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Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64486] Wed, 20 March 2013 15:27 UTC Go to next message
avatar s_bas  is currently offline s_bas
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Hi, does anyone have any experience with 3D printing of optical parts (for instance prism) by Shapeways?

As I know, for optical parts it must be a proper material and proper surfaces: of accurate shape and well polished. As far as the material goes, it seems like the Shapeways' Fine Detail Plastic, transparent should be good. (Definitively, its refraction index is to be taken into consideration). What interests me is the surface quality: if 3D printing used here provides surface smooth enough for that material?

Your advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
s_bas
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64488 is a reply to message #64486 ] Wed, 20 March 2013 15:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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The most translucent is Shapeways Frosted Ultra Detail - but even that will take loads of post-processing work (polishing) to get decent optical qualities.

Paul

[Updated on: Wed, 20 March 2013 15:41 UTC]

Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64506 is a reply to message #64488 ] Wed, 20 March 2013 18:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar FabMeJewelry  is currently offline FabMeJewelry
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This lens is a good example of what is possible with the transparent detail material Smile


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Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64609 is a reply to message #64506 ] Thu, 21 March 2013 17:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar s_bas  is currently offline s_bas
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Does anyone know a 3D printing service which offers a higher printing resolution so to allow optical quality surfaces ?

If interested, this is a much referred to article on printed Optics (they used there own printer I assume):

http://www.disneyresearch.com/project/printed-optics/
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64610 is a reply to message #64486 ] Thu, 21 March 2013 17:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I believe they used similar printers and materials to our FUD and FD prints.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64614 is a reply to message #64610 ] Thu, 21 March 2013 18:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Thu, 21 March 2013 17:57

I believe they used similar printers and materials to our FUD and FD prints.

Fine Detail Plastic / Transparent Detail, Objet Eden 260V.
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64667 is a reply to message #64610 ] Fri, 22 March 2013 14:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar s_bas  is currently offline s_bas
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Thanks Michael,
In this case why Disney Research people were able to get the optical quality surfaces and we can not get it from Shapeways?

Disney Research used print resolution 600 dpi. I think the resolution as high just is not utilized in the Shapeways printing. If it is so then is it possible to provide the option of high resolution to Shapeways users ?
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64670 is a reply to message #64667 ] Fri, 22 March 2013 15:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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600dpi is still 0.04mm steps no matter where you look.

Shapeways FUD is 0.033 steps, and that still needs polishing to acheive any optical quality.

Basically what you have is the equivalent of an injet printer but in 3D, only so many dots can be laid down in one area, there is no infinite grading of slopes or curves - to get to those you need to get the nearest surface you can with 3D priting technologly and then add some elbow grease.

Paul

[Updated on: Fri, 22 March 2013 15:24 UTC]

Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64674 is a reply to message #64667 ] Fri, 22 March 2013 16:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AmLachDesigns  is currently offline AmLachDesigns
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s_bas wrote on Fri, 22 March 2013 14:52

Thanks Michael,
In this case why Disney Research people were able to get the optical quality surfaces and we can not get it from Shapeways?

Disney Research used print resolution 600 dpi. I think the resolution as high just is not utilized in the Shapeways printing. If it is so then is it possible to provide the option of high resolution to Shapeways users ?



From the source that you cite (my bold):

Quote:

In this work we used an Objet Eden260V 3D printer and Objet VeroClear transparent material to fabricate optical elements. VeroClear has similar optical properties to Poly(methyl methacrylate) (PMMA), commonly known as plexiglasTM, with a refractive index of 1.47 (650nm light source). Several other manufacturers also provide similar transparent materials, including DSM Somos' Watershed XC 11122 and 3D Systems' Accura ClearVue.


And (my bold):

Quote:

The Objet Eden260V has a print resolution of 600 dpi (42 microns) that is significantly higher than fused deposition modeling (FDM) 3D printers (e.g. Stratasys Dimension, MakerBot, or RepRap) that are typically around 100 dpi (254 microns). High resolution printing allows the creation of visibly smooth models without internal gaps. Model surfaces can be further enhanced with a manual finishing process to achieve optical clarity. This process consists of removing support material, sanding the surfaces with incrementally finer sandpaper, and then buffing.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 March 2013 16:03 UTC]

Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64740 is a reply to message #64674 ] Sun, 24 March 2013 04:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar UniverseBecoming  is currently offline UniverseBecoming
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The cool thing about 3D printing, among the other cool things, is that you could design and 3D print a custom polishing machine for each lens you want to 3D print and polish. Very Happy






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Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64791 is a reply to message #64740 ] Mon, 25 March 2013 03:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar s_bas  is currently offline s_bas
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Thank you all, it was quite educating.

So, the only option is a post-processing polishing. Unfortunately, it would not work in my case: the part is a complicated optical prism and some faces of it are not reachable for polishing.
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64818 is a reply to message #64791 ] Mon, 25 March 2013 12:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar leorolph  is currently offline leorolph
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imaterialise do a transparent resin that looks perfectly clear. Im not sure i should be mentioning another 3d printing service here but competition can only make for a better service in the end. though its not cheap. Twisted Evil
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64823 is a reply to message #64818 ] Mon, 25 March 2013 13:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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leo rolph wrote on Mon, 25 March 2013 12:58

imaterialise do a transparent resin that looks perfectly clear. Im not sure i should be mentioning another 3d printing service here but competition can only make for a better service in the end. though its not cheap. Twisted Evil

Their transparent resin is the same as ours. The price listed for their transparent resin is not for perfectly clear, at least last I checked. To get it perfectly clear, requires post production process. Cleaning and polishing. And I believe a chemical to take the yellow out of the transparent resin.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Optical parts with 3D printing? [message #64871 is a reply to message #64823 ] Mon, 25 March 2013 20:31 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Mon, 25 March 2013 13:24

leo rolph wrote on Mon, 25 March 2013 12:58

imaterialise do a transparent resin that looks perfectly clear. Im not sure i should be mentioning another 3d printing service here but competition can only make for a better service in the end. though its not cheap. Twisted Evil

Their transparent resin is the same as ours. The price listed for their transparent resin is not for perfectly clear, at least last I checked. To get it perfectly clear, requires post production process. Cleaning and polishing. And I believe a chemical to take the yellow out of the transparent resin.

Really the same? So Shapeways finally got bath-based machines?
The other company

The process takes place in a large tank, and begins when a layer of liquid polymer is spread over a platform. This machine then uses a computer controlled laser to draw the first layer onto the surface of a liquid polymer, which hardens where struck by the laser. The model is then lowered and the next layer is then drawn directly on top of the previous one. This is repeated until the model is finished. In this way, layer by layer, an object is "drawn" in the liquid by the beam, with the layers being consolidated throughout the process.

On the other hand, maybe not at all, theirs is blueish.
The other company

When your model is solid with a thickness greater than 2 cm, the printed part has a bluish shine.

 
   
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