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Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55162] Wed, 10 October 2012 21:19 UTC Go to next message
avatar alienology  is currently offline alienology
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Hi,

It's great to have polished colored WSF.

So, I am reading in this new e-mail that:

"Most excitingly, all Colored Strong & Flexible products will now be polished first. By polishing and then dying, 3D prints look and feel like final products so the quality rivals what you can find in a store. "

OK - but will you keep an option to still have colored objects that are NOT polished first?
I would need that option for some of my bracelets. I actually like how non polished feels for that particular purpose.

Can you keep that option? Just as it was - non polished but colored?

TNX,
Igor


[Updated on: Thu, 11 October 2012 14:48 UTC] by Moderator

Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55163 is a reply to message #55162 ] Wed, 10 October 2012 22:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Hi Igor,

Unfortunately not. We are moving towards more consumer level materials and based on feedback from makers and shoppers alike, most people prefer the polished objects.

We are doing this to increase the desirability of your products and hopefully make them more appealing for sale!

You can still do black and white in unpolished for now.

Best,
Natalia

[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 22:29 UTC]


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Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55166 is a reply to message #55163 ] Wed, 10 October 2012 23:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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My customers would certainly not like polished railway carriage underframes. You seem to be making assumptions based on only part of the market.


Bill Bedford
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55176 is a reply to message #55166 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 08:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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My guess is that the real message behind the marketing-speak is that shapeways found
it too much hassle to get the vivid and even dyeing of finely detailed models right.

The tumble grinder probably has the additional advantage of removing the last few bits of
loose material that survived the normal cleaning. Based on Murphy's principle, I would expect
those to normally come off after dyeing, leaving white specks.

With black dye, one can probably just chuck such a part back into the soup - it can't get
blacker than black anyway. (Same goes for models where recessed parts got less than
their share of the dye.) With red and blue, repeated dyeing would probably make them too
dark, or at least come out uneven. I wonder how such problematic cases are handled now -
hope the customer accepts it as is, hand-paint over the spots, or even reprint behind the scenes ?
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55182 is a reply to message #55176 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 11:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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Maybe, but this bit :-
Quote:

You can still do black and white in unpolished for now.
(my italics)

Suggests that SW wants to limit the use of unpolished SF. If this is true than there will be a knock-on effect on the maximum size they will allow in SF.


Bill Bedford
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55183 is a reply to message #55182 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 11:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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AFAIK, maximum size of polished models is limited by the size of the polishing tumbler,
not by the size of the printer. I do not see a viable business model in printing only
small, simple shapes, so I would hope that the current decision hinges on the dyeing
process alone.
If they switch to some less rustic polishing process in the future, one that is also safe
for fragile details, most customers will probably be content with polished objects.
(Such a decision would adversely affect only those cases where rough surfaces are
actually desired for mechanic or artistic purposes (?)
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55190 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 14:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Hi Everyone,

Just to clarify some concerns you have raised:

Bill, not to worry! You will still be able to order black and white in unpolished.

As mkroeker noticed, we have had consistency issues with the colors in the past so are improving the color palette to be consistent and vibrant.

Black and White will NOT be affected. You will still be able to order black and white in unpolished. We are investigating ways to add black polished as well in the future.

We do want to enable you to make bigger polished color models and working hard to make this happen as quickly as possible.

We really appreciate all your feedback, please keep sharing any questions or concerns you have

Best,
Natalia

[Updated on: Thu, 11 October 2012 14:43 UTC]


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Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55194 is a reply to message #55190 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 15:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey All,

Just wanted to add that the new dying process is MUCH more sophisticated and gives a much more even coating.

We are expecting to see greater consistency both in coverage on each model, and across batches.

The dye itself has two components, one that soaks into the 3D printed nylon structure, and one that coats the surface, giving a much better, even finish.

The 3D printer we will be using for the new colors has a higher resolution then the current colors.

This means that tolerances will be tighter, finer layers and better resolution.

Overall it is a massive improvement to the current colors that I am personally REALLY happy to see.

Please do keep the feedback coming, especially when you have some new color prints to see and feel..

We have more on the way...



Duann Scott,
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55195 is a reply to message #55194 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 16:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tomrust  is currently offline tomrust
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Black polished would be a big plus. Ok, how do we order the new colors, blue & hot pink? This i gotta see.
also, when we order red or purple now, will we get the polished?
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55196 is a reply to message #55195 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 16:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Well, the announcement stated "Starting October 17, you and your customers will be able to order..."
So what you order now will have to be tickled pink, what you order in a week will be pickled in ink.

Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55200 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 16:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Laughing


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Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55208 is a reply to message #55200 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 17:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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Is the new pricing info correct? The price of any dyed polished model is only 25 cents more than a white, polished model? That is a lot cheaper than the extra cost of the old dyeing process (which had a higher per cc cost).
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55211 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 17:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Yes indeed the pricing is correct

Because we are moving the process in house, we are able to make it cheaper for you. Smile

(Overall, cheaper. To be precise, very small models under 2cc will be a tiny bit more expensive due to startup cost)


Shapeways Community Manager
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55212 is a reply to message #55194 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 18:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Dragoman  is currently offline Dragoman
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duann wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 15:01


The 3D printer we will be using for the new colors has a higher resolution then the current colors.

This means that tolerances will be tighter, finer layers and better resolution.



Interesting.
Does that mean we could get items at WSF prices with better resolution? Will that printer be available for unpolished items?

Greetings
Dragoman
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55213 is a reply to message #55212 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 18:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Dragoman, we are already using this 3D Printer for white nylon, both polished and not. (WSF PWSF)

It is only the colored nylons that are currently in the lower resolution machine.



Duann Scott,
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55227 is a reply to message #55194 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 20:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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duann wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 15:01

Just wanted to add that the new dying process is MUCH more sophisticated and gives a much more even coating.
We are expecting to see greater consistency both in coverage on each model, and across batches.
The dye itself has two components, one that soaks into the 3D printed nylon structure, and one that coats the surface, giving a much better, even finish.


That is great, I am interested to hear more details on the new dyeing process! Have you experimented with dying the pieces in a pressure cooker? I would think increasing the pressure would help infuse the parts with dye.

I do most of the dyeing myself, but if the new process is good I may have to switch. The one remaining thing I would find useful is to dye parts of a single model different colors ...

[Updated on: Thu, 11 October 2012 20:14 UTC]

Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55228 is a reply to message #55227 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 20:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hi gibell

It is not with a pressure cooker, that sound interesting though, similar to the way in which our elasto was impregnated.

multiple colors would be tricky for us at our volume..



Duann Scott,
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55231 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 11 October 2012 21:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Hey Guys,

Just to let you know, the next Shapeways Live is scheduled for: Monday October 15th 8pm UTC (4pm EST for those in the US)

I think we'll go back to UStream for this one, so more people can participate and we're not limited to 10.

We can chat about the new colors we're introducing and answer any questions.

Looking forward to seeing you all again!

Natalia


Shapeways Community Manager
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55493 is a reply to message #55231 ] Wed, 17 October 2012 14:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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OK, it is October 17th, but I don't see the new colors??? Rolling Eyes
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55503 is a reply to message #55493 ] Wed, 17 October 2012 16:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Be patient, let the software guys change color first Very Happy
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55526 is a reply to message #55162 ] Wed, 17 October 2012 18:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar natalia  is currently offline natalia
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Perfect answer...we are indeed waiting for today's release to go live first, so you can see the new colors in the material picker...

Stay tuned, it's not far away!

Best,
Natalia


Shapeways Community Manager
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55539 is a reply to message #55162 ] Wed, 17 October 2012 22:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Check now Wink


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55541 is a reply to message #55539 ] Wed, 17 October 2012 23:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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Here is a screen snap just taken of a new upload! No polished colors, but colored WSF is cheaper than normal WSF!!??
index.php?t=getfile&id=21816&private=0

  • Attachment: Materials.png
    (Size: 80.91KB, Downloaded 346 time(s))

Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55551 is a reply to message #55541 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 06:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Blog says
colored WSF will be 10% cheaper until Oct 31, so thelist you got is probably correct.
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55560 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 11:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Non polished colors are no longer available, so all the colors you see are polished.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55562 is a reply to message #55560 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 12:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zeeflyboy  is currently offline Zeeflyboy
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Thu, 18 October 2012 11:39

Non polished colors are no longer available, so all the colors you see are polished.


except the black according to what I have read here, which is pretty confusing. I think there should be a note saying what is polished and what is not.

I also would really like to see black polished - what is the reason this isn't currently available as an option along with the others?

[Updated on: Thu, 18 October 2012 12:51 UTC]

Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55563 is a reply to message #55162 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 13:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I don't know the exact reasoning, all I know it's in the process of happening. We want to make sure we do it right, and with an unmatched consistency.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55564 is a reply to message #55563 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 13:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zeeflyboy  is currently offline Zeeflyboy
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Thanks for that - so hopefully black should soon join the other colours as being available polished?

Could you be so kind as to post here if you hear when it might be available? I have some parts waiting that I would love to try in a new black and polished material....

Cheers
Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55566 is a reply to message #55564 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 13:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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As soon as that information is available, it will be emailed to all shop owners, blogged about, posted about, etc. I can't give any advanced knowledge, I usually don't know myself till I see the emails Laughing . I can tell you these colors and black are just the beginning.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55574 is a reply to message #55566 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 14:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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Awesome! Looks like the new colors are working!

The one thing that I find confusing is that the new colors are not listed as "polished". People may assume they are not if they haven't read the latest announcements ...

[Updated on: Thu, 18 October 2012 14:59 UTC]

Re: Polished Colored WSF questions: yes, unpolished black and white remain... [message #55599 is a reply to message #55562 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 18:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey All,

Correct all Nylon SLS colors are polished by default EXCEPT for black.

Black is a different dyeing process that reacts poorly to polished models.

We will soon be moving to polished black nylon so all of your designs will be consistently awesome.



Duann Scott,
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55614 is a reply to message #55194 ] Thu, 18 October 2012 19:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Steve Winter  is currently offline Steve Winter
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duann wrote on Thu, 11 October 2012 15:01

Hey All,

...
The 3D printer we will be using for the new colors has a higher resolution then the current colors.

This means that tolerances will be tighter, finer layers and better resolution.

...


If you are using a higher resolution printing for the new polished colors it would be good to do some resolution tests with the new printing. This would be similar to the Shapeways Design rules & detail resolution for SLS 3D printing on this page:
http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/design_rules_for_3d_print ing
If there are higher resolutions options that Shop owners know how to design with, then they can utilize these to make new designs that may not have been possible before. It will also give designers the information they need on what to expect when they print with the new colors.

Also, will you be using the new higher resolution with White Strong and Flexible polished also?

The new colors look really great. But for the models I make I would just like some information on what various resolution models will look like before I start using these.

Best Regards
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #55646 is a reply to message #55614 ] Fri, 19 October 2012 12:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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Duann had already clarified the "higher resolution printer" later that same day (message #55213 in this same thread)
to mean the same model they are/were already using for WSF. So there are probably no adjustments to be made on
our (customer) side, it is just that print quality should look a tiny bit nicer than previous dyed models as a side effect
of retiring the older hardware.
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #56275 is a reply to message #55646 ] Sun, 04 November 2012 13:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar thomashuang.net  is currently offline thomashuang.net
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So, from the previous posts, am I correct that:

WSF is not polished, lower resolution machine
WPSF is polished, lower resolution machine
BSF is not polished, lower resolution machine
all other colored WSF is polished and printed in higher resolution?
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #56276 is a reply to message #56275 ] Sun, 04 November 2012 14:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mkroeker  is currently offline mkroeker
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From my reading of Duann's post #55213 in this thread on Thu, 11 October 2012 18:37 UTC:
Quote:


Dragoman, we are already using this 3D Printer for white nylon, both polished and not. (WSF PWSF)
It is only the colored nylons that are currently in the lower resolution machine


this should probably be :

WSF is not polished
WSFP is polished
BSF is not polished
all other colored WSF is polished

and all use the same ("high") resolution printer, while the old "colored WSF" before the process upgrade
was done on a lower resolution machine that has since been decomissioned.
Re: Polished Colored WSF question - will non-polished option remain? [message #56277 is a reply to message #56276 ] Sun, 04 November 2012 14:28 UTC Go to previous message
avatar thomashuang.net  is currently offline thomashuang.net
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"old colored" as in black, or just all models made before Oct. 17?

All SF now made with the higher resolution?

 
   
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