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Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29650 is a reply to message #29649 ] Fri, 24 June 2011 20:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Spoors  is currently offline Spoors
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Right ... however Jettuh noted that Shapeways probably will make a maximum parts per file rule in the future ...
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29651 is a reply to message #29570 ] Fri, 24 June 2011 20:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AotrsCommander  is currently offline AotrsCommander
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If, in the what I would consider highly unlikely event that the start-up price is per order, not per model, I would retract my former statement, as that would be livable with. I don't think iut's likely, though since to my knowledge, none of the other material start-up costs work that way (or at least not on any I personally use, though that is granted, limited to SWF and TD).
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29652 is a reply to message #29650 ] Fri, 24 June 2011 20:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Spoors wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 20:49

Right ... however Jettuh noted that Shapeways probably will make a maximum parts per file rule in the future ...


The FUD chain maille I received had 192 parts (see; FUDtastic), I've also received WSF chain maille items with many more parts... the limit is the the number of triangles... the number of parts is how they're joined and what work is creates in the after print process... just be creative how the parts are joined/linked together Wink

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 20:59 UTC]

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29657 is a reply to message #29652 ] Fri, 24 June 2011 23:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SIXTHSCALE  is currently offline SIXTHSCALE
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well i guess my best solution is to order all my FUD prototypes today before the price change and save like 200 dollars....

i was hoping to wait for my previous order to arrive first to see how well black detail did as a possible substitute on detailed models... but it's been over 3 weeks

short on funds this weekend but i guess i'm making an order.

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29660 is a reply to message #29657 ] Fri, 24 June 2011 23:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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Actually if your models are low polygon counts. You are better off to wait.

Adding multiple models to a single file is super easy. In ASCII STL files you can do it easily in notepad by cut and pasting the triangle info from each to a single file. For binary STL files I wrote a program to do it on my server but I am pretty sure netfabb can do it and the program is free.

As long as you keep under 1,000,000 triangles you can add as much to the file as you want. If the new resulting model is more then 5.5cm^3 then you will save money with new pricing.

I do this all the time to save customers $2.50 per model in WSF.


For those of you that buy paint then resell this will make your costs cheaper. For those that let the customer buy on shapeways this will make more expensive unless your customers are willing to buy bulk packs.

If anyone out there has a webserver and a bit of programming knowledge send me a message and we can negotiate a fair price for the code to render a group pack, and upload to shapeways so the customer can buy it.


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Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29662 is a reply to message #29570 ] Sat, 25 June 2011 00:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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$5 start-up?! Are you kidding me?! You just killed my entire product line. Between requirements for minimum wall thickness and level of detail, FD/FUD was the only material that you offer that made it even possible for me to print my models. My profit was already small. Now it's non-existent. What the heck guys?! The original FD/FUD pricing wasn't all that great, but at least it was do-able. Now? FRAK!

And how am I supposed to go nest a bunch of models into a single file? I have no idea how many of each my customers want, except that it's usually one copy of 3-4 designs, and it's always a different configuration. And I don't want to tie up my money in maintaining inventory and having to ship boxes direct to customers, along with increased communications. Shapeways' pricing already takes that into consideration.

The entire point of the store here is to automate this process as much as possible.

Thanks for shutting me down AGAIN!.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29667 is a reply to message #29625 ] Sat, 25 June 2011 02:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar CGD  is currently offline CGD
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fx wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 18:18

Also this way too high startup kills completely my whole product line here on Shapeways. Sad Now for me it's clear: Selling on eBay is the way to go. Stuffing a lot of parts in one STL file only works when I repackage my things and sell them there...




Totally agreed. Just like WSF before and after it has start up cost.
Time to change the FUD items in my shop to Not for Sale...nobody will buy it with that pricing anyway... Confused
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29706 is a reply to message #29570 ] Sat, 25 June 2011 22:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar cyborg_ar  is currently offline cyborg_ar
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Hm, i'm not that devastated by this pricing change, the models i have been preparing for FD/FUD were around 4-5cc in volume, near the "break even" price point.

I see F(U)D as a material for making very complex pieces, with working parts inside (and that's all i'm designing with the material). The startup costs discourage making tiny loose parts that are hard to handle, which makes perfect business sense. I often wonder how the guys at the print shop do to find and package the correct pieces from a big print run, sounds like an annoying job to do.

Implementing a limit on loose pieces per file could work, as an increased number of loose pieces complicates handling and cleaning, but probably should be done with a soft limit and rejection in a case by case basis. Say, allow the guy who wants to print a chain mail that wont be a huge hassle, but deny/split orders on the guy who wants to print a thousand knives without a support mesh (that will make the guys at the shop want to shoot them at somebody)

3D printing not only involves art, it also requires careful engineering and business thinking Smile Something i noticed in the material sheet of fud is that it allows a 50 micron gap between loose parts, and some people took that literally and found out it's not possible to clean that well. That's info that should be added.

XD okay now i'm rambling, i think i'll better stop typing now :3
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29711 is a reply to message #29706 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 01:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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FUD does not work well for moving parts because the wax is very sticky and does not like to get out of printed bearings. WSF so far seems to make the tightest tolerance printed bearings and it requires 0.7mm. The powder does not escape at this but the powder is not sticky so the bearings still turn.


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Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29715 is a reply to message #29711 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 02:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SIXTHSCALE  is currently offline SIXTHSCALE
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But what FUD does work extremely well for is making small scale detailed items without having to sacrifice proportions to meet thick wall requirements....

unfortunately the new pricing makes the material economically unfit for that purpose.

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29716 is a reply to message #29715 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 02:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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SIXTHSCALE wrote on Sun, 26 June 2011 02:18

But what FUD does work extremely well for is making small scale detailed items without having to sacrifice proportions to meet thick wall requirements....

unfortunately the new pricing makes the material economically unfit for that purpose.




So what you're saying is that FD/FUD now serves no purpose whatsoever.

Want durability? Go with Metal or Strong&Flexible.

Want detail? Go X-Detail.

So what does FUD offer? Detail comparable to X-Detail, but with smaller wall thickness. Oh, yeah, at double the cost.

Pass.

Break even at ~5.5cm^3? Newsflash: If I have a model at 5.5cm^3, I'm already not going to print it in FD/FUD because it's simply too much. I know my customers. They're not going to pay $30 for a model that size.

So how big is 5.5cm^3? Ever play a table top wargame? Battletech or Warhammer? A "standard" sized fig is pushing 10cm^3. No one is going to pay $40 for that. Oh, that's right, that's the manufacturing cost. Forget about any mark-up.

The ONLY thing FUD had going for it was detail with small wall thickness requirements. Almost by definition this means small, detailed parts. And you guys just priced yourself out. I keep looking for excuses to work with Shapeways, and they keep looking for ways to push me to Ponoko.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29718 is a reply to message #29716 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 03:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SierraStudios  is currently offline SierraStudios
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Quote:



So how big is 5.5cm^3? Ever play a table top wargame? Battletech or Warhammer? A "standard" sized fig is pushing 10cm^3. No one is going to pay $40 for that. Oh, that's right, that's the manufacturing cost. Forget about any mark-up.




Normally I would be leading the charge with torches and pitchforks in the argument against the new FUD charges, but I am going to go against you on this one. I happen to have a couple Galaxies worth of Ral Partha and Ironwind Metals Battletech figures on my desk and random shelves around the house. I can tell you one thing for certain, they are NOT about 10cm^3 worth of material. They might be pushing 6 or 7. And I would gladly pay the almost $30 that it would cost for a highly detailed and accurate miniature. It gets kind of old painting the same minis time and time again and there are times when I would pay good amounts for a new sculpt of say, a Masakari (Warhawk) or a Thor (Summoner). Just my two cents.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29721 is a reply to message #29718 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 03:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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Really? I beg to differ: Warhammer volume check. That's a 70 ton Mech in CBT scale. Lighter Mechs will be less, heavier Mechs will be more. My lightest one is 6cm^3. My second heaviest one is 13cm^3. My heaviest one is 66cm^3, and that's in the same scale. In the end, like I said, they're pushing 10cm^3. Sure, I can hollow it. At that point New FUD will be $3 less to print than Old FUD ($29 vs. $32).

As a friendly reminder, $30 would cover the cost to print. That doesn't include any profit. And while I have no delusions about getting rich, I'd at least like to make my investment back. Having been doing this for five years, I know that it's not going to happen at $1 markup per model. At this point I am much, much better off going back to resin.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29724 is a reply to message #29721 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 04:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SierraStudios  is currently offline SierraStudios
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I know from melting one down but I will go ahead and take your word for it for argument's sake. Let's just say that with markup your mech is about $40. That is roughly 3 times the cost of one of the metal minis at my local shop. I would still rather pay for a new sculpt of a mech in a different pose and that might be more customizable than the metal one just to break it up. I don't really need 7 stars (or roughly 35) of the same mini. If I want to mix it up with a few different variants I will either need to spend a ton of time making the parts myself and cutting on a mini, or I can just buy yours. For me, SW wins this one. But like I said, that's just my thoughts on the matter and if you are making these somewhere else, please link because I would love to see what you have! Thanks!
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29726 is a reply to message #29724 ] Sun, 26 June 2011 05:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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My last print bureau used to list the volumes on the invoice. And my various pieces of software agree within a cubic mm. Of course that doesn't hold for all designs. I notice you're talking about Clan Mechs and I assume Omnis? Many of those are Chicken-walkers. Those tend to have both spindly arms and legs.

For me, I know what my audience will pay. The Warhammers and Marauders sold out in two days, so those were under-priced at $20 apiece. Or were they? I did a second, half-run for Warhammers and they took a month to sell out. I don't like sitting on inventory for even that long. The Rifleman, OTOH, had a run about 2/3 that of the initial Warhammer run. Three months later and they're still not sold out. Similar deal for the Archers, which took about six months to sell out. All were $20 per kit. So I might be able to hit $30, but that's pushing it (though I did see one pop up on Ebay for $55 once) and it's going to leave me sitting on stock for much longer.

Now, I know what you're thinking... Maybe the kits were no good? Yes, it's patting myself on the back, but I have a darn good reputation. You're welcome to ask after me (Justicar) on Lords of the Battlefield and The Mighty Ten-12 (Star Trek 1/2500) and see what people think. I'm pretty sure you'd be amazed if you saw my Warhammer: It's 26 pieces (in two inches tall) and has fully pose-able joints. Check that Photobucket link and you'll see parts breakdowns for some of them. About the only thing I didn't do was individual missiles, and I was sorely tempted to. This is the sort of kit that FUD was meant for, but the price is just too much. Well, in resin it's a multi-part kit. In FUD I would have had a half-dozen pre-posed versions.

That's why I started looking at going from 1/300 down to 1/450. I figured with 1" tall models I could hit $10 even with mark-up. With the new pricing, it's over $10 just to print it. I'd say it's back to the drawing board, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go back and re-design a model that was within their design tolerances. There comes a point when it's just not worth the hassle, and that's pretty much where we're headed.

All that said, I won't post any real sales information here. That's not the purpose of this thread. Sorry.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29784 is a reply to message #29570 ] Mon, 27 June 2011 17:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mo-design  is currently offline mo-design
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Hello,

I had a look on SW a long time and when they announced FUD I joined the community because that was the material I was looking for. High detail and small wall thickness, the right thing for railway miniatures.

Now the pricing system looks very bad for me. I see that the handling cost for a lot of tiny things are extremely high, but this system is not attractive for shop selling miniatures. As described above no one will look at an object that will cost 6$, when it has a volume of 0.10cm³ or less.
As self consuming designers we can combine several objects in one order, but will this help reducing SW handling cost? Other byers have not this opportunity and it couldn't be the SW idea that every costumer has to contact the designer to create a specific bulk.

I would prefer a higher volume price and then a discount for more than 5cm³ or something else, as it is done with WSF. Or what do you think about a handling and shipping fee per order?

Another approach I think could be possible, would be customized sprues. It is not as handy, because I like the 3D printing approach, where you don't have to remove any sprues. But I see also the handling problem in production and shipping. So my idea is, that the designer can define one or more faces of the object, which will be used as sprues. Now a customer can add several objects to his basket and if they have the same material they will be combined to one sprue. Perhaps this can be done automatically or we need an online editor where the user can design his sprue.
This will of course reduce the optimized packing volume of the printer, but will reduce handling effort as I assume.

m2cent
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Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29821 is a reply to message #29784 ] Tue, 28 June 2011 05:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that I've been watching and listening closely to this conversation.

I know this is a tough break for a lot of you, and I'm sorry. I'm not going to weigh in on some of these details just yet, because I'm still speaking with our operations and production team, and I want any info I share to be coming from an educated place. Just know for the time being that it's not falling on deaf ears.


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Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29931 is a reply to message #29570 ] Wed, 29 June 2011 22:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Sadwargamer  is currently offline Sadwargamer
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I am in the same boat - lots of small parts for 15mm scale models means my costs for many parts have sky rocketed - with fineline taking their Invision HR of fthe market this is now a double whammy for me... as commented this goes against the whole concept of being able to print very small yet high detail parts Sad

Adding two parts to cart - both parts retain the $5 fee is it is per part to be printed and not per order.

This means I will certainly have to combine lots of small parts - makes it more time consuming for me and no doubt more difficult for shapeways to manage... No doubt will also make sprues of many small parts - again time consuming my end Sad

regards
Andy


[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2011 22:56 UTC]

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29957 is a reply to message #29931 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar eTraxx  is currently offline eTraxx
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I had a part that was $.38 in FUD. Now it is $5.38. I placed 10 ea in my shopping cart. $53.80 ..

Geeze. Talk about cutting your own throat. I had been promoting Shapeways. Guess that will end.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29959 is a reply to message #29957 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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Put all 10 into one file. Should come out to ~$7.90 total now.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29960 is a reply to message #29959 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SIXTHSCALE  is currently offline SIXTHSCALE
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dymihail wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 15:06

Put all 10 into one file. Should come out to ~$7.90 total now.


that's still more than double the price he would have payed before.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29962 is a reply to message #29959 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar eTraxx  is currently offline eTraxx
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I'm aware of that. I've done that with another model where I ganged 20 small items onto a sprue. The thing is .. I've been praising Shapeways on the model railroad websites. Now .. none of the small parts I've uploaded to Shapeways make any sense ordering individually. Those people who follow my links to Shapeways .. will look .. and leave. Sure .. I can gang together however many items I can and mass print. Ok. Fine. so a customer instead of ordering one or two items has to order 20,30 or 50. The reason that there was so much excitement over FUD was the ability to have fine detail prints. This was of interest I know with the modeling crowd. A modeler might want say .. a fire plug in OO scale let's say. He or she might want two or three .. but now they have to purchase 30 ea? Just saying. The designer can order those 30 or 40 or 50 .. sure. He/She can then sell them individually to a customer. Ok. Got it. Just saying .. pretty much puts a stop to FUD sales for small items via the shop.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29964 is a reply to message #29960 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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SIXTHSCALE wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 15:09

dymihail wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 15:06

Put all 10 into one file. Should come out to ~$7.90 total now.


that's still more than double the price he would have payed before.


Yes, and it's a fraction of the $54 he'd pay under the current pricing scheme.

@eTraxx -- Instead of 50 fire hydrants, can you develop a Hero Kit? Some fire hydrants, mail boxes, park benches, chairs, light poles, etc. and gang them all together?

Yeah, not optimal. I get it. See my own previous grouses. I'm right there with you.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29965 is a reply to message #29962 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Here's how I feel about FUD.
It's great!

Here's how I feel about FUD pricing.
The previous price was the trial period price and was announced as such. The trial is now over.

Why do Shapeways need to have a trial period for a new material?
Because they need to gauge the popularity, useage and their overall cost.

Why has Shapeways now introduced FUD with a different pricing structure?
Because, due to the popularity and useage, the overall cost to them wasn't covered in the trial period.

To put it bluntly, we as designers have to adapt to the pricing structure.

My advice to those creating lots of individual miniatures, make up different groups as one model (they may need to be sprued together). Ask your customers what groups they'd like to see (maybe offer a discount for suggestions) Advertise the models as the group pack. Price the pack reasonably... and most of all, see the mainstream pricing structure as an advantage, after all the FUD cc price has decreased.

The above is my feelings and opinion... take it or leave it Smile

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29966 is a reply to message #29962 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Sadly I think it's going to push more of us model railway people down the road of having to buy our own stuff and resell it ourselves to the final consumer.

it's a change in role from being a drop-shipper to a small-scale manufacturer. It's also going to bring us increased costs which we are going to our customers, so we are going to have to think much more carefully about our pricing and what will sell.

But we have a wonderful new medium here, there is so much we can do that would not have been viable before, but it necessary for us and our market to mature a little and move on.


Tom
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29967 is a reply to message #29966 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Tom, you put it much better then I tried to in my rambling comment. You said "it's a change in role from being a drop-shipper to a small-scale manufacturer" .. ha. In that one sentence you summed up what I was *attempting* to say. Smile
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29968 is a reply to message #29570 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Yes well I've been thinking about this for a while myself, so I've had time to crystallize my thoughts Smile
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29969 is a reply to message #29965 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 15:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar CGD  is currently offline CGD
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stop4stuff wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 15:37



The above is my feelings and opinion... take it or leave it Smile




Yeah right, I'll leave it. Going back to WSF.

Everything is supply and demand. When the supply decided to introduce measures to cut demand, demand will drop. And eventually there is no need to supply. The huge demand during the trial period will never be. Everybody loses.

BTW, FUD is not that great. My trial pieces suffers huge breakage due to the brittle nature. I won't dare re-pack and re-ship the products to my customers. I suspect the operators in Shapeways knew that too. I think a lost of pieces break during handling and that's one of the factors of the delays. And they need to reprint my broken parts too.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29970 is a reply to message #29570 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 16:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar fx  is currently offline fx
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I think this increase is a simple way for Shapeways to kill two birds with one stone:

1. Clearing the backlog by cutting demand without the need to subcontract another printer.
2. More profitability through increased price for most parts sold in this material.

Before this increase, I guess scale models enthusiasts were ordering several parts in several shops. Now, they will think twice before they order something...

I'm wondering : Any plan to push the polygon limit to 2 Million for this material ?

[Updated on: Thu, 30 June 2011 16:35 UTC]

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29971 is a reply to message #29969 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 16:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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@CGD - I've had parts in both FD & FUD. FD is quite brittle and sub 1mm areas break easily, but the parts in FUD have a fair amount of flexibility at 0.3 to 0.5 mm wall thickness. There's not alot of difference between FD & FUD, except for the material density, FUD is printed at double the resoultion of FD... FUD will appear quite transparent (~90% transparency), whereas FD is noticably more opaque (~60% or less)... are you sure you received the right material?

Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29972 is a reply to message #29971 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 17:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar CGD  is currently offline CGD
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stop4stuff wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 16:47

@CGD - I've had parts in both FD & FUD. FD is quite brittle and sub 1mm areas break easily, but the parts in FUD have a fair amount of flexibility at 0.3 to 0.5 mm wall thickness. There's not alot of difference between FD & FUD, except for the material density, FUD is printed at double the resoultion of FD... FUD will appear quite transparent (~90% transparency), whereas FD is noticably more opaque (~60% or less)... are you sure you received the right material?




You can take a look at my recent shipment:
http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=5621&a mp;start=0&

I ordered FUD. According to your description, I could have received 9 styles of figures in FUD and one style in FD? Shocked

That would have been very strange.

As for my previous test print of vehicles, I used the same models for WSF to print. So they were built with 0.75 to 1mm wall thickness. I got 1mm guns of FUD broken a lot. And one vehicle suffered a 3 feet (I meter) drop and shattered like glass, but that might be a FD according to your description.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29974 is a reply to message #29972 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 17:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SIXTHSCALE  is currently offline SIXTHSCALE
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that's odd... because the FUD pieces i have are very flexible...

in fact some 1:6 scale sword blade blanks i ordered using the image popper came out paper thin because of a miscalculation of the thickness (probably my fault ) and while they are useless for the purpose i intended... they are literally flexible enough to tie them in a loose knot without them breaking. and a miniature knife i printed in FUD has blade less than a millimeter thick at the thickest part and probably .3 mm at the nonbeveled point and edge and it's not remotely brittle...

i'm still waiting on my second shipment of much more detailed FUD pieces and am really hoping that your experience is the exception to the rule and mine is not.
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #29989 is a reply to message #29974 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 21:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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I have a solution. I have a program that will auto generate stl files. If you provide me your designs customers could select all the designs they want from the list and it would auto generate a pack with them in it.

Pros: Only 1 startup fee per pack
Cons:
1) Takes 3 to 10 minutes to generate pack depending how quick shapeways render engine is running
2) New model would be sold on my ICC shop so I need to keep track of sales and pay you instead of shapeways.
3) You need to trust me with your stl files.

It is an option. I can price it in 1 of 2 ways.

1) Each model has a packing percentage and customer only gets charged $5.50 per block($0.50 to cover my costs) so a model with 500,000 triangles takes up 50 spaces customer can buy up to 100.
2) Have triangle limit and minimum order and include startup in cost of each model.

If people are interested I will set it up. If people aren't fine.


Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/mctrivia or my blog at http://4ddice.blogspot.com/
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30000 is a reply to message #29989 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 22:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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That's interesting, but you left out an option... You could tell us what program this is and let us do it...
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30001 is a reply to message #30000 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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I wrote it myself. It generates group packs and custom products and then uploads them to shapeways. Requires a PHP server with cron jobs. I guess I could sell the code also but figured more would be interested if I maintained it.


Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/mctrivia or my blog at http://4ddice.blogspot.com/
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30003 is a reply to message #30001 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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See, that's information that I would have considered important enough to be in the initial offer Smile
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30004 is a reply to message #30001 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar eTraxx  is currently offline eTraxx
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Geeze. I have PHP running on my Windows XP using Apache. After 5 beers though .. "cron jobs" .. just makes me cross-eyed. Very Happy
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30005 is a reply to message #30004 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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ya I do to, to test things. My server farm is in Toronto though. Do not recommend sending your clients to your personal computer.

The nice thing if one person hosts everything is people can buy products from different designers and get all grouped together.

I can pick up a dedicated domain for this service and instead of sending people to shapeways send them to www.????.com/yourshop

they see all your stuff first then get asked about others stuff afterwards. group together send to shapeways for them to order the pack.


Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/mctrivia or my blog at http://4ddice.blogspot.com/
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30007 is a reply to message #30005 ] Thu, 30 June 2011 23:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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Yeah, but imagine the meta customer service nightmares if one wall was too thin or some part gets returned. Mad

I would like some software tool which can take a dozen strange shaped parts and pack them together so that the 10% density rule is satisfied as well as minimum clearance. I have done it by hand sometimes, but it can be tough!
Re: Final Negotiations on FD/FUD [message #30008 is a reply to message #30007 ] Fri, 01 July 2011 00:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar bitstoatoms  is currently offline bitstoatoms
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Hey Guys,
Please hold tight,

We did not increase the price to kill demand, we have invested in new machines to handle the demand...

Nor is Shapeways trying and make the most cash possible from a popular product, we are just trying to get the balance right, as you can imagine, under $1 to print, clean and pack a delicate item is not sustainable at this point.

We are listening intently to your reactions and will do our absolute best to ensure that FD/FUD remains a viable option for your items...

Keep on letting us know what you think is a reasonable price, let us know of any quality issues you have and we will continue to try and make it happen.

Thanks again for all of your input..


Duann Scott


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