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Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85498] Thu, 27 February 2014 02:40 UTC Go to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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IT'S HERE!!
I am beyond thrilled to announce this:

"Print it Anyway!" We've heard this cry from you more than once, so, here it is...

Going from prototype to product often requires iteration, and in some cases, a level of experimentation beyond the safe boundaries of the Shapeways Design Guidelines. To help you explore the possibilities, we are piloting a new way for you to bring your products to life: Print It Anyway. You're no longer bound to the Shapeways Design Guidelines, only the rules of physics.

So this means you can test your wires, your details, your interlocking parts & your compression fits to failing point to give you the ability to learn from your mistakes. We hope this will help you push the boundaries, and help us push ours.

Read all the details in the Print It Anyway Pilot page like:
- Currently available only for your own models
- Materials available are Strong & Flexible Plastics, FUD and Full Color Sandstone.
- We'll give you all the feedback we collect along the way, like if your model passes our checks, but then breaks in post processing
-And much more!

Then just click the "Print it Anyway" box at checkout...and wait to get your print!

http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q575/nataliak8888/ScreenShot2014-02-26at94125PM.png

Because this is a pilot program, we're looking for feedback and ways to continuously improve to best meet your needs.
So please post your feedback in this thread or drop us a line at community@shapeways.com.

Let the experimentation begin!
Natalia & the WHOLE TEAM.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 03:13 UTC]


Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85504 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 05:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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That's amazing to the designers that we have always been activate the label "Reject Anyway!".
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85509 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 08:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Next question

If we use print it anyway on a design that does not meet the design criteria and it prints OK and without production problems, does this set a flag that means customers can order it without it being rejected ?


Tom
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85513 is a reply to message #85509 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 10:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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Hey Tom,

Check the page Natalia linked to :-)

==
I'm a Shop Owner. If my model prints successfully through Print It Anyway, can I put it in my shop?
We don't recommend selling products that were printed through Print It Anyway until they've successfully been printed through the normal ordering process. The goal of Print It Anyway is to help you iterate your design until you have a model that can print perfectly every time.

Because your customers will not be able to use Print It Anyway, using the normal process to purchase your model will help you verify that it's ready to be sold.
==

Mitch :)


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85514 is a reply to message #85513 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 11:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Yes I read that.

My point was, we make our wonderful object that does not adhere to material Design guidelines, run it through PIA, prove we can print it OK.

We then submit it as a normal print without PIA, the first thing that's going to happen is it will be rejected as not being according to material guidelines.( well there is about a 50% chance of this from my experience)

So unless there was some sort of flag set, I assume we would still not be able to print it anyway as a normal, sellable item , which makes me ask what's the point other than to satisfy one's own curiosity?

Or is it a case we are going to have to argue with customer services each time, which seems not a good use of their or our time.

Tom
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85515 is a reply to message #85514 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 12:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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Hi Tom,

Quote:

which makes me ask what's the point other than to satisfy one's own curiosity?


This is the only reason right now ;)
Unfortunately right now it will not get any Printed Before Flag when using PIA, even if the model prints fine.

Arguing will CS not work when using PIA, i'm sorry!

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 14:16 UTC] by Moderator


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85517 is a reply to message #85515 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 12:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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So it's not a gateway to having dubious items printed on a commercial basis, just that we can prove to ourselves that they would work if only Shapeways would allow it.

It's just I wasn't clear in my mind what it was.

It is useful anyway.

Though I suppose there is nothing to stop us buying them ourselves and re-selling.

I wasn't talking about complaining to CS about PIA items, rather than using a successful PIA print to beat them about the head with(metaphorically) when they say something is not printable.

Tom
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85518 is a reply to message #85517 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 12:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Even if you print things without this flag, photo them and put them in your shop, there is a good chance that the next time they are printed they will not match the first print.

In my experience...
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85521 is a reply to message #85517 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 14:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bdickason  is currently offline bdickason
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tebee wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 12:52

So it's not a gateway to having dubious items printed on a commercial basis, just that we can prove to ourselves that they would work if only Shapeways would allow it.


This is absolutely the long term goal of the Print it Anyway program (we want to print EVERYTHING that's manufacturable) but we're not quite ready to make that leap.

This is basically a pilot program for designers. Once we see what kind of models make it through, how often they can be manufactured reliably, we can either adjust our design guidelines or find a way to let a product 'graduate' from Print it Anyway to fully available.

Today, however, we're going to start gathering data and see how you all use the system so we can figure out the best way to make the above possible :)

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 14:53 UTC]


Director of Product - Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85522 is a reply to message #85521 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 15:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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bdickason wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 14:52

(we want to print EVERYTHING that's manufacturable)


I've only a year of 3d printing experience, but all kind of rejections ,including rejections of before ok printed models, tells me another different tale.
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85524 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 15:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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great! [/sarcasm]

Why?

I had a whole lot of grief from Shapeways over some OO scale phone boxes that where printed then subsequently rejected.
Shapeways then promoted the phone boxes (along with one being featured in Hornby magazine) this caused so much hassle I practically gave up with Shapeways even after adjusting the models so that they should have been preintable... and now this revelation. :-(

Paul


Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85526 is a reply to message #85522 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 15:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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HOLDEN8702 wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 15:03

bdickason wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 14:52

(we want to print EVERYTHING that's manufacturable)


I've only a year of 3d printing experience, but all kind of rejections ,including rejections of before ok printed models, tells me another different tale.



In just the last few months we've released the wall thickness visualizer and now Print it Anyway, with even more coming. This should tell you that we want to improve. Part of improving is showing you what's wrong before you order. Part of improving is you telling us to print it anyway and maybe we'll learn something that can be done.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85529 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 15:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Hey guys,

A few answers:

Paul - because of exactly this! We know this has been an issue for some time, and this is the best way we can help you learn and us learn.

Tom- to reiterate what Brad said, we're trying to get to a place where we KNOW a product will always print successfully, rather than the place we're at, where we estimate probabilities.

The 3D printing process is not binary - just because a machine printed one thing successfully one time, does NOT guarantee that it will again. It's more a question of probability. (And this explains those infuriating printed-before rejections). We may ship you a successful print, but what you don;t know is that we tried to print it 4 times before it was successful. When you order it again, it has a 1/4 chance of being printed.

Now with this program, we together get to test our machines and process to see where the real line of "printability" is. So if you get a successful PIA print, by putting it through the regular process, you get TWO data points about it's success, and a better likelihood that when you put it for sale and a customer orders it, they get a successful print too.

As Brad said, this pilot program is about information, both for you in helping you design a good product, and for us in what can be printed repeatedly.

Please keep the questions coming, as always, we're in this together so we really value your input in making our process better!

Natalia



Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85533 is a reply to message #85529 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 16:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Natalia,

All along, I've been asking for clear and open communication about models.
All along, models have been printed without any reported problems.

And now this PIA, print it anyway or pain in a** - your choice of TLA* ;)

IMO this is maybe two years too late... yep, adapt to survive and all that but running around in circles like a headless chicken is not adapting and stresses survivability.

Paul




* TLA = Three Letter Acronym
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85539 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 16:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Paul, I appreciate your candor, always, and you have been here long enough to see just how much we have improved, and how much of it has been as a direct result of input from people like you.

;-)

Print it Anyway is exactly about providing more communication about your models. I'd love for you to try it, and tell us what you think, so we can keep continually improving!

Best,
Natalia


Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85541 is a reply to message #85539 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 16:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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I too, think Shapeways is slowly improving, which must be hard at the same time as expanding.

Things like this are maybe not all we want just yet, but they are steps on the right road.

And I am so glad we will finally get detailed feedback about the problems that occurred producing the model - but this still should have been something done years ago for all models - I assume this is the intention in the future?


Tom
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85545 is a reply to message #85539 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 17:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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To be frank, which I usually am, three years ago, try to 'print it anyway' was the norm. If a model failed there was more often than not a fairly good explanation as to why the model failed. Shapeways expanded, failure emails became seemingly automated with unclear details, sometimes a model would go through & print ok, other times not, reasonable discussions as to why the model failed ended up in lengthy email exchanges. Occasionally Shapeways (great) team did their best and the model subsequently printed ok.

However, 'print it anyway' seems to me like taking a step back three years, which might be a good thing, but once bitten, I'm twice shy.

Paul


Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85556 is a reply to message #85545 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 17:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar railNscale  is currently offline railNscale
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Hello,

Reading the consequences of the Print-It-Anyway options, I will not choose for this option.

It appears to increase the amount of discussions and certainly doesn't help preventing the rather annoying rejection procedure.



Maurice


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Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85565 is a reply to message #85556 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 18:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Brian123  is currently offline Brian123
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Even with a model that meets guidelines, passes inspection and approved for printing, there can still be unexpected issues. In the situations, receiving a refund or credit has been a big peace of mind.

So with PIA...

1: If the model doesn't meet quality standards, such as print layering issues, color issues, not fully cleaned, and other machine/handling related issues, will those situations still get a refund or credit as they were not the result of the model?

2: Is the price the same despite added risk? I figure Shapeway's pricing structure has been designed to handle reprints or refunds on failed models that were initially approved. If PIA lacks that support, will there be any kind of a discount since you are essentially waiving the right to a refund or credit if your model as issues during printing? Or maybe a discount on printing the next iteration of the same model through PIA after fixing an issue?

3: I assume if the model breaks, it will still be fully cleaned and prepared just as if it didn't break, then shipped. Not like production on it stops in its tracks at the first sign of an issue and shipped not fully processed? Like if a character's arm breaks off, will both pieces still be cleaned, finished and shipped, and let the buyer decide how to repair?

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 19:02 UTC]

Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85566 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 19:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MrNib  is currently offline MrNib
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In one sense this might benefit me. I've been holding off on submitting some flat designs with random surface noise that I assumed would be rejected for small features and/or engraving/embossing violations.

On the other hand, since the part orientation is another unknown factor the parts could have variable print results depending on the tray orientation. Perhaps the fix is to map the features to a cube or a sphere to gauge orthogonal effects. Math!
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85567 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 20:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Brian123, great questions!

To answer:

1. Good question - the idea with PIA is that you accept the possibility of an imperfect model in exchange for extra information . When you ask about print layering issues or color issues - do you mean as determined by us ...or by you after you receive your model? It's a good question and one worth exploring more.

2. About the price: Yes the price is the same, the risk you take is by forfeiting your refund. Also, this is an interesting question because traditionally we have assumed this price risk (in having to reprint a model 4 times before we got a successful one). With your idea about a discount for iteration...that's a great suggestion! Duly noted!

3. Yes, we put your model through the entire production process, so even if it breaks we will continue cleaning and packing it as normal, we'll just also include feedback about where in the process it broke and why. Your order goes through the same steps that all regular orders go through and will be handled with the same care. In rare cases with polished or dyed materials, you may receive a product that hasn't gone through polishing or dyeing because it wouldn't have survived these processes. To enable you to learn and improve your design, you'll receive your product in the most complete state possible.

Best,
Natalia

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 20:19 UTC]


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Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85568 is a reply to message #85566 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 20:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Hi all,

thanks for your feedback as always! And also thanks Paul, Tom, and others, for your patience hanging in there with us for all this time.

We are really excited to offer the Print it Anyway feature, because it offers us a way for you to indicate what you want at scale.

Yes it is true, 3 years ago it was easier to get feedback on your model, how to improve and make it printable. Over those years
the amount of models we are assessing and printing has gone up by amazing amounts. We were looking at less than 10,000 models a month
3 years ago vs over 100,000 today. This is 200 models a day vs over 2,000 a day. As a result the team has grown and we now have multiple people in 2 factories checking the models. We also offer post production services like polishing and dying, which add complexity to the manufacturing. To make the not-exact process of predicting whether we can reliably manufacture a product completely reproducible is HARD. Especially since we can't simply try a few times. Remember most products are all different. Also to keep the costs reasonable, which has always been our focus, it was also hard to have conversations around all parts we were "rejecting". As a result the experience suffered and to be clear we do not like that.

Print it Anyway is another step we are taking after Wall Thickness Visualization and improvements in the checking process and others yet to come to improve the experience for you, and scale at the same time, keeping cost in mind.

We definitely want to figure out how to get you all the models you want and communicate clearly when we can't and why. You have our commitment we are working on just that. Your feedback is helping us to get there. Thank you for that.

Pete
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85569 is a reply to message #85567 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 21:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Brian123  is currently offline Brian123
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natalia wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 20:08

Brian123, great questions!

To answer:

1. Good question - the idea with PIA is that you accept the possibility of an imperfect model in exchange for extra information . When you ask about print layering issues or color issues - do you mean as determined by us ...or by you after you receive your model? It's a good question and one worth exploring more.

2. About the price: Yes the price is the same, the risk you take is by forfeiting your refund. Also, this is an interesting question because traditionally we have assumed this price risk (in having to reprint a model 4 times before we got a successful one). With your idea about a discount for iteration...that's a great suggestion! Duly noted!

3. Yes, we put your model through the entire production process, so even if it breaks we will continue cleaning and packing it as normal, we'll just also include feedback about where in the process it broke and why. Your order goes through the same steps that all regular orders go through and will be handled with the same care. In rare cases with polished or dyed materials, you may receive a product that hasn't gone through polishing or dyeing because it wouldn't have survived these processes. To enable you to learn and improve your design, you'll receive your product in the most complete state possible.

Best,
Natalia


Thank you for your answers, I will be interesting to see how this program and future ones develop.

Expanding on Question 1

I mostly print FCS, and often there are some quality issues that make it past inspection and shipped to me or a customer. So I'm worried these issues will still get through with PIA and void the usual reprint or credit. Maybe as part of the added communication when using PIA, clear photos can be taken and shared before shipping the model, or always flag for better inspection

1: Badly calibrated layers
A friend ordered 5 copies of this model at the same time, all packaged very differently (different sources?), and one was clearly below the quality of the others, showing badly aligned layers. Not a problem with the model, but was approved and shipped to the customer. Shapeways reprinted it.

index.php?t=getfile&id=53244&private=0


2: Non Uniform Color

Below is a recent mild case from a customer who ordered this cat model. One side the color is more vivid than the other, making it too green and uneven. I had a similar issue in the past where the color slowly turned B&W on one side. My print was approved for a reprint, while my customer was told they had no control over this and was not issued a refund. This seems like an issue with printer maintenance, like a clogged line with the colors or print head. That being said, this issue was not as noticeable as mine that turned black and white. The customer did not receive a print at the same quality with uniform color that I featured in my store and examples shown below next to her print. Color can vary in richness, which is acceptable to an extent, but it should be uniform and not noticeably change across the model. So I was disappointed she did not get a refund.

Again, this is a mild case compared to B&W, but the same non the less
index.php?t=getfile&id=53246&private=0


3: Support material removed and fused with model

Here is one example where some support material wasn't removed before fusing with glue. Looking between the two front legs, there's lump of support material fused into the model. It was possible overlooked because it was white on white, but not a problem with the design and would of been bad if over a different color.

On a recent print of the Lemur character, as seen in example 1 above. There was an obvious thin layer of white stuff fused on the tip of the black nose. Luckily it was easy to get to and thin enough to carefully rub and scratch away for a perfect print, but was nerve racking. With this example below, you can't do that

index.php?t=getfile&id=53245&private=0


So those are all some kind of problem caused by a printer issue or cleaning issue, but still made it to me or the customer. If I used PIA with any of those, would I have been out of luck? These are just a few examples I had to show off hand, but you are making a risky print that survives the process, you hope it will not have secondary issues like these.

[Updated on: Thu, 27 February 2014 21:36 UTC]

Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85573 is a reply to message #85569 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 22:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Vidalcris  is currently offline Vidalcris
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Is this something cool ? maybe ... ;)
For sure i will never use this option :p


Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85575 is a reply to message #85568 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 22:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Hi Pete,

Thanks for your input.
I'll go back to my OO scale phone boxes as an example.
First off, they printed and were delivered just fine in FUD, no issues or reported problems.
Then when the model 'got popular', too thin, can get damaged in cleaning, can get damaged during transit rejections started occuring.
So yep, increasing business 10 fold can cause a rush and maybe standards of care for our models dropped which could explain the reasoning behind the rejections... however to me that is an undocumented change in business practice, i.e. 'wow, we got busy, and we've got less time, lets rush... Oh that got damaged because we rushed the cleanup or stuffed it in the wrong sized bag too vigorously', so the model subsequently gets marked for rejection in the future.

This then leads me to the question, how will PIA change possible damage due to rough handling after printing?

Personally I would like to get my hands on a ProJet 3500 & associated cleaning kit, to find out how the process works out if models are treated with care & respect.

Cheers,
Paul


Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85579 is a reply to message #85498 ] Thu, 27 February 2014 23:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MrNib  is currently offline MrNib
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Also how about adding alumide to the list?
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85582 is a reply to message #85498 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 00:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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MrNib - alumide is included ;-)

All Strong & Flexible Plastics and Finishes, including Alumide

Test away!


Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85586 is a reply to message #85575 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 07:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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stop4stuff wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 22:27


Personally I would like to get my hands on a ProJet 3500 & associated cleaning kit, to find out how the process works out if models are treated with care & respect.



Get yourself a ticket to Eindhoven :)
I'll be happy to show the printers!


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85589 is a reply to message #85586 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 09:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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three factors stopping me Mitchell;
1 - I've no passport
2 - #1 son is getting married in July = little money to spare
3 - #1 daughter is 18 in July = no money to spare
Plus I'd rather have a ProJet 3500 to play with in my own time = abosolutely no money and loads of fun :)

Cheers,
Paul
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85590 is a reply to message #85529 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 10:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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natalia wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 15:55

Hey guys,


The 3D printing process is not binary - just because a machine printed one thing successfully one time, does NOT guarantee that it will again. It's more a question of probability. (And this explains those infuriating printed-before rejections). We may ship you a successful print, but what you don;t know is that we tried to print it 4 times before it was successful. When you order it again, it has a 1/4 chance of being printed.


Natalia





I had an vague idea that you try to print models more than once if a print fails, is there any way of us getting to know when this happens.

I certainly would like to know if a model is on the borderline and it may take a few minor tweaks to make it rock solid.

PIA is another step forward .... thanks


Alexander. N Scale American modeller. Please visit my shop Boxcar Models.
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85592 is a reply to message #85590 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 10:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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First of all, I have to say PIA is a step forward in a good direction. And don't forget you haven't obligation to use it if you don't like it.

Last week I asked to Shappy Team for something like this with a F.C.Sadstone model - They said yes, and I'm waiting for the results.

All the improvements in the web are good. Wall thickness visualizer is the more practical and an awesome help to designers.

But I can't understand why if a model pass the engineer check and goes to production, but passing a week the model is rejected as unprintable.

Who is the weakest link of the chain: The fat fingers designer (me), the checking engineer (with his magnifying glass and big axe) or the manufacturing team?
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85593 is a reply to message #85592 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 10:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar MitchellJetten  is currently offline MitchellJetten
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Quote:

But I can't understand why if a model pass the engineer check and goes to production, but passing a week the model is rejected as unprintable.


In this case the production team did print your model, but possibly broke and thus got rejected :(


Kind regards,

Mitchell Jetten
Customer Service Coordinator
Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85613 is a reply to message #85498 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 14:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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HOLDEN8702, our goal with all of these projects is to get to place where there is no weakest link ;-)

Between wall thickness checking, Print It Anyway, continuous calibration in our factories and a whole host of other projects in the pipeline, I'm pretty sure we'll get there soon!


Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85617 is a reply to message #85613 ] Fri, 28 February 2014 16:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar HOLDEN8702  is currently offline HOLDEN8702
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At the end, no results. Rejected again. My robots stood still in RoboHeaven.....
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85657 is a reply to message #85575 ] Sat, 01 March 2014 22:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JMorgen  is currently offline JMorgen
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Hey Paul

I'm truly sorry for your prior issues with FUD quality. We've made sure to hire technicians that have a gentle demeanor with a passion for customer satisfaction. They know that the items they handle have emotional value for the person who has ordered them, and they try their best. Still, they are humans and they make mistakes at times. We have been reading the forums and working with Customer Service to identify ways to make our practices better. Currently, we are exploring and testing better packaging techniques to ensure your items make it to their destination intact.

All teams that handle products associated with "Print It Anyway" have been instructed that they are to handle and care for all models equally. However, "Print It Anyway" models are actually receiving treatment beyond that of the non "Print It Anyway" models. If a model prints and makes it through shipping successfully, we are processing it as usual. If it does not, and the "Print It Anyway" feature is checked, we now have to perform an investigation as to why the quality failure occurred so that we can first identify whether the quality failure was a fault of our own or to give the best possible feedback to the customer.

During this investigation, if we find that the quality issue occurred through fault of our own, we will correct this issue and try to produce your model with better quality before shipping. The only reason that we would intentionally ship to you with suboptimal quality is if the issue was unavoidable due to the design.

Thanks for your feedback. I hope that we can improve our practices to support the needs of you and your shop.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 March 2014 22:37 UTC]


NY Operations Lead | Shapeways
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85667 is a reply to message #85657 ] Sun, 02 March 2014 06:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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Well I'll be darned! There may be hope for Shapeways after all! HAHAHA! :D

Can we get revenge by ordering up our previously rejected models so we can prove to the rejection mongers that we were right all along?!! HAHA! :D

I'm happy to see that Shapeways is making big moves to improve. :)





Sculptural artist James William Kincaid III
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Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85698 is a reply to message #85498 ] Sun, 02 March 2014 18:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar PiecePrints  is currently offline PiecePrints
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any way ceramics will be on that list soon?
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85733 is a reply to message #85498 ] Mon, 03 March 2014 14:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Blester, as this is a pilot program, we're keeping it to our three most popular materials, and the ones that we do the most of in-house. As we learn and see how PIA is going, we may be able to expand it to other materials.


Ex-Shapeways Community Manager <3
Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85789 is a reply to message #85733 ] Tue, 04 March 2014 13:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Innovo  is currently offline Innovo
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This would benefit me greatly since I prototype a lot . Problem is I use Stainless steel mostly so...

BRING ME THE METAL!



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Re: Print It Anyway: Want to Experiment More with 3D Printing? Tell us to PIA! [message #85856 is a reply to message #85568 ] Thu, 06 March 2014 01:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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pete wrote on Thu, 27 February 2014 20:37

Hi all,

.....................

We definitely want to figure out how to get you all the models you want and communicate clearly when we can't and why. You have our commitment we are working on just that. Your feedback is helping us to get there. Thank you for that.

Pete


Pete

The point I was trying to make before, is that feedback from you to us, when you have problems producing our models, would help us to produce models which did not give you problems.

While I applaud this initiative, I know you sometimes have to retry making things, if it still fails we get to hear about it, but if it succeeds on the second or subsequent try we don't.

If it's something marginal in the model that causes this, it might be possible for us to redesign said model. These marginal models must add your costs and you must have existing systems in place to reprocess them. Would it be so difficult to add us designers in the the normal processing loop as well as is this case? Or is this something you plan after you have the experience from this initiative ?

I've noticed that often models of mine go into production, but then return to a processing state - is this an indication you have had problems producing it ?

Tom




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