| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #59200 is a reply to message #59196 ] Tue, 25 December 2012 21:01 UTC |
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Nah, the only 'anti-Canadian' sentiment i have is that you guys tend to be pretty lucky with lots of services being available to you guys only because you're right next to the US, whilst being neither from an economical or population based point of view more significant than lots and lots of other countries. Still, I have friends who come from Canada, so I can hardly call it an anti-Canadian sentiment... it just felt over the top the way some comments here were implying that *because* you were in Canada you somehow were more important than other countries... still I didn't mean that as negative as you took it. (Btw, @your pre last post, I never mentioned anything about 'per area', I was simply talking about population... when you get to population per area Canada would probably disappear  just realized that when reading back your posts carefully)
And with unfair I meant that the vast majority who didn't encounter any problems won't ever post here, so it becomes pretty one sided. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but if someone stumbles upon this thread (like me) without any prior knowledge it seems like both shapeways and UPS are big evils. Personally I even started getting a pretty negative image of UPS till I spoke with that relative of mine I mentioned and found out that the troubles you guys describe happen all over the world with lots of different postal services... and that if you dig around in all the paperwork the postal services provide you can normally also figure out what you can exactly expect... though the postal services tend to be so huge that it's pretty hard (if not impossible) to get a global overview. Either way, my point is, this discussion was pretty one sided no matter how you turn it.
Either way, we understand eachother probably and I too am happy to see that shapeways is looking into more shipping options, but ach, why in the world did I even get into this forum topic .
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62190 is a reply to message #55350 ] Sat, 16 February 2013 18:09 UTC |
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UPS is the best shipper here in the states. USPS destroys everything it touches and frequently delivers late. Fed Ex doesn't like to deliver, ever. The drivers actually walk up to the door with the sticker and no package. I had one cuss at me when I walked out, because he had to go back to the truck and get the package. I've even had them put the sticker on the outer glass door when they could clearly see I was inside.
USPS rejects all claims outright. I ship glass domes where I work, and UPS is the only company that actually honors claims when there is breakage. USPS will deny the claim, even if the packaging is acceptable by UPS standards. The funny thing is, UPS almost never breaks them, maybe 1 in 100. USPS is more like 1 in 5.
[Updated on: Sat, 16 February 2013 18:09 UTC]
http://fracturedmesh.blogspot.com/ - my 3d modeling blog
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62192 is a reply to message #62190 ] Sat, 16 February 2013 18:15 UTC |
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Some very good points, Twopounder, but clearly we need to have a choice. Whereas I likely wouldn't use USPS to have a ceramic item delivered to me I would have no problem with most of the acrylics/nylons (unless the design made it inherently fragile).
Glenn
Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62193 is a reply to message #62190 ] Sat, 16 February 2013 18:15 UTC |
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See, this is exactly why we need options. If UPS works for you, you should be able to use it, and if it doesn't, you shouldn't be forced to use it. Maybe there are different standards in the States than in Canada for UPS drivers - a week or two ago I actually saw the driver THROW the package at my door FROM HIS TRUCK, as in, without even getting out. He's lucky I wasn't dressed or I would have run out there to give him a piece of my mind.
I don't think anyone is asking for UPS to stop being an option - we just want other options as well. Personally, I've never had anything come damaged or mishandled with USPS / Canada Post, though that's just me.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62241 is a reply to message #62193 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02 UTC |
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This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.
Earl Grey, hot.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62243 is a reply to message #62241 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 16:47 UTC |
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I agree that options are good. Even the drivers can make a difference in which shipping company you prefer.
| Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02 |
This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.
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It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.
http://fracturedmesh.blogspot.com/ - my 3d modeling blog
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62244 is a reply to message #62243 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 16:53 UTC |
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| Twopounder wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:47 |
I agree that options are good. Even the drivers can make a difference in which shipping company you prefer.
| Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02 |
This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.
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It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.
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My packages are always shipped from New York State in the U.S., not Denmark.
And I agree it's not an easy fix, and I'm happy to wait for them to solve it - however, it should be a priority. This isn't a minor inconvenience, it's a big problem. They said they're working on it and that's great, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet or heard anything about it since then. It would be nice to be kept updated on what they're doing to solve this issue.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62250 is a reply to message #62244 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 19:28 UTC |
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| PeregrineStudios wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:53 |
| Twopounder wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:47 |
I agree that options are good. Even the drivers can make a difference in which shipping company you prefer.
| Roy_Stevens wrote on Sun, 17 February 2013 16:02 |
This has been a heated discussion with no reply from an official Shapeways representative. I have a number of potential customers in Canada that won't order from me because of the brokerage charges UPS tacks onto their shipments across the northern border. It seems like a simple thing to fix but I guess that Shapeways doesn't think that 34 million potential customers separated from us by an arbitrary political division shouldn't enjoy this service.
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It's not a political division, and Shapeways has responded in this thread. They're working on it, but it's not a simple fix. I doubt there are many USPS offices in Denmark, and there may be no DHL or Fed Ex shipping locations either. Remember that they are limited to the options available in their own country as well. If they only have one or two choices, and those companies only hand off to UPS, then their hands are tied.
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My packages are always shipped from New York State in the U.S., not Denmark.
And I agree it's not an easy fix, and I'm happy to wait for them to solve it - however, it should be a priority. This isn't a minor inconvenience, it's a big problem. They said they're working on it and that's great, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet or heard anything about it since then. It would be nice to be kept updated on what they're doing to solve this issue.
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You're assuming there is something to post or update about. This could well be a priority for them, but there are logistical problems that could take months to sort out. They might be programming a system to select carriers on check out, but this requires building off the existing UPS/USPS/DHL/Fed Ex API. They also have a development road map they need to follow. Even if this is a priority, they can't drop everything and work on it. Things don't get done when you take that approach, so it gets added to the list and will be addressed when it's turn comes up.
http://fracturedmesh.blogspot.com/ - my 3d modeling blog
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62266 is a reply to message #62250 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 23:10 UTC |
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Another item to consider is the cost(s) in some new shipper. I took a quick look on USPS.com this morning and I saw no option for getting a box to Canada for less than $30. I assumed that I picked the wrong options, but that's not the point. USPS is losing money, raising rates, and cutting services every day. By signing a bulk-ship deal with UPS, they got a good price. Breaking that agreement is going to raise the rate, and it's likely to go UP to near whatever the highest priced shipper currently charges.
It is currently difficult enough for Shapeways to deal with keeping all the peices of your order together from separate sub-vendors. Adding a multitude of shipper choices on top of that is going to complicate their internal processes. I can see it requiring nearly double the staff to stay on top of what package goes where.
I know I know, someone is going to declare "it can be done for 'nothing' with software", but that's not entirely accurate. I write software every day. There is always some portion of the operation that requires and depends upon humans.
Yes, I have heard the horror stories, and I feel bad that such things have happened. All that I'm saying here is:
1) Please be patient, it will take time for them to work this out, and I'm not talking days.. it could be many months yet before this gets fixed.
2) Be careful what you ask for. This flexibility may come at a price we're not willing to pay.
Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #62270 is a reply to message #62266 ] Sun, 17 February 2013 23:31 UTC |
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Actually where we will "pay" is in delivery times - USPS being much slower than UPS especially when coming across the border. And, yes, you did pick the wrong choice. I have regularly purchased items from the US and a regular supplier charges $5.80. No robbery at my front door. Yes, I have to wait a lot longer, but if I'm not in a hurry, so what?
Glenn
Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #63324 is a reply to message #55350 ] Wed, 06 March 2013 02:05 UTC |
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My 2 Canadian cents worth ...
I understand that UPS has an excellent reputation in the US, however, it is another story up here.
The so called brokerage fees are an quasi legal charge for what the Post office does for free.
I have never had a problem having things sent USPS or any European postal service. I pay for my shipping and I get my package,
UPS have been running this scam for years and I refuse to pay it! And it is arbitrary.
The first package from Shapeways arrived quickly, no problems and NO extra charges. Now, for my $31.00 HP o/400 they are demanding $15.00 on top of the shipping I have already paid.
Must I cancel all my future orders until Shapeways stops usuing UPS?
Gord
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #63946 is a reply to message #63324 ] Wed, 13 March 2013 01:14 UTC |
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They've done it again - tracking numbers show 'Delivered', but I was downstairs waiting all day. UPS truck didn't even show up on the street. Contacted Shapeways support, asked them to put a tracer on it (since apparently they want the shipper to do that, not the receiver). Not looking forward to potentially being forced to re-order my items because UPS' incompetence misplaced them. Hopefully I won't have to pay again if that's the case!
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #64849 is a reply to message #55350 ] Mon, 25 March 2013 16:29 UTC |
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This has been an ongoing concern since Shapeways opened up shop. I realise it must be difficult to have to implement another shipping option, HOWEVER, I was in contact with another 3DP company in the US recently and told them that since they only use UPS I would not be using their service. About three weeks later management sent me an email saying that they can now ship via US postal service...
Glenn
Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #64929 is a reply to message #64849 ] Tue, 26 March 2013 18:50 UTC |
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Hi guys,
I just wanted to pop in here and let you know that we hear and share your concerns about shipping options, and about shipping to Canada.
We understand that for some of you the (lack of) shipping options and process can be quite frustrating, and wanted to let you know that we hear your concerns despite not being able to bring "fix dates" to the table as part of the good news just yet.
That said, we have identified a few possible solutions to both problem areas. We do not have an exact timeframe for when we can put them into place as there are a few things with a higher priority under the banner of "Customer Happiness" right now such as fixing/improving the "rejections" process.
Again, we apologize for any frustration and inconvenience and ask that you be patient with us until we are able to resolve said frustrations.
Best,
[Updated on: Tue, 26 March 2013 18:52 UTC]
Christopher Carter
Senior Product Manager, Shapeways
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #64932 is a reply to message #64929 ] Tue, 26 March 2013 19:31 UTC |
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Hey,
I just wanted to let you know that I definitely appreciate being kept in the loop like this. To me it's the surest sign that the problem is indeed being looked at, as opposed to just P.R. jargon. I definitely can understand that there are issues you want to work out before this one, and I'm just looking forward to when you have time to fix this one 
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #65496 is a reply to message #64849 ] Thu, 04 April 2013 19:36 UTC |
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So in addition to not having my Shapeways Handley-Page 0/400 as I refused to pay the UPS's brokerage fees, UPS have now sent me a bill for the fees!
Outrageous! And I still don't have my model!
I don't see myself ordering from Shapeways again until they stop using UPS in Canada.
I thought I would post here before I phone the b@#$%rds and scream at them.
Gordon Parker
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #65943 is a reply to message #55350 ] Thu, 11 April 2013 02:58 UTC |
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Quite simply I have stopped using shapeway.
It was great while it lasted, and while I may sell things on here, I simply refuse to buy anything anymore.
UPS with their garbage brokerage fees just ruined it.
Nothing like getting a bill for another $25 in brokerage 3 weeks after the item arrived (which only cost $25 to start).
The last thread was from 2011, and you guys talk about working on it and it may take months? It has been years!
It is time for some REAL progress or wait until a location/competitor opens up in Canada.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #65955 is a reply to message #65943 ] Thu, 11 April 2013 03:39 UTC |
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I've stopped buying from Shapeways as well. I would have around 10 models in my cart and just change my mind at the last minute because of the UPS issue. I have suggested reship.com, but I can't help feeling that it should have to be this way: to have the customer word out a third party shipper to avoid fees (and also have it delivered about 2 weeks after UPS delivers it to the reship address).
I have ordered from other places where they use primarily UPS, BUT use USPS for other countries. I am sure there are complication regarding multiple shippers, but I think losing customers is the biggest complication of all 
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67487 is a reply to message #55350 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 15:29 UTC |
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Got to come to Shapeways defense here, I live in the UK, my models come from Eindhoven that involves being picked up by truck in Eindohven, Holland and taken to their depot, transferred on to another truck to Koeln in Germany, transferred on to a plane to Castle Donnington UK, transferred on to a truck to Leeds UK, transferred on to a truck to be delivered to me and all in about 18 hours, the price is probably slightly higher than other methods of post. UPS here in the UK will not just leave it on the doorstep.
I buy a lot of stuff from the USA, if you think UPS is expensive you want to look at what USPS charges to post to Europe. Yes I have to pay brokerage fees and it can be very frustrating [£1.80 VAT £10.00 brokerage fee] so it happens everywhere and it is not the carriers fault but your governments rules about you buying from overseas.
There are swings and roundabouts for everybody and I think not one solution fits everybody so shapeways do their best for an all found compromise.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67489 is a reply to message #67487 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 15:33 UTC |
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While I do agree that UPS IS the best option for some, I need to reiterate: Brokerage fees have NOTHING to do with the government. They are NOT levied or charged by the government. If I order the exact same thing and ship it with USPS or FedEx, there is NO brokerage fee. UPS' brokerage fees are levied BY UPS themselves, and nobody else.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67491 is a reply to message #67489 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 16:35 UTC |
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Sorry I was maybe a bit vague, but I did not say the government set brokerage fees, what I should maybe have said clearer was that your government DOES set any import duty, VAT or whatever tax rates apply to your country and any carrier not collecting that tax / duty is not conforming to the laws of your country and luckily for us some do not apply the laws rigidly.
Would you do work for somebody else and not expect recompense for doing it? Why should UPS collect taxes and forward them to the government at their expense. I suppose they could drop the brokerage fee and just up the shipping rate for everybody to cover the cost of tax collection.
As I said unfortunately there is no one solution for everybody and in Shapeways case UPS works for me, heaven forbid if I had to trust delivery to our Royal Mail, I cant trust them to deliver a letter to the other side of town never mind receiving a parcel from a foreign country.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67492 is a reply to message #67491 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 16:42 UTC |
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The primary issue people have with UPS is the brokerage fee. VAT, import tax etc. is fine. Nobody here is arguing against paying import duties. The reason we want to ship with someone other than UPS is because we specifically don't want the BROKERAGE fees, which are BY FAR more expensive than any VAT ever could be. Generally speaking, for every $2 you import, UPS charges you $1 in brokerage! Paying half the total cost of the package all over again just to get it is absolutely unacceptable, especially considering that - again - it isn't levied by the government, it's just slapped on by UPS. The ridiculous expense of importing anything over $20 is 100% the fault of UPS.
I also need to reiterate, nobody is suggesting we GET RID of the option to ship using UPS. The problem we have is that right now it is the ONLY option. It's either UPS or nothing. We want options for those of us who simply can't use UPS, that's all.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67493 is a reply to message #67491 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 16:49 UTC |
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Well, of course the parcel carrier should be compensated for clearing customs. The problem is everytime the brokerage fee is different. I can order the same item twice from shapeway, shipped to Canada from US by UPS, the brokerage fee is different each time. Looking at the UPS web page, one can never quite figure out what the brokerage fee is ahead of time. It almost feels like a random number made up by the person doing the delivery.
Another point: they don't accept cash for brokerage fee. Either pay with cheque or credit card. With credit card, it's not swiped or cleared in front of you. They write your credit card number down and a few days (one time, weeks later), it shows up on your credit card bill. The whole thing just feels very insecure.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Give us more than 1 shipping option. For people happy with UPS, keep using it. I think those of us in Canada complaining just want another option besides UPS. I'll take FedEx or USPs over UPS any day.
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| Re: It's Time to Stop Using UPS [message #67496 is a reply to message #55363 ] Sun, 05 May 2013 18:12 UTC |
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| stonysmith wrote on Mon, 15 October 2012 01:40 |
Yes, I feel your pain.. UPS is not my favorite either, but I do know that it's difficult for a multi-national company to get good shipping rates to all locations.
For them to have two separate shippers, I can imagine that the labor in their distribution process has to at least increase by 50%.
Give them time.. they'll work out something.
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I do not believe you, for a multi-national company like Mouser a electronic company can offer: UPS, FedEx and DHL to good price to, so that thing about that will be expansive do I not believe.
I can tell you that here in Sweden we most be at home under working time if we not want to have problem with the delivery. If we have the luck to have the phone number to the driver at UPS, it will only help a little for them most drive out and see a locked door. After this I can call the driver the day after to tell him that I are at work and maybe can take the box at work or my unemployed friend can take the shapeways box instead of my.
I prefer this:
1; The nation post-office, I can go over AFTER work and get my box.
2; UPS, as long I have the phone number.
3; DHL
4; Worst case FedEx, really hard to have to deal with.
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