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Refuses to pay [message #51132] Wed, 11 July 2012 07:11 UTC Go to next message
avatar maximusin3d  is currently offline maximusin3d
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Hey guys anybody know how to go about handling a situation where somebody hires you via shapeways to make something and after the work is done refuses to pay? I live off of my freelance work so money is an issue and I could really use the promised income. Help?
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51133 is a reply to message #51132 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 07:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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If they've not paid, they've not commissioned the model, therefore you retain all rights to the model and have the right to do as you see fit with it, imo. Although is does depend really what kind of work you've done for them, e.g. a model based on their original artwork could have repercussions, however a model that you've created from a narative description is your interpretation and therefore your creation.

I usually find it best to forget & move on.



Re: Refuses to pay [message #51138 is a reply to message #51132 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 12:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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If it's a shapeways user you can email Natalia and myself, and we'll do what we can. And for the future, you may want to take half up front, so that it's not a complete loss.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51148 is a reply to message #51138 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 15:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar maximusin3d  is currently offline maximusin3d
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Thank you for the kind words and normally i would agree with you, but at this point i need the money haha

Thanks Youknowwho4eva i will PM you details
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51150 is a reply to message #51132 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 15:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Just to clarify for future reference. We'll investigate what's going on. We have the modeler for hire/needed sections so modelers and people needing models can get together, but any deal is between said people, and not Shapeways. We will look into any wrong doings as they pertain to the forum guidelines.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 July 2012 16:00 UTC]


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51157 is a reply to message #51150 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 18:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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In any business there will always be some jobs that the 'worker' gets burned on. How's about Shapeways start up some kind of escrow service (for a small fee)?
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51179 is a reply to message #51132 ] Wed, 11 July 2012 20:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Maethius  is currently offline Maethius
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Depending on how much money you are talking here, it may be worth it to do what I did on a job last year: did a logo for a company that then ceased all communications with me. After being civil for a month and saying, "hey, times are tough, anything I can do to help?" I changed my tune to this:

"I regret that communication seems to have broken down, however, I am informing you that I have filed a small claims action in xxxxxx County Court. Unfortunately, this means that not only am I forced to press you for the $250 you owe me but for the $45 filing fee and the $50 notice of intent to lien as well."

Now, I admit that I can be a bloody mess to get rid of, because I investigated my client and found where he lives, works, businesses he owned, etc. All through Google and public record. THIS IS NEVER INTENDED TO THREATEN, but for me it opened up a legitimate item for negotiation; I did the job for his business, so I informed him that in the end he would pay me because the county court would assure it. The difference was that, if he agreed to pay me immediately, I would drop the collection case and he and his business wouldn't suffer the publicity and credit hits that would follow.

Hopefully your case doesn't head in that direction, but, depending on how much you are talking here and who you did the job for, you may have options.

Oh, and my case? I got a check for the full amount plus fees. I even sent him a thank you, but he has never said a single word to me since.
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51225 is a reply to message #51179 ] Thu, 12 July 2012 13:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BAROBA  is currently offline BAROBA
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I got burned too, by another member that also offers his modeling-services here.
He needed the models ASAP, which I did.
Then I mailed him I was ready and he never got back to me.
Luckily for me I didn't send him the models, so he didn't get what he needed. But still he needs to pay me for the work I did. I don't work for free either...
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51414 is a reply to message #51225 ] Mon, 16 July 2012 13:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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For my freelance gigs, whenever I work with a new client I ask for a 50% payment up front. If they refuse, you know you shouldn't accept the job. For future projects, once I know I can trust them, I usually let go of that requirement.

Cheers,

Bart


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51432 is a reply to message #51414 ] Mon, 16 July 2012 17:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tamert  is currently offline Tamert
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Is it common to do artistic freelance type work without a written contract?

I'm from the engineering world where contracts are signed before work is even scheduled.
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51459 is a reply to message #51132 ] Tue, 17 July 2012 13:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar theonlytexaspete  is currently offline theonlytexaspete
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I alwasy take the view if im hiring to get work done, i pay upfront,and so far that has worked for me, havent had any fingers burned yet! Smile
Alexei


A Tribute to Christopher Reeve
www.christopherreeve.co.uk
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51668 is a reply to message #51459 ] Sun, 22 July 2012 07:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar R.Kurczewski  is currently offline R.Kurczewski
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Is it common to do artistic freelance type work without a written contract?

I'm from the engineering world where contracts are signed before work is even scheduled.


And what does it change in case of small- less then say 200$- contracts ? Imagine that your "contractor" is a teenager that lives on other continent and yes, you do have a contract. Would you go through all the pains (remember, we are talking freelance here- no large budget margin for court cases) to finaly get your money ? Reality is: in most of the cases it is simply not worth it.

Sure, 50% upfront is a good practice (sometimes the only way to protect your interest). Other possible solution might be introducing something like "vendor rating", with people rating each other after contract is finalized. Of course no solution will be fool-proof, but taking care of removing bad apples from access to forums/ customer base might be a good start.
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51681 is a reply to message #51668 ] Sun, 22 July 2012 20:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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It's called "Pro Forma". Next time, up front, make it clear that completed work needs to be paid in full before delivery! Send .pdf thumbnails to show work is done, but a finished .stl, not until paid in full. You cannot bend the rules because you "need the work" or imagine that insisting on pro forma will reduce your revenue stream. If someone respects your talent enough to commission you, then they should also respect your business terms. Anything less is a recipe for disaster.
-G


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51693 is a reply to message #51681 ] Mon, 23 July 2012 09:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar R.Kurczewski  is currently offline R.Kurczewski
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GlenG- 100% agreed, but then again transfer fees can make entire thing unpractical in case of smaller gigs.
Re: Refuses to pay [message #51704 is a reply to message #51132 ] Mon, 23 July 2012 17:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Phxman  is currently offline Phxman
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I was freelance for 20 years before I retired.

This is a common problem, not only here but among freelancers generally where their work is abandoned by the person commissioning them

From the start, it is a good idea to have a deposit, and regular stage payments agreed to keep pace with the work. The customer should indicate what amount they will underwrite for future stages, and be relied upon for those stage payments.

[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2012 17:20 UTC]

Re: Refuses to pay [message #51904 is a reply to message #51132 ] Thu, 26 July 2012 13:21 UTC Go to previous message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Absolutely agree with GlenG - that's the only way to go. I would never do work for someone whom I didn't know without getting paid BEFORE I deliver the final product. And with this sort of work it is very easy to show that you have done the work before sending the final product.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery

 
   
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