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There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71357] Wed, 10 July 2013 15:13 UTC Go to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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1) What brings you to Shapeways?
BlenderNation.com has been a big supporter of Shapeways for a while. I finally have a model for test printing and decided to join. Lots to learn on my side and VERY excited to get started. I have a couple How To questions that I'll save for the end. Wink

2) Where are you from?
I'm from Greenville, NC, USA
My art and stores can easily be found on my simple website:
SEspiderProductions.com

3) What are your interests or hobbies that you plan on using Shapeways for?
I'm a graphic designer and amateur 3D artist. My goal iis to bring my characters to life from 2D to 3D and finally to Print. And hopefully be able to do the same for others like my Nephews and Niece. And one day my own kids.

4) Your software (Don't have one? Look here for a list of known compatible software!)
I use Blender 3D A Free Open Source program.

5) Your experience level
In designing or 3D printing setup?
If designing, I have 15+ years of experience but I'm a currently a noob when it comes to setting up for 3D printing. Thankfully I'm a fast learner. Wink

My first project of a Christmas ornament for Aerus based on a Christmas card I designed for them in 2012. I currently have a test 3D model ready for printing. But I've ran into a small issue that leads to my "How To" question I mentioned before.
How do I add color to my print?

Normally for such a simple design I just add material colors for the different parts (Orange, Red, White, Blue). But when I upload to Shapeways there are no colors for the Full Color Sandstone print option.
Do I have to set the colors as a texture instead?
And how do I upload the textures for the model and ensure Shapeways sees the UV orientation correctly?

Thank you in advance. Oh yeah, here are samples of the 3D logo in my Shapeway entry.
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/191/3/1/aerus3dsamples_by_sespider-d6cu1w6.jpg

Thanks for any and all help.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 July 2013 15:15 UTC]

Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71362 is a reply to message #71357 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 15:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Hi,
material colors (sometimes called "vertex colors") should work - however you need to export to VRML, X3D or DAE to get
the color information across. With textures, you would UV-map the texture to your model before exporting to one of these
formats and then upload a zip archive containing both the png or jpg texture image and the wrl/x3d file.
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71387 is a reply to message #71362 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 18:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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Thank you.
That seems to have done the trick.

However, the Blue and Red are not showing up.
Everything is correct on in the 3D file. Sad

Here's a link to it:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1202759/?li=modelEdit

[Updated on: Wed, 10 July 2013 18:19 UTC]

Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71393 is a reply to message #71387 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 21:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Hmm. There is a known bug in the rotating 3d preview that affects the coloring. Sadly the static preview image, which in my experience
always shows the correct coloring, is generated from a perspective that hides the relevant part. (As a workaround you could try rotating
your model before exporting, generally for the autogenerated preview images shapeways assumes that the z axis is up)
Does the coloring appear correct when you view your file in some other program (noteworthy free programs would be meshlab and netfabb studio basic for general checking/scaling/fixing and view3dscene as a vrml viewer) ?
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71410 is a reply to message #71393 ] Wed, 10 July 2013 22:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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The model is orientated for .obj export view. Now that I know the orientation for Full Color, I can fix it in the future.
The model looks fine in other programs, so I'm hoping it's a glitch. I'll know for sure when I order it in a few days.

Thanks for the help
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71436 is a reply to message #71357 ] Thu, 11 July 2013 12:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Hmmm you said you have the vertices colored? Do you have those elements sitting on the surface? If so, the automated software could have removed them. If you have multiple unstitched pieces, you want them to be overlapping and not sitting face to face.


Your friendly neighborhood Moderman
michael@shapeways.com
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71562 is a reply to message #71436 ] Sun, 14 July 2013 03:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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Hmmm you said you have the vertices colored? Do you have those elements sitting on the surface? If so, the automated software could have removed them. If you have multiple unstitched pieces, you want them to be overlapping and not sitting face to face.

The extruded parts are are colored in White, Red, and Blue. Each section is above the surface of the main (orange) structure of the mesh. Everything is colored via the material settings in Blender. Meaning, yes, the vertices are colored correctly. However, thanks to mkroeker, I have added a texture to the model in as needed for colored sandstone printing. I'm hoping it's a automated preview issue in Shapeway's previewer. Items not physically "stitched" together overlaps the main mesh cleaning and fully.

I've received a email today informing me my mesh passed inspection and is being printed. I'll know for sure once I get my hands on it. Gotta admit, I'm very excited about it. If the colors are missed up, then I'll have to figure out how to fix it for next time. I'll post pictures and possibly a video here once I have it. Wink

Thanks for the help.
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71649 is a reply to message #71562 ] Tue, 16 July 2013 10:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Hey SEspider,

first of all: it's always good to meet BlenderNation readers here Smile

Be careful if the preview render doesn't match your model: it's actually rendered *after* our 'Mesh Medic' software has fixed any errors in your model. From the 3D view it seems like part of the geometry is missing which, as Mike suggested, could be due to incorrect geometry. If something is missing is missing in the preview, it'll most likely also not make it to the printed product.

Bart


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71685 is a reply to message #71649 ] Tue, 16 July 2013 18:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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Thanks for the info.

I've contacted Shapeways asking about it and was confirmed that the colors are correct in my file and that the previewer issue was due to a glitch.
So that's good news. But they said that there are "14 Shells" in my mesh and reducing it to one should fix the previewer issue.

I've emailed them back a little while ago asking what they mean by "shells" cause I have no clue. converting my model to one single/connected mesh is what I'm assuming they are talking about. But that's proving to be very difficult. Below is the image they sent me.

http://oi42.tinypic.com/25u7dwx.jpg
Re: There's a SEspider hanging in the corner! [message #71714 is a reply to message #71685 ] Wed, 17 July 2013 09:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Shells are basically parts of your model that aren't part of the same volume. For example, if you have 2 separate cubes, these would be considered two shells. Also, however, if you have 2 overlapping cubes, this would be counted as two shells. Our Mesh Medic will apply a boolean union and turn it in to one shell.

Mesh Medic's booleans aren't always perfect though (especially with colors or texture maps!), so it's always a good idea to prepare the model as best as you can.

Cheers,

Bart


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
What am I doing wrong? [message #71909 is a reply to message #71714 ] Sat, 20 July 2013 20:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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My original file was reject due to walls being too thin.
So I adjusted them all to be at least 3mm and removed a large chunk of geometry to (interior support walls).

However, when I upload the files (as I did before) the texture is missing again and the printing price has tripled.
As before, the mesh, file and texture are all in the same root folder.

I've uploaded two versions of the mesh. One without support and one with minimum support, but the prices are the same?
What gives? Sad
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #71920 is a reply to message #71909 ] Sun, 21 July 2013 08:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Is the hole in the bottom still there ? Same price with and without stuff inside suggests that shapeways sees it as solid.
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #71972 is a reply to message #71920 ] Tue, 23 July 2013 02:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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The Escape Hole is still there and well large enough.
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #71991 is a reply to message #71920 ] Tue, 23 July 2013 13:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Quote:

Same price with and without stuff inside suggests that shapeways sees it as solid.
mkroeker is right, as ever. An alternative suggestion as to why SW sees it as solid is that your mesh is not watertight. Perhaps some of your changes were not quite correct and SW's software 'fixed' it on upload.
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #71996 is a reply to message #71991 ] Tue, 23 July 2013 13:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Hey, I'm just your friendly neighborhood pond dweller - on no account should it be assumed that I am always right.
I guess the mesh checking trick you outlined in your other recent posting -
a) Select Object;
b) Go to Edit mode;
c) De-select all vertices (A toggles between all and no Verts selected);
d) Press Ctrl-Alt-Shift-M together ---> non-manifold verts are highlighted.
could be useful here (seeing that netfabb cloud service cannot be fed WRL files) ?
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #71999 is a reply to message #71996 ] Tue, 23 July 2013 14:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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If all my local pond dwellers are as well-informed as you, I am not going near that pond again! Who knows what they are up to and whether they will hold my childhood misdemeanours against me!

Bit confused about the WRL file thing - wasn't that the other guy? (I imported his .wrl but when I exported it came out .x3d).

You are right though, as a Blender user, the non-Manifold check should help if his geometry is up the spout (see the Incey-Wincey Spider ref there?)
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72120 is a reply to message #71999 ] Wed, 24 July 2013 19:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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I've checked everything and found two unconnected verts that should not have been there. Removed them and no more non-manifold issues exist. I've also tripled checked for double verts and none exist.

I've gone ahead and made it all into one shell and limited it to only 2 colors.

Now, I didn't think much of this before but every time I submit it as Milimeters it fails the automated settings.
Says it needs "minimum bounding box size (h x w x d) of 0.25 x 0.25 x 0.25 cm / 0.098 x 0.098 x 0.098 inches"
But according to Blender, my model passes that test. It's 7.832cm x 5.425cm x 6.128cm. So I don't understand this issue with the automated feature.

So I've been submitting it under Meters instead and it passes the automated check.
But the texture still doesn't appear and the price is still 3 times higher then the original. And Gold plated is no longer a option.

I have to admit that this is getting extremely frustrating. I've gone from having one version on my file at a reasonable price to over 20 versions that are suppose to be fixed but at a 3 times as high price and texture that doesn't show.

If I could afford to, I'd send the file to someone to fix for me and explain where I went wrong. Evil or Very Mad Crying or Very Sad

[Updated on: Wed, 24 July 2013 19:13 UTC]

Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72124 is a reply to message #72120 ] Wed, 24 July 2013 20:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Well, I do not know anything about Blender, but at least I might be able to find out what is wrong with the pricing and texture.
(As pricing is based on volume, 3 times the price could come about if you increased the wall thickness by a similar factor. )
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72152 is a reply to message #72124 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 06:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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Please do not give up! I am sure you are close, and all the stuff you are learning now will stand you in good stead later.

Let's do this methodically:

1. What upload format are you using?
If .x3d, the units are taken from Blender and any vertex colours will be automatically uploaded. Don't know whether textures will be.
If .stl you should use meters as this is what you have set up in Blender. [EDIT for stupidity] The vertex colours will not be uploaded, and the texture will only be uploaded if it and the .stl are zipped together and the zip file uploaded. You cannot upload colour with .stl format, only with a format such as .x3d. If you use .x3d the texture will only be uploaded if it and the .stl are zipped together and the zip file uploaded. [END EDIT](Note that the texture should initially be created in the same location/folder as where the export file will be saved.) I suspect that since you are being asked for units on upload you may be using .stl, but I could be wrong.

It's worth noting that I just looked at the SW documentation for this and unless I missed the right place it is sorely lacking.


2. How have you coloured your model?
If you have used vertex paint that should work with .x3d;
If you have different shells (Blender Objects) each with a different material colour (i.e. a main orange shell and the lettering separate shells), that should work with .x3d;
If you use a texture, that should work with .stl (and perhaps other formats for all I know) if zipped together.

Personally, I would use one of these methods rather than any combination.

Also I strongly suggest for your peace of mind that you make some very simple tests which you upload to SW to prove the methods and get a good SW render such as:
a) A simple cube vertex painted uploaded with .x3d;
b) Two cubes which intersect (not Booleaned) each coloured with a separate material uploaded with .x3d;
c) A cube with a texture zipped and uploaded in .stl or any other format of your choice.


How much does your model actually cost?
Since you want colour I assume you are looking at Full Coloured Sandstone (FCS). Let's say your model was solid and it equates to a sphere of radius 3cm i.e. a volume of around 113cm3.
This equates to a SW price of about 90 USD. Add 21% for Euro prices (VAT, TVA, MwST)
If the model is hollow (3mm thick) the price should be of the order of 26 USD.


I hope this is helpful, Good luck.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 July 2013 08:03 UTC]

Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72156 is a reply to message #72152 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 07:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Two afterthoughts:
- (@AmLachDesign) I do not believe that texturing is supported in conjunction with the STL format - there is simply no field in that format that
could hold the name of the texture file. For any type of coloring you will need DAE, VRML2 or X3D.
- (@SeSpider) You might get more input from other designers if you restate your problem in either of the "Work in Progress", "3D Design"
or "3D Printing" sections of the forum - I am guessing that not many read the Introductions, much less expect anyone asking for help on a
specific problem there.
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72159 is a reply to message #72156 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 07:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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No you are correct - my mistake, my apologies.

When I uploaded my test with a texture it was an .x3d file.

Sorry for any confusion - not least my own!
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72185 is a reply to message #72159 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 16:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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I've created some tests of my own - self-explanatory I hope:

Material Colour
Vertex Paint

Hope they help...
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72194 is a reply to message #72185 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 17:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar SEspider  is currently offline SEspider
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I was working on my own little test when AmLachDesigns posted his tests. I'll check them out now.

Below is my test with info in the discription. Sadly I forgot to flip the R before exporting, but that's not important. I've made it downloadable and ForSale. I don't expect anyone to buy it of course. I did this so everyone will see the price for such a print.

It's clear to me now that the increase of the wall thickness has made my Aerus logo increase in price. However it still seems how. The test box very small and only a little large then the logo and still at $50USD

-This is a simple test Upload. Each letter (R,B,W,O) represent the color they should be based on the texture (not material).
-The hollow box is set to 7.832cm in Blender.
-All wall thicknesses are set to 3mm.
-Each letter and the box are their own separate mesh and sharing the same texture.
-All meshes were selected together in Blender and exported as a .x3d file.
-The .x3d file and the texture file are originally in the same root folder and then Zipped together and uploaded to Shapeways.
-Feel free to download the file for referance.

https://www.shapeways.com/model/1231449/blender-cube-export- test.html?li=productBox-search

Thank you all for your help and tests.
Oh and yes, the Blender Tutorials on Shapeways is LACKING A GREAT DEAL.

Am I missing something or is there no tutorial for textures?
https://images1.sw-cdn.net/model/picture/674x501_1231449_1161319_1374771272.jpg
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72196 is a reply to message #72194 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 17:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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So where are we now?

On the right road or ....?
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72198 is a reply to message #72194 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 17:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Cannot check your files right now, but at first glance that test cube does appear correct. Pricing seems reasonable as
well (though we all would love to see this get cheaper) - FCS material is $0.75 per cubic centimeter, and your box is
a solid 7.83*7.83*7.83 cm cube from which a 7.23*7.23*7.23 cube is subtracted to leave 3mm walls. (Actually I suspect
that single wall thickness is only 1.5mm, as subtracting a 7.53 cube leads to a solid volume of 53cm3 corresponding to
$40 plus handling - if I subtract the smaller cube to leave 3mm walls all around it is more like $75 ... OTOH it is very hot
here and my brain cells are working alternately)
Re: What am I doing wrong? [message #72200 is a reply to message #72198 ] Thu, 25 July 2013 17:47 UTC Go to previous message
avatar mkroeker is currently online mkroeker
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Yep. the tutorial section does need an overhaul. There will probably be a few relevant tutorials on blendernation however - I think it is no secret that that site's
author "Bart" is Shapeways' "bartv".

 
   
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