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Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7525] Thu, 29 October 2009 14:46 UTC Go to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I have been looking and looking for the Cheapest, most efficient way to "go green". Unfortunately right now I don't even have the dough to get my testing started. But that doesn't stop me from thinking. I have envisioned a system to completely remove me off the grid as they call it. I have many issues with today's methods for going green. #1 is price. It would cost me the price of my car to go solar. It would pay itself off in half of the life span of the panels, but if everyone goes solar, what is going to happen to the price of oil? It'll go down to where you lose money going solar. Solar is very misleading, I'm no electrician, but I believe I know enough to make the following statements. What we call batteries are in most cases actually cells. A double A battery is not a battery until you combine 2 of them in parallel, as you'll notice most battery powered items require a multiple of 2 batteries. A solar cell is nothing more then a battery powered by the sun instead of a chemical reaction like your AA's. A battery dies because the internal chemical reaction runs out of chemical. A Solar cell dies when it runs out of Electrons. The electrons are lost in the power exerted in your home. So I could go on and on with my problems with solar, but I'll turn it over to my new interest. The Peltier Effect. Notice I didn't say Peltier cells. Peltier cells, like Solar sells require extremely pure p Silicon, and n Silicon. I do not have a Silicon purification plant in my basement, nor the money to purchase it. But when Peltier discovered the Peltier Effect, he didn't use semiconductors. He used a copper wire, and a Bismuth wire. Bismuth is rare, but the only requirement is 2 different types of metals. Although metals are less effective in the Peltier Effect then semiconductors, they do work, and they can work at higher temperatures. Insert my parabolic dish. Fire high amounts of energy at the Peltier and create electricity with 0 moving parts. As long as you don't melt anything, and keep it out of the rain, 0 maintenance. And because you don't need purified Silicon, far less expensive.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/62116/parabolic_dish.html

Now, I don't completely dislike the idea of solar, I do have an idea to make them work up to 12 hours without any sunlight at all. I'll let you in on that one when I have time and money to test it.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7603 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 04 November 2009 12:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BAROBA  is currently offline BAROBA
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Thu, 29 October 2009 14:46

I have been looking and looking for the Cheapest, most efficient way to "go green".


Buy a recumbent bike or a velomobile Smile
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7607 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 04 November 2009 14:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I was thinking of getting a microwave and a mini fridge and just living at work Razz. I think the problem around the world is that Big Corporate wants us to think it's expensive and hard work to be "off the grid" because off the grid means no money going in their pockets. They would rather say, let us take care of it, your bills will drop a few dollars and you won't have to spend $20,000 to be off the grid. Just to give you an idea of the political goings on in the backgrounds. Bush, everyone knew he owned oil. He went to a Hydrogen car event, and they disappeared until Obama went into office. Obama was supported by GE. Obama got into office and GE got "assistance" from the US government. Energy bills are the highest ever, why does GE need assistance?


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7609 is a reply to message #7607 ] Wed, 04 November 2009 15:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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You could also become a vegetarian?

But, the model, it is supposed to generate power?

Joris


Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7615 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 04 November 2009 18:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I like my veggies, but I couldn't do without a big slice of beef next to them.

The model itself would not make energy alone. The model would (hopefully) when polished and pointed at the sun, direct enough sunlight to the cross bar that comes in to the center to maybe ignite a match. Even if it wasn't hot enough to do that, it would make a temperature difference, and with a peltier or stirling you'd be able to get energy out of it.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7802 is a reply to message #7615 ] Wed, 18 November 2009 13:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Dalhimar  is currently offline Dalhimar
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I can see you have been thinking about this kind of stuff alot, but i see at least one potential problem with this design.
These thermoelectric reactions create only small ammounts of electricity, i think on the scale of 50 microvolts per kelvin. So at about 200F you would be gettting around 0.018 volts respectivly from a copper constantan coupling....
At those ranges you would have to have alot of arrays or a special setup with a network of couples in conjunction over a high heat source. Usually these kind of devices are only used to measure extreme temperatures sucha s in a kiln or smelter.
And if i remember right, the free energy supercaps combined with opposing magnets creates about the same range in about the size of a double or tripple A battery.
If you want the best bang for the buck, you should look into solar sterling engines. These are basically a sort of steam engine that is super efficient and can even run off the heat of your hand. They use them out in arizona at one of the big solar farms. But at any rate, good luck with the project
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7803 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 18 November 2009 14:40 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I've looked at Stirlings, I've drawn one up, but I doubt it would print. My thought of using Peltier effect was part of a much larger idea. A solar hot water heater/ steam turbine with peltiers surrounding the hot water storage tank. You are right that it would be a waist of energy to point a fernel lens at a peltier, but the heat energy lost from the hot water system could be collected by them. I have an idea that hopefully in the next few months I'll be able to try. Anything I can do to save money that doesn't include buying a $20,000 system.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7805 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 18 November 2009 20:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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Good way of saving a bit of money is to get an exercise bike, couple it to an alternator and pedal while you watch T.V. Keeps you fit and save on the electricity.

Regards, Jack
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #7806 is a reply to message #7525 ] Wed, 18 November 2009 21:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Unfortunately a standard alternator from a car requires electricity to make electromagnets active inside to create electricity. Now a standard DC motor or generator would work, but then you would need an inverter. And of all power producing machines out there, humans aren't the most efficient. Reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago. Is it worth it to pick up a penny? how many calories do you burn picking up that penny compared to how many calories can you purchase with that penny? My opinion is it cost more energy to pick up the penny then the return. Similar with the bike or treadmill ideas. Save $25 on electric but spend $50 on food to have the extra energy to make that electricity. Don't get me wrong, we waist energy everywhere. Imagine if the keyboard I'm typing this extended response on had magnets on the keys that passed through copper coils to create electricity. It's something I'm doing anyway, and instead of it just sending an impulse to the computer telling it what key I'm punching, it would be using that motion to create power.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Finally a new Energy Idea [message #8105 is a reply to message #7525 ] Sun, 06 December 2009 02:47 UTC Go to previous message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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These good points lead me to another thought.

If the Peltier junctions described must be arrayed in a vastly parallel circuit to generate any usable voltage, how can we leverage our favorite new technology to address it?

We simply find two processes that print in very dissimilar metals, and assemble them to act as the junctions.

In fact, I see no reason why we can't print in a compound doped to act as semiconductor material.

Ultimately, a 3D printer should be able to print both materials and wire them together, but by about that time we hopefully will have worked out full 3D circuit printing and IC integration.

A method like that sounds awesome but would not be all that effective in reality. Thermoelectric modules are about 5% efficient. It would only be suited to small, oddly shaped devices that recycle their own power. Maybe 50% of the electronics industry could use it to extend battery life though.

The best part is, this thread that arguably constitutes both prior art and public disclosure, so no single company would be able to keep it from spreading with exorbitant licensing fees. It's free for the world, unless someone has already patented it.

Someone hurry up and make a Wikipedia entry just in case.


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog

 
   
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