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3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67541] Mon, 06 May 2013 15:59 UTC Go to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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Hello

Im looking for some help, as I'm not great at this 3D design, but I can do basic things.
I have created a few Metropolitan Chesham Coach bodies on a 3D program which have come out ok, But I am lacking experience on how to do it properly, I have a number of items that I cannot get right:

- Bogies -28mm wheel base - 7ft - New file found will upload later
- Roof Vents - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwbGZmTGNCS2tOcUk/ edit?usp=sharing
- Buffers - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwbGZmTGNCS2tOcUk/ edit?usp=sharing

All of which I have files of, but when I uploaded to Shapeways... lets just say there's a number of things not right or missing.

If anyone can help me at all I would really appreciate any help, as I am an absolute novice...

Thanks to anyone who reply's
I use Google Sketch up. I have used a few other programs, but cannot get my head around them, with Google Sketch up being quite for me user friendly... for someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

I have added some links to the models I have done so far, I have drawings and photos ect... sadly I have run out of talent, if anyone wishes to work together or help, let me know via PM.

Many Thanks
Matt W


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67660 is a reply to message #67541 ] Wed, 08 May 2013 20:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar barkingdigger  is currently offline barkingdigger
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Hi Matt, your links aren't working - can you post them again?

Regards,
Tom
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67662 is a reply to message #67660 ] Wed, 08 May 2013 21:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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Hi Tom, should be working, I'll update them or post them else where.

New Bogie V2, 28mm Wheel spacing
Known issues, Faces disappearing around the axle boxes, brake blocks still needed to be done.
Sketchup File:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwMVFFeFZxYy1xSms/ edit?usp=sharing - With NEM coupling.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwQ1pLbm4ydTI3OHM/ edit?usp=sharing - No coupling

STL File:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwckRnR1JmcDBEV2s/ edit?usp=sharing - With NEM coupling
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_s5cq6YuUSwQUdDOVNMMDdEZEE/ edit?usp=sharing - With out NEM


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67664 is a reply to message #67662 ] Wed, 08 May 2013 22:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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You have many extra lines that are creating extra faces. delete all extra lines that are not required.
They are showing up as inverted normals 'inside out'. The red faces are facing the wrong way.
There are many faces that are just a 'skin' no thickness. Netfabb sees these as holes 'yellow outline' and tries to fill them, usually not what is wanted.

You need to make sure that the model is manifold / watertight, in other words you could fill the interior with water without any leaks.

index.php?t=getfile&id=32044&private=0


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67684 is a reply to message #67664 ] Thu, 09 May 2013 07:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar barkingdigger  is currently offline barkingdigger
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Jacant beat me to it! There are lots of "inverted" triangles (where the defined "outward" face actually points into the model) that need fixed. Try getting Netfabb Studio Basic (the free version of Netfabb) and see this tutorial for info: http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/how_to_use_meshlab_and_ne tfabb.

Good luck, and let us know how you get on!

Tom
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67736 is a reply to message #67684 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 00:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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Thank you for the responses... I have had a look at the program suggested... one small problem the item is so small... I can't exactly see what Im supposed to be doing with it... I try zoom in on the part but... it will not get any bigger.
I sort of understand what you guys are saying... but again..i may not do... I don't really understand to much about this at all... especially when I cannot see what I'm or the program is repairing.. I'm starting to think maybe its a bit beyond me...


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67750 is a reply to message #67736 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 03:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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From Sketchup, I exported as STL using "Feet" as the units.

I loaded the model into Netfabb Basic and multiplied by 25.4.. still was small so I multiplied by 10.
From there, I picked "Repair", closed all the holes, and clicked "Fix Inverted Triangles".

Export the STL back out, and upload to cloud.netfabb.com - that fixed the rest of the issues.

I probably have the size incorrect.. you can use Netfabb Basic to scale it up/down to get it right.

====
The 'wings' on the center post are likely not going to survive installation.
If you print this in WSF, maybe, but if you print it in FUD, those flanges will snap off - FUD can be brittle when flexed much.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67751 is a reply to message #67750 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 04:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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Also.. here's a set of roof vents.
I drew these from scratch. They keep the 'spirit' of the original but avoid the thin wall problem.

  • Attachment: RoofVents.stl
    (Size: 804.18KB, Downloaded 22 time(s))


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67767 is a reply to message #67751 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 10:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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Stoneysmith, I am forever in debt to you... thank you, I uploaded the file of the bogie in to the program to have a look... There's a strange thing can't explain it with the face... I'm not sure what its doing, either its, going inwards or something i'm not clear... plus several bits are missing on the model... I guess the parts it didn't like.

Springs are just one mass, when they were stepped, before...

Roof vents are great, I just can't get them the right size, as I don't understand the scaling system at all on this program.

  • Attachment: clip.png
    (Size: 44.44KB, Downloaded 40 time(s))

[Updated on: Fri, 10 May 2013 10:06 UTC]


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67768 is a reply to message #67767 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 10:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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This is the missing bits of the dampers.. should be a shaft connecting the upper and lower part.
Plus on the opposite side missing the entire lower section.

I think Im in a bit over my head on this.. its not going to work.


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67769 is a reply to message #67767 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 10:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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Although Stony has repaired your file. Netfabb will basically just fill the holes. As I said before sometimes that is not the answer, because invariably it will delete some parts. The model by the way was scaled by 1000 in Netfabb . It must be the way Sketchup exported the model.
You really need to fix this in Sketchup.
Use the intersect faces command to join two objects together properly.
Select objects you want to join, right click, intersect faces with model or with selection.
You then need to delete all of the extra internal faces and lines that are not required.
If you had created the objects as solids. You can join them together by using the Tools - Outer Shell command. This is known as a 'Boolean' join, which will automatically delete all of the internal lines and faces.
Here is a SKP file to show what I mean. Use the View - Face Style - Xay to see the effect.

  • Attachment: Untitled.skp
    (Size: 85.03KB, Downloaded 15 time(s))


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67771 is a reply to message #67769 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 11:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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Here is the link for the plugin. -3D Print Visualization Style: A visual style that highlights problem areas in a model.
http://www.cadspan.com/tools


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67783 is a reply to message #67771 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 16:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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Well Ive given it one last go and yeah... not working out very well... I thank you for you guys help.. but problem is... i don't know really, even following instruction its not working right...

So I'll call it quits for now, as originally I started this as a group project... and then I got left with it... not really knowing what I was doing, I was only supposed to do the research and advising, and I have no skills in this at all... I felt like I had to build something as people were interested... infact a list of 30 people had names down to want a set when complete... sadly will have to let them down as its beyond me.

Thanks anyway.


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67784 is a reply to message #67783 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 16:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar svenvanderhart  is currently offline svenvanderhart
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What? You're giving up?! That's one thing you can't do with creating 3d objects. You can only learn by making mistakes and spending a lot of time on it. Many times it's frustrating, but you'll get there. I've been there!


http://tramworks.nl
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67785 is a reply to message #67784 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 16:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mattwicksbluebell  is currently offline mattwicksbluebell
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I'm calling it quits as I don't know anything about 3D design... That initially wasn't my role, I know nothing about it. I cannot do any more as I don't know any more than drawing a few lines and pulling a shape out... that's it. I do not know enough to complete it.. as I do not understand anything being said to me.

So I will leave it, until I have the time, and find a group of people who know more than I do that will work with me, as that what it originally was.


Matt Wickham http://bluebell-railway.webs.com/index.htm
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67786 is a reply to message #67785 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 16:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar svenvanderhart  is currently offline svenvanderhart
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I think your design was actually pretty good. Seems like you have a goal, but no interest in learning it? Seen you have a connection with Bluebell, if you're near London we can meet up so I can help you explaining things. I'm not a super expert, but I'm further than you. Wink


http://tramworks.nl
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67788 is a reply to message #67785 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 17:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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You are doing very well for a novice, to create this model.
You can't give up now. Have a look at the screen shot. Just by deleting the extra lines and reversing some of the faces it is looking good.
One of the areas in red is the part that is giving the most trouble. I would try to draw this part again. Then draw the 'tubes' to intersect the part.
I will send you the part repaired file by PM.

index.php?t=getfile&id=32243&private=0


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67789 is a reply to message #67788 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 17:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar barkingdigger  is currently offline barkingdigger
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Hi Jacant, the way I see it all four "quarters" of the bogie frame are the same - just mirrored images - so if you can fix the details around just one then it can be mirrored/copied and joined up to make the whole thing. (Each of the journal/spring assemblies in each corner should be identical.) I'd be tempted to cut the model into four parts and discard three of them before fixing the fourth - reducing the overall workload... (But as I don't do Sketchup I'd have to rebuild it in ACAD solids.)
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67792 is a reply to message #67789 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 17:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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I know Acad more than Sketchup.
I think but not sure, that is were the problem started.
mattwicksbluebell looks as though he has mirrored one quarter of the length you see, which created half the model, then mirrored it again to get the full length.
Sketchup has mirrored everything including the faces making them inside out.


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67795 is a reply to message #67783 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 18:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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mattwicksbluebell wrote on Fri, 10 May 2013 16:18

Well Ive given it one last go and yeah... not working out very well... I thank you for you guys help.. but problem is... i don't know really, even following instruction its not working right...

So I'll call it quits for now.


Never give up.. there's plenty of folks around here willing to assist.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67801 is a reply to message #67795 ] Fri, 10 May 2013 20:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JACANT  is currently offline JACANT
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I think I have found the anomaly. 'Hidden Geometry'
The screen shot is after I deleted all of the rogue faces; the hidden geometry was left behind.
When I tried to create new faces the lines and faces kept attaching to the hidden lines.

index.php?t=getfile&id=32281&private=0


jacantdesign@gmail.com
Re: 3D model Train coaches in need of help / assistance. OO / 4mm scale [message #67823 is a reply to message #67785 ] Sat, 11 May 2013 12:48 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Hi Matt,

Do you still need a hand with the model?

Here's the kind of things I do.
http://www.stop4stuff.com/shapeways/images/parts-selection.JPG

Paul



[Updated on: Sat, 11 May 2013 12:49 UTC]


 
   
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