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Rapid? [message #85937] Fri, 07 March 2014 16:49 UTC Go to next message
avatar feklee  is currently offline feklee
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My order, placed more than 48h ago, is still in state processing. Going through several design iterations will require lots of patience. I thought it's called rapid prototyping...

How about an express option?
Re: Rapid? [message #85938 is a reply to message #85937 ] Fri, 07 March 2014 17:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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Part of mine, three days ago.

This is nonsense: there's models that were been rejected one week after being ordered.

Has Anybody else noted that if there's a multi-models combined order, the easiest to check go into production in less than one day and the rest remains "processing" for days and days?
Re: Rapid? [message #85942 is a reply to message #85938 ] Fri, 07 March 2014 18:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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HOLDEN8702 wrote on Fri, 07 March 2014 17:09

There are models that were been rejected one week after being ordered.

While frustrating for my development cycle, I have never viewed this as a huge problem. There is a queue of items to be checked and then printed. If the checking is done as part of the batch assembly process, then it makes sense that models would sit in queue until ready to be printed.

I can support the desire to have models checked as soon as possible, but I can also imagine that Shapeways will have to change several things in their workflow to accommodate the extra status tracking required to check a model before it is placed in the queue waiting for a printer. There's also the general issue of the condition where checking is done as an integral part of the batch assembly process. Splitting that into two separate actions may require more labor, therefore extra expense.

HOLDEN8702 wrote on Fri, 07 March 2014 17:09

... the easiest [items] to check go into production in less than one day and the rest remains "processing" for days and days?


There again.. I don't see this by itself as a problem.. as long they meet the Expected Ship Date, then the sequence of what gets processed when is irrelevant. Agreed, it's a bit of an issue IF a model is rejected. With PIA and the "second opinion" that they've talked about recently.. they are making progress on this subject.

Actually, taking extra days could be a good thing.. that (could) mean your item wasn't rejected offhand, and is being reviewed by a second pair of eyes.

====
Years ago, I got in a bit of trouble for telling a boss "A watched pot never boils". We were watching online orders come in real time, and I was trying to express that the sales were going slow. He thought I was saying "get out of my computer room" and stormed out... oops.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Rapid? [message #85949 is a reply to message #85942 ] Fri, 07 March 2014 18:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar feklee  is currently offline feklee
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stonysmith wrote on Fri, 07 March 2014 18:00

With PIA and the "second opinion" that they've talked about recently.. they are making progress on this subject.

Does selecting PIA (Print It Anyway) speed up the whole process?
Re: Rapid? [message #85952 is a reply to message #85949 ] Fri, 07 March 2014 19:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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feklee wrote on Fri, 07 March 2014 18:51

Does selecting PIA (Print It Anyway) speed up the whole process?

According to the release note, no. Your model goes thru the standard process and queuing the same as everyone else, and the checkers are blind to whether you selected PIA or not. It's only after (or IF) they reject it that it is pushed back into the queue.

Shapeways is getting something out of PIA also.. The extra tracking gives them (internally) the statistics that they need to restructure their end-to-end processing.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Rapid? [message #85975 is a reply to message #85952 ] Sat, 08 March 2014 11:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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note on PIA:

Your model will still follow the normal process.
The good news is that customers will receive 2 types of additional information when the model is being shipped:

- your model passed the checking process / your model would normally have been rejected on this reason "......"
- after printing we noticed the following issue "...." (few examples, printing went fine, but it broke during polishing or broke during cleaning)


I remember I had a look at both your orders, and I'm not sure which of you 2 ordered a long WSF piece.
Unfortunately the piece can only be printed in a P3 and P7 machine (the bigger printers).
As those machines take up to 50 hours to print, it sometimes takes some more time for the model to be able to get a spot in the tray.

While as for the P1 machines (the smaller WSF printers) we have many of them, so getting a spot in the printer tray is happening a lot faster.

Cheers,
mitchell


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Rapid? [message #85976 is a reply to message #85975 ] Sat, 08 March 2014 12:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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MitchellJetten wrote on Sat, 08 March 2014 11:54

...I remember I had a look at both your orders, and I'm not sure which of you 2 ordered a long WSF piece.
Unfortunately the piece can only be printed in a P3 and P7 machine (the bigger printers).
As those machines take up to 50 hours to print, it sometimes takes some more time for the model to be able to get a spot in the tray.

While as for the P1 machines (the smaller WSF printers) we have many of them, so getting a spot in the printer tray is happening a lot faster...l


Well, I suppose you are talking about my long barb wire models. But they are in production, but his sister model in full color sadstone is under the engineer table yet.

Thanks for trying to explain something unexplicable, size matters, but in this case this isn't the reason.

Regards

Luis

index.php?t=getfile&id=53893&private=0

Re: Rapid? [message #85977 is a reply to message #85976 ] Sat, 08 March 2014 13:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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In that case it wasn't you :-)

So i've had a look at your FCS model, not sure what happened but it was on "ready to plan" for a few days at the checking team and not at the production teams.
I'll have to figure out with the production teams why it was in this state without being moved forward.
But hey, It's weekend, I'm not in the office ;)

I've done some magic and assigned the model to the production team in The Netherlands and will make sure that it will start printing on Monday.
Note that this material only takes about 48 hours from printing to "ready to ship" (so including cleaning and post processing), this means it will still be ready before end of the week (probably ready to be shipped on Wednesday or Thursday).

In short: we will still ship your order before the original estimated shipping date of the 20th ;)
Then again, no guarantees :) something can always go wrong and reprints might have to be made.

Cheers,
Mitchell


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Rapid? [message #85996 is a reply to message #85975 ] Sun, 09 March 2014 09:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar feklee  is currently offline feklee
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MitchellJetten wrote on Sat, 08 March 2014 11:54

note on PIA: Your model will still follow the normal process.

Perhaps it would be interesting to have an option: "Print without checking" (if that really speeds up things). Some users, not me, may have the experience to do the printability check themselves. It would be interesting to have as much information about the machines as possible. With model numbers it could be possible to find instructions on web sites of machine manufacturers such as 3D Systems. I understand that this is contrary to Shapeway's mission of making 3D printing as easy as possible, but not all users are the same. In fact, what I like about Shapeways, in contrast to some competitors I have checked, is the wealth of information that already exists on the site.

Quote:

I remember I had a look at both your orders, and I'm not sure which of you 2 ordered a long WSF piece.

That must be me.

Quote:

Unfortunately the piece can only be printed in a P3 and P7 machine (the bigger printers).
As those machines take up to 50 hours to print, it sometimes takes some more time for the model to be able to get a spot in the tray.

Thanks for the explanation! Consider adding it on the web site. However, I still wonder why the model was in state "processing" for two / three days. I doubt that it takes that long to check a model. Perhaps you leave it in state "processing" while waiting for a spot, so that the user can still cancel the order. This is good, of course, but it would be nice to have more detailed information.
Re: Rapid? [message #86086 is a reply to message #85975 ] Tue, 11 March 2014 18:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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MitchellJetten wrote on Sat, 08 March 2014 11:54

note on PIA:

Your model will still follow the normal process.
The good news is that customers will receive 2 types of additional information when the model is being shipped:

- your model passed the checking process / your model would normally have been rejected on this reason "......"
- after printing we noticed the following issue "...." (few examples, printing went fine, but it broke during polishing or broke during cleaning)

*snip*

Cheers,
mitchell


Upshot is we get to pay for feedback that should be clearly and consisely reported anyway in the event of a model print rejection. (where'd the roll eyes smiley go?)

@feklee
3D printing is often called rapid prototyping
Shapeways are a print service that aims to democratize manufacturing
Rapid prototyping and Shapeways' service differ in that one costs a lot more than the other.

Paul


Re: Rapid? [message #86087 is a reply to message #86086 ] Tue, 11 March 2014 19:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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WSF is listed at 6 business days. Go ask an injection molder for a prototype and 6 days will feel very rapid. That and $1.40 per cc will seem like a steal. There are next day services out there, but you won't be paying close to $1.40 per cc.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Rapid? [message #86091 is a reply to message #85937 ] Tue, 11 March 2014 19:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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psst... Mike... 3DP is no comparison to injection moulding.
Asides from the computer 3D model file, every other aspect is different, from CNC all the way through to the final stainless steel mould (good for maybe 100k or more copies) is different. The manufacturing process for the final item is different too.

Please don't compare apples to avocado-gum-drop-fruits (where's the cheeky winky-you-know-I'm-just-ribbing smiley face gone?)

Paul
Re: Rapid? [message #86092 is a reply to message #85937 ] Tue, 11 March 2014 19:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Paul, for years rapid prototyping has been for producing prototypes for the injection molding and many other manufacturing fields that the only other method was even pricier prototype molds with longer wait times, hence rapid prototyping (as referred to in the original post).

Here we do prototyping, that may not be the most rapid, but still pretty quick. But our main product isn't prototypes but 3D printed products.

Emoticons disappeared a while ago, I never heard why :'(


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com
Re: Rapid? [message #86095 is a reply to message #86092 ] Tue, 11 March 2014 20:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Yep, thats like comparing apples to a rather tasty apfel schnapps - the apples are the beginning of the process, schnapps is the end result http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_wink.gif

The emoticons are still there.
Smile: http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_smil e.gif http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_smile.gif
Twisted: http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_twis ted.gif  http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_twisted.gif
Wink: http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_wink .gif http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_wink.gif
Big Grin: http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_bigg rin.gif http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif

Paul
Re: Rapid? [message #86128 is a reply to message #86095 ] Wed, 12 March 2014 13:01 UTC Go to previous message
avatar feklee  is currently offline feklee
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Now everything went very fast, and the model shipped today, way ahead of time. http://www.shapeways.com/forum/images/smiley_icons/icon_smile.gif

 
   
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