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Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71046] Fri, 05 July 2013 16:54 UTC Go to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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I was reading elsewhere on the 'net that there is a printer called an envisionTEC micro which uses PEC5050, a resin that has burnt-out characteristics so it can be used in direct-casting techniques; is there any chance that Shapeways will someday offer this material?


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71158 is a reply to message #71046 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 09:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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We've looked in to this, but the material is *VERY* brittle. As a result, we don't think we can ship it to you in one piece. It's still on our list of potential materials, but we'll have to solve the shipping issue first.


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71169 is a reply to message #71158 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 13:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Thanks for the info. Wasn't aware of the brittleness.... And as has been mentioned before wax is too soft (potential melting problems)... wonder if we'll ever find a suitable material for casting...?


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71170 is a reply to message #71169 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 13:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Actually I may have spoken too soon here - at Mitchell told me, the Solidscape creates extremely brittle models, the envisionTEC might do better. Heat is still another issue (Imagine leaving a parcel in the sun somewhere and receiving a puddle instead of a product).

We're well aware of the demand for these types of material though, like I said, we'll be sure to keep it on our wish list.

Bart


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71173 is a reply to message #71046 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 13:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Yes, even if you couldn't find a material safe to ship I would be happy with a material that is capable of very fine detail for you to process like you do for the silver. I have seen some amazingly detailed models created like this. I would venture to guess that a lot of Shapeways members would love to print much finer models in various metals.


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71190 is a reply to message #71173 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 18:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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Hi Glenn,

Yes! I would like this material too!

I've heard that Shapeways' ordinary FUD material can be burned out if one uses the proper investment and burnout cycle. I don't remember where I first heard this though. The investment needs to be stronger than regular investment cuz of expansion forces and I've found at least one company that may make something that'll work. The investment is Ransom and Randolph's PlastiCast, see here for an example supplier. I have a box of it sitting here, but haven't gotten around to experimenting with it yet.

When I do, I'll post the results! Surprised




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71196 is a reply to message #71190 ] Mon, 08 July 2013 21:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Well, what's wrong with you, James - get on it! Smile

Seriously, I'd be very interested in your results.


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71252 is a reply to message #71196 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 13:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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Yeah me too! HAHAHA! Laughing

There's just so much stuff for me to do during summer! Confused

I'll try to work on this some time before the end of the month hopefully. Smile




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James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71255 is a reply to message #71046 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 14:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Haha, understandable... Can I start the countdown now?!


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71270 is a reply to message #71255 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 15:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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Can't hurt! Very Happy

If it worked though, then the next question would be, when will Shapeways offer 16 micron layer thickness FUD. The current isn't that bad, but for some geometries it requires finishing, which I hate doing. Confused

Then again, if Shapeways would just lower the lead time and offer a patinating option we'd be in business! Surprised

Shapeways could be making billions if they would make a few adjustments to completely tap into the consumer market.

Maybe Shapeways should divide up into two companies. One that concentrates on rapid prototyping services and one that focuses on what the founders originally intended. They should divide up cuz these two areas interfere with each other. If they had a company solely devoted to consumer goods they could then make deals with designers and bring them inside to a degree, while the other company could continue to charge the going rate for rapid prototyping services for everyone else.

The reason they have the long lead times is they don't have enough orders to fill up the part trays, so they wait for orders to come in to make it worth running the machine cycle. We know this cuz we have Peter on video saying it. Well, there are far more people in the world that want something like a pair of 3D printed shoes or an amazing 3D printed purse than there are makers that want items for their projects and engineers that want their prototypes.

Sooner or later someone is going to go for it, and when they do, I'll be there designing up a storm! Very Happy




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James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71275 is a reply to message #71270 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 16:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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UniverseBecoming wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 15:52

Well, there are far more people in the world that want something like a pair of 3D printed shoes or an amazing 3D printed purse than there are makers that want items for their projects and engineers that want their prototypes.

Only shapeways will know, (and they will not tell us) but do fashion items at the current level of quality really have any appeal outside the "geek" scene ? How many steps would anyone want to walk in single-material WSF shoes, how many gals in your neighborhood crave for a 3d-printed purse that has about the appeal of the macrame owls of my youth (though it is fun for a geek to know that it is possible to print them) ?
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71282 is a reply to message #71270 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 16:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Those are some pretty good points, James, and here, just for you mkroeker:
index.php?t=getfile&id=36076&private=0

  • Attachment: owl.jpg
    (Size: 24.12KB, Downloaded 167 time(s))


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71284 is a reply to message #71282 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 17:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Guess I had that coming. Ha ! Weekend contest topic !! Very Happy
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71294 is a reply to message #71275 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 17:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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mkroeker wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 16:30

UniverseBecoming wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 15:52

Well, there are far more people in the world that want something like a pair of 3D printed shoes or an amazing 3D printed purse than there are makers that want items for their projects and engineers that want their prototypes.

Only shapeways will know, (and they will not tell us) but do fashion items at the current level of quality really have any appeal outside the "geek" scene ? How many steps would anyone want to walk in single-material WSF shoes, how many gals in your neighborhood crave for a 3d-printed purse that has about the appeal of the macrame owls of my youth (though it is fun for a geek to know that it is possible to print them) ?



For fashion stuff, I think it's just on the verge of becoming doable as far what people will pay for currently outside of the nerd crowd. Keep in mind that quite a bit of comfort can be attained by the use of digital fabrics in the designs even though polyamide, for example, is quite rigid. I would try it, but the lead times are still out of range for anything that isn't completely custom.

As for something like a purse, think of the bizarre designs that could be 3D printed that would be feasibly impossible to manufacture any other way. People like to stand out from the crowd, so, what better way to do that then to have something that is off the wall and unique. Smile




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71296 is a reply to message #71294 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 17:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Quote:

As for something like a purse, think of the bizarre designs that could be 3D printed that would be feasibly impossible to manufacture any other way. People like to stand out from the crowd, so, what better way to do that then to have something that is off the wall and unique. Smile


So people like something unique.

And Shapeways can make billions out of selling these unique items to the multitude clamouring for them.

Thus rendering the items no longer unique, or desirable. Or quite so profitable.




Having said that, Chanel are selling a purse/handbag for more than 5000 GBP made out of plastic. It's called the Chanel Lego Clutch - check it out!

Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71298 is a reply to message #71296 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 18:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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That's nothing! Look what people have paid for purses on eBay!

And they're almost as insane when it comes to shoes! Laughing

True though, people would eventually come to want something else, but I think it would last for at least 5 years before burning out. Maybe longer depending on the advancements of technology and materials.




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71299 is a reply to message #71298 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 18:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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UniverseBecoming wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 18:14

That's nothing! Look what people have paid for purses on eBay!

And they're almost as insane when it comes to shoes! Laughing




Haha, yeah, I'm going to send $70,000+ to a complete stranger on eBay!! Wait just a minute.... yep - a new sucker has just been born... !

Back on topic - how about a bag made out of molten metal - Have you seen Shapeways latest Blog post?


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71301 is a reply to message #71299 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 18:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Yes I just saw that! Amazing! Very Happy

Makes me want to try messing around with a syringe and some gallium!

And I'll be damned if Chanel isn't selling a PLASTIC PURSE for $7K ! WHAT THE!!! HAHAHA!! Laughing AmLach wasn't joking! HAHAHA!!! Laughing




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71302 is a reply to message #71301 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 18:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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UniverseBecoming wrote on Tue, 09 July 2013 18:32


And I'll be damned if Chanel isn't selling a PLASTIC PURSE for $7K ! WHAT THE!!! HAHAHA!! Laughing AmLach wasn't joking! HAHAHA!!! Laughing


And there are always celebrities dumb enough to buy them! Bad enough that high-end goods with at least some craftsmanship sell for exhorbitant amounts, but a PLASTIC PURSE! What was my last comment about a new one being born every minute!


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71305 is a reply to message #71298 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 19:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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Just wanted to clarify that my mentioning of gallium above was before actually reading the article, in which I see that they are using EGaIn a gallium indium alloy. I mentioned gallium cuz I have it on hand and thought it would be easy to play with since its melting point is 85.59°F. The alloy they're using is molten at room temperature and the effect they're demonstrating is for gallium alloys that are to stay molten and held together by an oxidation layer.

However, it still makes one want to play around with this! I know I would if I had time! Very Happy




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71309 is a reply to message #71305 ] Tue, 09 July 2013 20:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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85.59 F should be good enough for a hot summer day. Then there is always mercury Very Happy ,
the sodium-potassium eutectic (kaboom in a summer rain) Laughing and cesium (more kaboom
even without rain) Twisted Evil
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71345 is a reply to message #71309 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 14:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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HAHAHA! Very Happy I didn't know about those eutectic alloys. Interesting! Surprised




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71351 is a reply to message #71345 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 15:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Obviously you can get even more options if you raise your room temperature Very Happy
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71359 is a reply to message #71351 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 15:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Yeah, I'll even bet that this will work for all metals and alloys. I'll also bet that the structures will solidify in place when the temperature is lowered below the melting point.

Come to think of it, Shapeways should have a research and development branch. Since their whole entire business could end overnight if a 3D printing breakthrough were made by someone else, a competitor! They could then operate under trade secrete and all would be lost for Shapeways.

Better to be the one making the breakthroughs! Very Happy




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James
Re: Any chance of getting PEC5050 material for direct casting? [message #71361 is a reply to message #71359 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 15:24 UTC Go to previous message
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^ That's my 500th post in this forum! Very Happy

I usually don't stay that long in any particular forum. But this is a great forum! Surprised




I prefer to know nothing about everything rather than everything about nothing.  

James

 
   
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