moment most of these make the material white.

Although this isn't a problem for 90% of the customers (probably even better), we can't offer it right now as we "communicate" that we are printing some kind of translucent material :)

But yes, we are working on a better way for you to be able to paint your model.

Quote:


-The big problem called rejections.
Probably the biggest frustration is the rejection procedure. Now it appears to me that SW likes to get clean hands here by adding 'Try To Print', a.k.a. 'Don't blame us' feature.
As you see, no designer asks for this and no designer sees benefits from this.
'First To Try' does not explain anything to potential customers. All above mentioned problems are not related to a first try. It has to do about bad communication. This means ADD PHOTOS of your products.
The rejection process of SW has been discussed since ever, and will certainly not stop with this 'Try To Print' label.



See the forum post (caterpillar) for more information, we are working hard to improve this process and have already taken big steps towards this.


Hope this answers a few of your questions.
Mitchell



Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94229 is a reply to message #94228 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 08:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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[quote title=MitchellJetten wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 08:39]
railNscale wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 05:24


(.....)
Quote:


3.The printed model is broken or dirty. We noticed that especailly in the busy time December, quite a number of our customers received broken parts. We also noticed that models are cleaned differently. SW should really work on avoiding these mistakes and work on making more uniform product quality. It is unfortunate that SW service is not always responding to complaints.


We always reply every email we get within 12hours (most of the time even faster).
In case a person does not receive a reply, something went wrong with the email on either side, I do apologize for this if this happened to you, but we do always reply if we receive the email.
As you might recall we actually settled and solved this issue with your emails not arriving at customer service, this has been fixed and did not have anything to do with us maybe not willing to answer :)
(.......)


That's absolutely true. To say another thing is an intentional lie. I wish production team will work only the 10% of rightness that the customer service does.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94231 is a reply to message #94223 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 09:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Quote:

B) If a model it is printed in white WSF it will enable WSF Black , WSF all polished colors

Almost correct I think - white WSF polished can/should enable all other flavours of SF including unpolished, but due to the additional constraints of the polishing process, printing something in unpolished WSF cannot enable anything except the also unpolished black.

Quote:

2) A) "First to try" it is a good option

I remain unconvinced - if anything this should be left to the designer (which would make it basically the same as "Beta"). I believe it would be more helpful if shapeways
A) enforced a policy requiring photorealistic renders to be clearly marked as such
B) added an informative text somewhere in the checkout process (and be it only for new customers or those without own models) explaining how 3d printing is a bit special regarding reproducibility, and delineating what happens in the case of a "rejection". (contacting the designer, getting the money back from store credit)

I strongly believe that shapeways dug that hole for themselves by overzealous marketing, including featuring some models with only a rendered picture available where it is immediately obvious to experienced designers - but not casual customers - that the state shown would barely be achievable through hours of careful sanding, polishing and/or painting. And also not least by changing design rules on the fly, causing sudden rejections of previously successful models. Putting the blame on the designers by putting a big warning on new models is only going to hurt third-party sales - it is bad enough when somebody new to 3d printing, or perhaps completely disinterested in the manufacturing process, happens to hit an unprintable model, but having
many models clearly marked with "looks nice but may not exist" will probably make those people leave the site for good after a quick look around.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94236 is a reply to message #94223 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 09:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar railNscale  is currently offline railNscale
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numarul7 wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 07:16

Now I get it :

1)

A) If something it is printed in RAW BRASS will be enabling by default "Raw Brass, Raw Silver , Polished Brass, Polished Silver , Premium Silver , Gold , Platinum" due the fact that are made by : Printing WAX then CASTING THE WAX , we call this "CAST family"

B) If a model it is printed in white WSF it will enable WSF Black , WSF all polished colors

C) FUD etc got separate family.



There is an issue with this family of materials. We work in FUD and WSF materials mainly. Within the group B and group C materials the material guidelines are different. Polished materials require more wall thickness for example. FUD and their family materials FD and other detail materials have quite different design requirements. So for these families it does not work like that.

numarul7 wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 07:16


2)

A) "First to try" it is a good option , my first client bought one of my product without having a print on it , was a modified version of a print aka "First to try" , and guess what it is needed!

...


You clearly work with different materials with a very different price tag then we do. We have no experience in metals, so we will not comment on this. We make scale models. And the main issue with these tiny scale models is that they tend to be difficult to print and clean. Another thing is that most scale models have to be painted in order to get the desired result. So our customers should be able to clean it and to paint it.
From our perspective selling scale models is not really a way of making money. On the other hand we do not want to loose money either. This means that our invest budget is limited too. I think this is valid for all designers.
Since we do not offer models that are not printed by us, we do limit ourselves already. We could easily design a lot more different models and try selling them. But we don't. The main reason is that we want to be a reliable partner. This is why the rejections policy and also the 'First To Try' feature is not in our interest.

So why do photos make sense for scale models?
Many designers at SW show many brilliant designs with beautiful renders that cannot be printed with the level of detail as shown in the renders. Unfortunately the minimum detail size as stated by SW is not always visible in the end product. Also quite a few designers seem to forget that it is not easy to paint small scale models that are printed as a single piece. We therefore always try to design our models in such way that they provide the best result in reality.

It is good that many of our customers are pretty selective before they purchase anything. However others do pay less attention or did not understand the limitations and buy models that later on do not fullfill their expectations. And it would be harmful if customers become disappointed by 3D printing. That is in nobodies interest.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE



railNscale 'Een verrijking voor uw miniatuurwereld' railNscale.wordpress.com
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94237 is a reply to message #94236 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 09:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar railNscale  is currently offline railNscale
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@Mitchell

It is good that you are looking into a better way of cleaning FUD. The oil is really a true battle for modellers. In time it actually turns an unpainted model yellow.
As you mentioned it would be absolutely no problem if FUD would come white in future. Actually telling the world that FUD is translucent is a bit of a joke. It only is (partially) due to the grease.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE

[Updated on: Fri, 18 July 2014 09:49 UTC]


railNscale 'Een verrijking voor uw miniatuurwereld' railNscale.wordpress.com
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94239 is a reply to message #94237 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 10:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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railNscale wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 09:49

@Mitchell

It is good that you are looking into a better way of cleaning FUD. The oil is really a true battle for modellers. In time it actually turns an unpainted model yellow.
As you mentioned it would be absolutely no problem if FUD would come white in future. Actually telling the world that FUD is translucent is a bit of a joke. It only is (partially) due to the grease.

Regards,
Maurice
RAILNSCALE


And the grease (wax) turns in a sickly yellowish shade very soon, that makes FUD useless for canopy or train glasses.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94240 is a reply to message #94237 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 10:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar numarul7  is currently offline numarul7
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@railNscale

I agree that scale models look different from "painting" and product as shipped from Shapeways and things tend to crack in the package compared to metals.

So photos with painted , and unpainted products must be there like an example of finished product painted so client to have a clue.

And I agree that it is better to have a white material that it is CLEAN and easy PAINTABLE , rather having to ship to client something with oil and client having only experience of painting -> aka kids age 12 ? That does not have the right to use solvents due health risk! Or ASTHMA!


numarul7 jewelry and design
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94242 is a reply to message #94239 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 10:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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HOLDEN8702 wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 10:01

railNscale wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 09:49


Actually telling the world that FUD is translucent is a bit of a joke. It only is (partially) due to the grease.

And the grease (wax) turns in a sickly yellowish shade very soon, that makes FUD useless for canopy or train glasses.


The grease/wax/oil cannot change the transparency of the bulk material, so if FUD is somewhat transparent with the stuff still on, this must be due to it filling microscopic bumps and scratches that would otherwise scatter the light. So it should be possible to restore the transparency by coating the cleaned model with some other clear, non-aging substance that does not attack the acrylic. There is bound to be something about this hidden somewhere in the Post Processing Techniques forum (guess cleaning with dishwashing liquid and thinly coating with clear acrylic paint might work).
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94245 is a reply to message #94242 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 11:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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Hey guys,

Let's stop the FUD discussion in this topic :) I'll be happy to help you out with FUD questions in a different topic!

Mitch


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94275 is a reply to message #94245 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 16:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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@Mitchell: I started a new thread here for discussing FUD

@railNscale: I realize that I'm very much in a niche environment, but I have a set of patrons that actually COMPETE to see who can be "First To Try" my models. <GRIN> It's a bit of a badge of honor with them to be the first to buy.

I had a thought on this subject and wanted to toss it out here for discussion: What if, in addition to "First To Try" (which does mean "Never Printed Before")... what if we had a Overall Designer Success Ratio? On Ebay, there is a Seller and a Buyer Ranking. Note: I am not proposing a rating based upon opinion, but rather upon hard facts.

I am not bragging, but I can (and often do) build models that are successful on the first print. My established customers understand what they are buying and can generally trust that some new item I design is going to work, even though I have never bought the item myself. That has come only from what is now five years of trial and error. The good news is that it has been many more successful trials than errors. (I will fully admit, there have been some whoppers of failure however. If you upload a model designed in millimeters and manage to pick "inches", you end up with this price point)

What if ... the aggregate "Success Ratio" across all models/materials a designer is offering for sale was presented next the "First To Try" button - establishing a Rating of the designer's overall success, thereby expressing the general amount of confidence that a (new) buyer can have that a FTT model will work, versus some designer that (no offense meant) is just starting out?

[Updated on: Fri, 18 July 2014 16:07 UTC]


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94289 is a reply to message #94275 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 17:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar wgseligman  is currently offline wgseligman
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The "success ratio" is not a bad idea, but I'd want it _instead of_ the first to try button.

Unlike the FUD designers who've contributed to this topic, my target market will be people who've never heard of consumer-level 3D printing before. Traditionally they've purchased hand-made jewelry. The attractiveness of 3D printing comes from the choices I can offer: choice of materials, choice of ring size, choice of design. "First to Try" will scare them off.

Frankly, this change disheartens me. I've spent hundreds on raw brass/bronze test prints in order to take photos for the shop. So far, I've made less than $30 in sales. There's no way I can afford to do prints in silver. My next step was to consider spending money on marketing (FB promotions and the like).

If "First to Try" gets placed next to the materials I think might be otherwise most attractive to the customers, I might as well forget about marketing and close up the shop.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94290 is a reply to message #94275 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 17:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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While there seems to be a lot of bashing about this new "First toTry" feature - including from me regarding the orientation issue - I do for the most part applaud Shapeways for implementing this. I think the renders will actually increase sales because they give a customer an "idea" of what it will look like. This helps we shop owners because it doesn't become necessary to buy as many models to take pictures of. And for any of the complainers out there who HAVE purchased a lot of models in different materials you are still at an advantage because you can still show ACTUAL prints which will always outdo renders any day.

I don't think that being 'the first to try' will put off as many customers as it will increase others to make the purchase. Under the present system we might have one model that we purchased along with the grey render and that's it. I just can't see that the old system is better than the new. Also, it's not like the customer is going to lose money if the material they choose is unprintable; they simply end up a little disappointed - but at least there won't be a barrage of complaints because now the customer has been WARNED the print may not work. For some this could be a plus, because they can brag to their friends that they are "the only person in the world to have one of these" if they are the 'first to try'.

So, while I'm all for letting Shapeways know what we think they may be doing wrong I think they don't get fair credit for all that they are trying to accomplish.

And at least they LISTEN. How many "faceless corporations" have you become pissed off at over the years because you "can't talk to a real human" or "no-one listens to me!"


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94292 is a reply to message #94076 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 18:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HenrikRydberg  is currently offline HenrikRydberg
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One can see how hard this problem is just by reading through the contradicting suggestions & opinions in this thread. After months and months of work I believe we have a solution with renders + beta + first to print. We really needed to deliver multiple stabs at once to kill this three headed beast that is "keeping freedom of creativity, setting expectations (with rejections) while growing sales"

Learning from our previous releases, we wanted to familiarise you on the upcoming changes, before they happen. The questions and concerns that you've voiced here is what's supposed to be happening—so thank you. Sorry for lacking the info on Guideline Families. (You've seen us change the way we rollout changes. You bet we'll continue to learn from this too.)

Another thing I want to make 100% clear: when you order your own products, you're the "first to try", and so the product will graduate (in all it's Guideline Family materials) if printability is there.. So if you're a shop owner who orders (and photographs) your products, shoppers won't see "first to try" options in your shop. But when the creativity strikes and you do experimental products or add new materials, First to try kicks in—and rightly so.

Like in [B]railNscale[B]'s shop ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/rail-n-scale ) you see carefully painted products and in amazing sceneries, plus all the parts you get when you order. Looking at the pictures it's clear what one gets and the material selector follows suit. It's actually really hard to find First to try option in this shop. (It happens in sets and we'll have another solution for that later) (screenshot attached)

In FabMeJewelry's shop ( https://www.shapeways.com/shops/FabMe ) you see amazing shiny jewelry worn by models and carefully composed for photos. They also provide cheaper plastic versions of many, but you don't really see photos of these. Shoppers are turned to the high value jewelry, where there's maybe better markups. However if a customer want's to go with a cheaper secondary option, they have the opportunity to do so. (screenshot attached)


What I really wanted to talk to you about, was why we went with "First to try".

1. Communicating intent and expectations, instead of technology.
I'm with you, that shoppers don't care about 3D printing and talking about a manufacturing methods will only confuse them. That's why we didn't go with "First to 3D print". The product page doesn't talk anything about manufacturing methods. If you think it brings value to your shoppers, you'll have the freedom to do so.

2. Putting a positive label on the experimental option, except highlighting our default expectations.
Imagine a store that has two blenders. The first blender has a label "This works". Umm... so then does the second one work? To go around this kind of doubt, we wanted to put a positive connotation on the experimental option instead of highlighting the option that works as we expect. Because when we buy something, the default expectation is that it works.

With "first" (get it first, be first, you're first! ...) we wanted to latch on a shopping behavior familiar from pre-ordering. We see "the all new", "world premier", "first release" in all service and product categories. They all aim, and successfully put a positive light on a thing that we can't get outside validation yet.

3. Your skill and reputation set the stage.
The consistency we see in railNscale's and FabMeJewelry's shops make every product in the shop seem high quality and trusting on a product is easy. In fact, it'd be an honor to be first to get one of those. Think of books. It's easy for us to pre-order the newest Harry Potter book, because we trust the book series. Remember how people queued over night to book stores just to get their book first? The book might've been a disappointment, but hey... they were first to get it.

Reputation in your niche sets the stage also. I've pre-ordered books from first time authors because I know them from a professional circles and trust that what they write will be worth while. Even when it turned out not be world-class writing, I've been happy to have supported them regardless. Other times the words on a "cover jacket" have been convincing enough for me to take the jump.

So if you know your shit or are big in a niche, all the reputation and know-how you have there will follow you to the product. Being first becomes exclusivity for your audience.

4. Setting the expectation is important and the make-or-break factor for us all of our success.
We believe in creative freedom and want to open as many doors to technology as possible. That's why we don't require you to buy your own products before offering them for sale. We also would hate to make you wait for us to validate your creation before the world would see it. Still, we need to set the stage for realities: we only know how product will turn out when it's made.

Anything we purchase, we expect to work. Events that break from this expectation are negative. However, when I've chosen to be a first to follow an uncharted path and then learn that I have to wait for a fix because "the world hasn't tried this before and now we know better. Let's fix it!" it's easy for me to understand and adjust to the situation. After all...

5. You get exclusivity from being First to try.
You'll get access to specific comment area, you get highlighted and your profile extends to show the you're a person who's first to try and beta supporter. All positive stamps to make it worth while for you.

6. Sweet renders offset the uncertainty of "being first".
It was paramount for us to launch Material Renders hand in hand with First to try and beta products. We understand that the added communication will create doubt, and we want to balance the uncertainty with beautiful pictures of your products.

--------

Behind all of these efforts, is of course the aim of increasing sales for every Shop Owner. We believe that healthy long term growth comes from trust; when shoppers understand what they're paying for and getting into. We want your customers to come back, connect with you, give feedback, post photos, trust and become part of your community. We want to provide tools that work for all the different niches and shop owners. And I believe the tools adapt well to all the different ways you run your shops, delivering positive incentives for people to become part of what you do.

Sorry that this got long (again)

[Updated on: Fri, 18 July 2014 20:56 UTC] by Moderator


Hey I'm Henrik, Shapeways Director of User Experience.
Re: Sneak Peek into new ways to design products on Shapeways: First To Try & Beta Products [message #94298 is a reply to message #94292 ] Fri, 18 July 2014 19:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar wgseligman  is currently offline wgseligman
Messages: 42
Registered: July 2013
Go to my shop
Member
From my other topic, which was I asked to move here:

HenrikRydberg wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 19:08

wgseligman: I (and everyone from product and marketing teams) enjoyed reading your blog post http://wgseligman.livejournal.com/85238.html on dropping plastic offering. In the post you also described a wish to ask someone to order and photograph the product for you. In its randomness, it was a positive sign that were on the right track with Beta product. With that you'll be able to do exactly that: ask for support like that!


Although I expressed that wish, the reality of my market means that it won't happen. I fulfilled an order for one of my rings, asked (via Shapeways messaging feature) for the customer to send me a photo... and heard nothing.

There are many different markets for the many shops on Shapeways. Some, like those of the model builders, appear to thrive on being first and are enthusiastic about participating in Betas. I think the market for my product (Wiccan/pagan jewelry) is very conservative in its purchasing habits; traditionally it's a group that has less disposable income, and is therefore careful about spending money. Offering Beta purchases would be a waste of my time for my market; no one will try it.

For such a market, anything that's visually confusing or appears to be a warning will probably discourage a purchase. That's why I sound so negative in my reaction to "First to Try" icon and the multitude of uncaptioned renders.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'd be delighted to be wrong. If I am, I will fulsomely apologize and bow three times in your general direction. Here's hoping that I do lots of bowing!

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