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[Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49226] Thu, 31 May 2012 16:04 UTC Go to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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Hey guys!

We've seen a lot of amazing designs for the Elasto Flex material. We've also learned a few more things about the current limits of this material. Here are the learnings and updated rules:

1) Minimum bounding box: 1.5x1.5x1.5mm AND x+y+z must be greater than or equal to 11 cm
2) Minimum density: 5%
3) Multiple Parts per STL: Not acceptable (we need to handle each item with more care for this material, and for that we need to have start up per part)

Items currently being promoted in the Blog Post and the Home Page for this material will be produced regardless.

Let me know if you guys have any questions please.

Thanks,
Nancy

[Updated on: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:06 UTC]



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Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49231 is a reply to message #49226 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 17:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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If there are multiple separate, but interlocked parts, is that acceptable? Like chain mail?


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49237 is a reply to message #49231 ] Thu, 31 May 2012 18:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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When I say multiple parts I mean separate parts. If you have two chain links interlocking that is considered one part.

Thanks!



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Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49260 is a reply to message #49226 ] Fri, 01 June 2012 05:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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is #1 right, 11cm?
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49501 is a reply to message #49260 ] Thu, 07 June 2012 03:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar neuralfirings  is currently offline neuralfirings
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Yes, this is the added dimensions of the bounding box.

So, 1x1x9cm is ok, 4x4x3 cm is too small.
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #49507 is a reply to message #49501 ] Thu, 07 June 2012 06:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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lol... 1+1+9 = 11, 4+4+3 = 11

its the units, cm, i'm questioning as the other materials have similar restictions but the minimum is measured in mm.
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50299 is a reply to message #49507 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 18:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JuliaDee  is currently offline JuliaDee
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It would be helpful to have an answer to stop4stuff's question: is "11cm" correct, or was it a typo and should be 11mm, not cm, which seems much more reasonable. 11cm is huge.
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50302 is a reply to message #50299 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 19:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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The 3 dimensions must add up to 11cm (110mm).

So, 4x4x4cm (x+y+z = 12cm) is ok.
4x4x2cm (x+y+z = 10cm) is too small.

This way we get "big enough" items without limiting flat items and pole structures.

Hope that helps.



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Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50303 is a reply to message #50302 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 20:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JuliaDee  is currently offline JuliaDee
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nancyliang wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 19:49

The 3 dimensions must add up to 11cm (110mm).

So, 4x4x4cm (x+y+z = 12cm) is ok.
4x4x2cm (x+y+z = 10cm) is too small.

This way we get "big enough" items without limiting flat items and pole structures.

Hope that helps.



Shocked I just ordered 16 pieces of 3 different parts that are about 8mm x 8mm x 8mm each and am extremely disappointed to find that you can't print them, as they are critical to my project and I was so happy when I read that you can now do parts in TPE. Crying or Very Sad

Why didn't your system flag these as not meeting your design rules? Surely it knows the size of the bounding box from the STL? Is there a way to cancel the order or will that happen automatically later?
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50304 is a reply to message #50303 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 20:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pfeiffer stylez  is currently offline pfeiffer stylez
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JuliaDee wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 20:02

Is there a way to cancel the order (...) ?

That part is easy. Just contact the customer service.


Hey,
would it be an option to connect your 16 pieces with small sprues ?

I haven't use BE yet,
but I think it should be pretty easy to cut the pieces apart and remove the sprues' leftovers with a thin blade.
(At least that works well for WSF models...)
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50305 is a reply to message #50304 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 20:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JuliaDee  is currently offline JuliaDee
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pfeiffer stylez wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 20:39

JuliaDee wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 20:02

Is there a way to cancel the order (...) ?

That part is easy. Just contact the customer service.


Hey,
would it be an option to connect your 16 pieces with small sprues ?

I haven't use BE yet,
but I think it should be pretty easy to cut the pieces apart and remove the sprues' leftovers with a thin blade.
(At least that works well for WSF models...)


Sure, I can connect parts together with sprues, no problem. What is the maximum size of the agglomerated part? What is the minimum size of the sprues?

I guess don't really understand the minimum size restriction. I was thinking it has something to do with feature size but if you're suggesting that I connect my little bitty parts together with sprues to "fool" the design rules into thinking my part is large then I guess that's not the case. Thanks!
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50307 is a reply to message #50305 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 21:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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Hey JuliaDee,

Elasto is not a good material for small, highly detailed parts. Any embossed detail will grow and any engraved detail will shrink. Anything that is 8x8x8mm will print out with little details and probably a huge size difference than what is intended. It might grow to be about 1.5x1.5x1.5mm once printed.

Second, having a lot of loose parts in the build makes the entire tray harder to depowder. Right now, our production facility has asked for a bigger minimum box size.

You can sprue them together, but make sure the sprues you use is 1.5mm in diameter, otherwise it would likely break in production.

Last, please remember that this material does indeed grow. Any items that needs to be tight fighting or accurate down to the millimeter, I would try in another material. Embossed parts tends to "grow" up to 0.8mm and engraved details can shrink up to 1.0mm. For something that's super small, 0.8mm is basically doubling your size! The minimum bounding box are there for a reason (to prevent designs that lose all detail in printing, to print designs that "grow" to where the size doubles).. so even if you "fool" the rejection, this is still very much a reality.

I hope that helps, let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks



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Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50308 is a reply to message #50305 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 21:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pfeiffer stylez  is currently offline pfeiffer stylez
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max. bounding box volume:
27 x 22 x 17 centimetres

sprues:
same as min. wall thickness (1,5 mm)
For BE, I suggest to use round sprues with a diameter of 1,6 mm.


It's not just "fooling the rules", it's also a legitimately way to safe money. Wink
Shapeways' production staff can handle it as single item - no searching for tiny models below all that support material, less "is everyting there?" counting...
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50309 is a reply to message #50307 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 22:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar JuliaDee  is currently offline JuliaDee
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nancyliang wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 21:22

Hey JuliaDee,

Elasto is not a good material for small, highly detailed parts. Any embossed detail will grow and any engraved detail will shrink. Anything that is 8x8x8mm will print out with little details and probably a huge size difference than what is intended. It might grow to be about 1.5x1.5x1.5mm once printed.



OK, that is definitely not going to work for me (assuming you meant that it will grow to 1.5cm, not 1.5mm); I need dimensional accuracy. I guess I'll have to design a mold and cast the parts in silicone.

Thanks,
Julia
Re: [Design Rule Update] Elasto Plastic [message #50310 is a reply to message #50308 ] Sun, 24 June 2012 22:13 UTC Go to previous message
avatar JuliaDee  is currently offline JuliaDee
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pfeiffer stylez wrote on Sun, 24 June 2012 21:24

max. bounding box volume:
27 x 22 x 17 centimetres

sprues:
same as min. wall thickness (1,5 mm)
For BE, I suggest to use round sprues with a diameter of 1,6 mm.

It's not just "fooling the rules", it's also a legitimately way to safe money. Wink
Shapeways' production staff can handle it as single item - no searching for tiny models below all that support material, less "is everyting there?" counting...


Thanks for the explanations, pfieffer, makes sense.

Julia

 
   
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