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What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5394] Fri, 24 July 2009 17:25 UTC Go to next message
avatar randomblink  is currently offline randomblink
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Materials / Special Prints Requested[ 69 vote(s) ]
1.Silver 4 / 6%
2.Silicone 5 / 7%
3.ABS Plastic 6 / 9%
4.Nickel / Steel (or a better metal for coin development) 1 / 1%
5.Glass 5 / 7%
6.Something that costs $0.25 per cubic cm 8 / 12%
7.Colored Printable Materials 2 / 3%
8.Alumide 5 / 7%
9.Wax (for mold development) 14 / 20%
10.Brass 5 / 7%
11.Ceramics 0 / 0%
12.Multi-Material Prints 6 / 9%
13.Chocolate 5 / 7%
14.Lightweight Metals 2 / 3%
15. 1 / 1%

If Shapeways Developers could select from any material, any finish, any look and/or any feel... what would you want?

from the original question

(can't get the poll to allow multiple selections... hrm. I guess just vote on the one from the list you would want the most, I'm for ABS Plastic, I wanna develop Custom Lego.)

[Updated on: Thu, 30 July 2009 14:35 UTC]


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5395 is a reply to message #5394 ] Fri, 24 July 2009 17:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar randomblink  is currently offline randomblink
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My requests would be:

  • Silver ( at a reasonable price )
  • Silicone ( to make molds to cast my own things )
  • ABS Plastic ( I am dying to get into custom Lego development )
  • Nickel / Steel ( I would love to make coins for games and such )
  • Glass ( I don't even know / care if this is possible, but I would LOVE to make my own drinking cups and... um... Water Pipes? )
  • Drinking Bottle Plastic ( to make drinking devices and see-thru )


Obviously a dream list, but there it is.


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5399 is a reply to message #5395 ] Fri, 24 July 2009 19:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Something that costs around $0.25 per cubic cm so I can print disposible prototypes....

hehe
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5414 is a reply to message #5399 ] Sun, 26 July 2009 15:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Whystler  is currently offline Whystler
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Well let's see ... we already have a black, a white, a translucent, a metal, and a relatively cheap material.

So I think it's really time for a coloured printable material. And by this I mean, a material that can be tatooed or printed with an image based on the image applied on a model. It's the only thing that is missing really.

-Whystler


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5421 is a reply to message #5399 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 08:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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I like the idea of a super cheap material that would be used for iterative development. It could be a lot less cool too then, right?

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5422 is a reply to message #5394 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 08:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar iguffick  is currently offline iguffick
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EOS produce a material called Alumide for their SLS printers.
It's the normal SLS material with grains of aluminium.
Although the final part is not metal, it gives a metallic appearance and can be ground.
It also gives a non-porous object.
There are no post processing operations like the 'proper' metal materials, so it should be cheaper!

They also have a carbon loaded material that could be useful for anyone wanting to electroplate their models. Although I'm not certain it is conductive?

Ian.
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5423 is a reply to message #5422 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 10:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Jettuh  is currently offline Jettuh
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i would love to see a material which can be used to make a good mold Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 27 July 2009 10:37 UTC]

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5424 is a reply to message #5423 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 11:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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Good molds or wax 3D printing seems to be a great thing for jewelery makers, but would a lot of you use it also?
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5425 is a reply to message #5424 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 11:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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I probably would. Not that I'm going to get into Jewelry creafting. But I could see myself making a mold for little metal parts.

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5426 is a reply to message #5394 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 12:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar fx  is currently offline fx
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What about V-Flash printing ? http://www.modelin3d.com . This could maybe allow a low cost per cm^3 but with overall good quality.
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5427 is a reply to message #5426 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 12:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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I haven't seen many parts by them personally, I'll order some samples but so far it doesn't look much cheaper than the usual stuff.
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5428 is a reply to message #5426 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 12:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Not sure what you are referring to with the V-Flash. I have requested a quote from their online system once (Providing basically the same service as Shapeways) They came in roughly 5 times more expensive. If you are suggesting buying a V-Flash printer, I'll caution you on this.

Any company that does not openly post the price tag is doing so to avoid "Sticker Shock". LOLz Very Happy

I priced out several 'low end' 3D printers and came to the conclusion that my definition of 'Affordable' and the vendors definition were vastly different. I.e. I could see myself paying under $5000 for a decent machine. Most >cough< "affordable 3D decent printers start at around $15000 USD.

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5430 is a reply to message #5428 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 13:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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15k, thats a bargain!
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5431 is a reply to message #5430 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 14:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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joris wrote on Mon, 27 July 2009 13:57

15k, thats a bargain!



LOLz! Not on my budget!
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5459 is a reply to message #5394 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 22:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Ushanka  is currently offline Ushanka
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I would use wax 3-d printing if Shapeways offered it. For sure.

In the meantime, WSF can be used for lost-wax casting. Original forum post with details.

It's sort of different, but I'd also like to see Shapeways offer laser-cutting, like what Ponoko does.

[Updated on: Mon, 27 July 2009 22:35 UTC]

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5461 is a reply to message #5394 ] Mon, 27 July 2009 22:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar EFFalcon  is currently offline EFFalcon
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I'd love a dirt cheap material as mentioned above, spending $200 only to realise i stuffed up aint fun Razz

and something that can offer a smooth finish. - supersuper detail material Razz
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5474 is a reply to message #5461 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 10:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar robert  is currently offline robert
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I like all your suggestions. Keep them coming!

How should we handle shippingcost with a dirt cheap material? If you want to make a model for $5 and we want it to ship to you it is obviously more expensive than $5. How should we handle that?

Cheers!

Robert
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5476 is a reply to message #5474 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 13:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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If it were slightly closer to the cost of injection molding, we could order in bulk and set up a land based store, or if we have interested businesses we could set up a warehouse. Oooooh imagine selling skids of models at a time. I would like to see glass printing myself. Color and Multi Color prints. Brass. photovoltaics (JK on that one would be cool but it will be years), ceramics, multi material prints, Copper, thats about all I can think of.


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5477 is a reply to message #5476 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 13:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Chocolate! I demand Chocolate!

That way if my design isn't up to snuff, I can eat dat bad boy!

Laughing LOLz Laughing
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5478 is a reply to message #5477 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 14:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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sounds like you want http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wTydnYmDrM


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5480 is a reply to message #5478 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 15:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Nah! I have seriously considered making one of the many DIY fabbers, but I always stop when I look at the quality of the print. The deposition style fabbers are just too low end for me. I don't want a blob of media that is roughly in the shape of my model, even if it is chocolate.

hehe
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5481 is a reply to message #5480 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 15:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Whystler  is currently offline Whystler
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I'm going to put a vote in here for that Alumide product mentioned above. I like the idea of a metallic finish without the highest cost of regular metal.

-Whystler


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5483 is a reply to message #5481 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 15:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Whystler wrote on Tue, 28 July 2009 15:45

I'm going to put a vote in here for that Alumide product mentioned above. I like the idea of a metallic finish without the highest cost of regular metal.

-Whystler


I'll second that... (Or third it... what ever the vote count is...)
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5509 is a reply to message #5474 ] Tue, 28 July 2009 22:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar EFFalcon  is currently offline EFFalcon
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robert wrote on Tue, 28 July 2009 10:24

I like all your suggestions. Keep them coming!

How should we handle shippingcost with a dirt cheap material? If you want to make a model for $5 and we want it to ship to you it is obviously more expensive than $5. How should we handle that?

Cheers!

Robert


Keep the minimum order price, perhaps a premium for postage on these items?
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5552 is a reply to message #5394 ] Wed, 29 July 2009 21:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar raalst  is currently offline raalst
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As I need parts for working RC models I would like something like "strong white and rigid" for parts like ships' propellors. something that can bear load, and resist wear.
I have seen several gears but it is not clear to me if these are used in anger, or just for show.

But I'm now first trying what SWF can offer.

as an aside, for a newbie those 3d programs are a nightmare. this is a large
hurdle for interested non-3d-modellers.
I'm now thwarted by devious manifolds or the lack of 'm. and no clue what is actually wrong. the manifolds video is a bit quick on what to click in blender. I think I do the manifold check correctly and everything is lighting up as yellow. I use wings3d to construct
the object.
it seems all pretty watertight to me... if anybody in the know can tell me why the atached model is rejected, I would be very grateful. (sorry for this, probably not the right spot but it vents off the frustration..)

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5553 is a reply to message #5552 ] Wed, 29 July 2009 21:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Yes, it's watertight, but that definition of Manifold is very mis-leading. I took a look at it and your issue is that between the inside and outside wall there is extra faces that do no need to be there....
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5554 is a reply to message #5553 ] Wed, 29 July 2009 22:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar raalst  is currently offline raalst
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BIG THANKS ! now I know where to look.

periscopes should be watertight Wink
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5555 is a reply to message #5554 ] Wed, 29 July 2009 22:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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.... and now back to our previously scheduled thread....

Chocolate... I gotta have Chocolate...
Laughing
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5558 is a reply to message #5474 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 10:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar s_f_x  is currently offline s_f_x
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I'll second (or third?) cheaper material - mainly to be able to make larger things. WSF is already really great and really cheap compared to other 3D printing, which is awesome. However, as volume is size cubed, it still gets very expensive for even moderately large things (i.e. something the size of a mug or drinking glass can easily be over $100 depending on wall thickness).
I don't think the shipping costs will be an issue (keep the $25 minimum) - I think what will happen is that people will still make objects worth $50 or more, no matter how cheap the material. Objects will simply become larger...

May I ask, where is most of the cost coming from? Is it the amortised cost of the printers and operating costs (as larger objects take longer), or is it the actual base material? I'm probably naive, but I imagine once you have a laser sintering machine, the base materials (i.e. plastic or metal powders) shouldn't cost that much... unless you have to buy them from the company that sold you the machine (and that is making a large part of their profits on ridiculously overpriced consumables - see normal inkjet printers, where the printer is cheaper than the ink cartridge...)
I think that's one of advantages of the reprap or similar home brew printers - the print quality is not great, but the materials they use are dirt cheap. And nobody worries about voiding the warranty on those ones... Wink
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5559 is a reply to message #5394 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 10:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar s_f_x  is currently offline s_f_x
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more suggestions:
Lightweight metal (e.g. aluminium, magnesium alloy, or something similar) at a reasonable price to make light and strong structural parts. I'm thinking R/C model components, robots, etc. Of course many parts are probably better CNC machined, but I can picture 3D printed parts that can be machined later for accurate dimensions where it counts (bearing mounts, etc.)

Multi-material prints: will probably be quite complicated but printing plastics with various properties/colours/rigidity in one go could be interesting (e.g plastic with rubber parts in between to make articulated models with flexible joints). May be difficult to properly specify it in the uploaded files - one way would be with colours, and then let the designer chose after uploading which colour corresponds to which material.

The ultimate coolness would be combined plastic and metal printing. Would be cool to create things with integrated electrical traces, e.g. to make lighting fixtures, light-sculptures with LEDs, or other electro-mechanical parts. I don't anticipate that anytime soon though, but (please!) see it as a challenge to prove me wrong! Smile
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5560 is a reply to message #5558 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 10:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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The costs come from:

The expense of buying the printer. The time it takes to print something. Cleaning the parts and checking the parts. And the material.

The costs of cleaning individual parts are recurring, you need people for that.

We would like to bring costs down continually for everyone but ideally now we would like to make larger things cheaper while making smaller things a bit more expensive.

But, I for one would not know how to do this fairly?
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5564 is a reply to message #5560 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 12:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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All of the expenses are the reasons I want one in my basement. Are you guys stuck on the EOS SLS printer? When I was looking at 3D printers for the company I work for (that they decided not to get) I was looking at the additive type of printer. Or at least I think that's what I remember it being called. The dimension and Objet printers. Objet has a multi material print. And has a lot higher accuracy. And they are fairly easy to clean.


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5565 is a reply to message #5564 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 13:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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We're definately not stuck on an EOS. We have EOS, Stratasys and Objet machines.

The Objet's are what do our White, Transparent & Black detail materials.

In my opinion the detail level between the large object machines we have and the EOS SLS machines is comparable.
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5569 is a reply to message #5565 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 13:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Ah, I see. Objet and Dimension both assured me they had the best accuracy. Which is one of the reasons I never pushed to hard on getting one because they both seemed like used car sales men to me. Now I did see some Dimension prints that were amazing. But I didn't get to look at the file, and take a caliper to the model to see the accuracies.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5570 is a reply to message #5560 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 14:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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joris wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 10:34

The costs come from:

The expense of buying the printer. The time it takes to print something. Cleaning the parts and checking the parts. And the material.

The costs of cleaning individual parts are recurring, you need people for that.

We would like to bring costs down continually for everyone but ideally now we would like to make larger things cheaper while making smaller things a bit more expensive.

But, I for one would not know how to do this fairly?


I don't think Shapeways could ever increase the cost of smaller items and have it deemed 'fair'. But you could adopt the volume discount mentality toward larger items. Just like the warehouse stores (Here in the US.) If you buy one roll of Toilet paper, it costs you $5.00, but if you buy the Galactic Star Commander Ultra Pooper Pak with 500 rolls of toilet paper, each roll only costs you $0.50.

You could apply this the the printed volume (cm3)
Of course, loonsbury would probably hate the idea... hehe

Alternatively; offer a volume discount based on the total purchases over a period of time and give a discount coupon.

Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5571 is a reply to message #5394 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 14:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Jettuh  is currently offline Jettuh
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@wikkid:

see the faq:

Do you have volume discounts? - ( See also: general, ordering )
Nope. Since it costs us exactly the same, per model, to produce one version of your model or a thousand versions of your model we are not able to give volume discounts.



think it's the same for bigger/larger models!
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5575 is a reply to message #5571 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 15:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar WiKKiDWidgets  is currently offline WiKKiDWidgets
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Jettuh wrote on Thu, 30 July 2009 14:35

@wikkid:

see the faq:

Do you have volume discounts? - ( See also: general, ordering )
Nope. Since it costs us exactly the same, per model, to produce one version of your model or a thousand versions of your model we are not able to give volume discounts.



think it's the same for bigger/larger models!



Yes, yes.. I have read every FAQ question probably six times by now. Very Happy hehe. But considering the question, that is a possible solution.

Hey randomblink, can you vote more than once. i don;t want to waste my vote on chocholate. Embarassed
Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5576 is a reply to message #5575 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 16:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar randomblink  is currently offline randomblink
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I tried... at least it's mentioned, right? lol

Sorry man...


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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5585 is a reply to message #5576 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 17:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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The reason bulk cost less isn't because it takes less material. If you buy one roll or the super pooper 500pk each roll still has a cardboard tube and 500 sheets of paper. The lower cost come from less packaging, less inventory, less boxes, if nestable even less space. Also, I don't know how shapeways does it, but if you print say 20 items in one print doesn't it cost less then doing 1 print at a time. Y'all may already nest to use up as much print area as possible in one go.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: What Material would YOU want Shapeways to offer [message #5588 is a reply to message #5394 ] Thu, 30 July 2009 20:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar Fingers  is currently offline Fingers
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In practice it does cost less (per cubic cm) to print larger objects and most 3d printing companies' prices reflect this. Even though the printing time and material costs scale up in proportion to the size, there's much less manual labor involved in printing one 100cm^3 object than a hundred 1cm^3 objects that will have to be individually picked out of the powder and cleaned. However, I really like the fact that Shapeways pricing is simple and reliable, and very affordable for small parts.

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