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ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42680] Tue, 24 January 2012 23:37 UTC Go to next message
avatar jzichek  is currently offline jzichek
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I was researching the ProJet HD 3000 and discovered that there is an improved model on the market, the HD 3000plus:

http://printin3d.com/3d-printers/projet-hd-3000-3d-professio nal-3d-printer

According to the specs, it has a 60% larger build envelope and a 16 micron resolution, which I believe is superior to the current FUD resolution of 28 microns. Does Shapeways have any plans to use these printers in the near future?

Thanks,

Jared
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42920 is a reply to message #42680 ] Fri, 27 January 2012 21:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GWMT  is currently offline GWMT
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8 x 7 x 6 is better than 5 x 7 x 6 but I hope they can expand UHD (aka FUD) and XHD build volume to match HD (aka FD) at 11.75 x 7.3 x 8 or larger.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42928 is a reply to message #42680 ] Fri, 27 January 2012 22:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Have they improved the issues with support material leaving a bad texture in the final part?
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42931 is a reply to message #42920 ] Fri, 27 January 2012 22:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jzichek  is currently offline jzichek
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XHD at 11.75 x 7.3 x 8 inches or larger - that would indeed be awesome! However, I'd be happy with XHD at the smaller build volume too.

Of course, if Shapeways can't solve the problem of surface roughness where the wax support material meets the resin, then it won't be of much use - for me at least. I received a FUD reprint last month and a recent cleaning revealed that the problem remains. The roughness is, of course, in an area that I can't sand without ruining the detail, so into the trash it goes. I'm trying Moddler next to see if they can produce a better quality print.

Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42933 is a reply to message #42931 ] Fri, 27 January 2012 22:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GWMT  is currently offline GWMT
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There's a lot of things I'd like to print in FUD that are longer than 8 inches.

The only solution to the roughness problem where the support material touches the object is to re-orient or re-design the object so the sensitive area won't be in contact with support material. The layers of support and print material slightly overlap each other (like looking at the end of a pile of logs).

A perfectly calibrated machine only minimizes the roughness, it'll never be completely eliminated.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42937 is a reply to message #42933 ] Fri, 27 January 2012 23:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jzichek  is currently offline jzichek
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Quote:

A perfectly calibrated machine only minimizes the roughness, it'll never be completely eliminated.


Given this fact, being able to specify orientation of the parts is absolutely essential - then we can at least attempt to engineer our objects to minimize the problem. Let's hope that option appears here ASAP.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #42946 is a reply to message #42937 ] Sat, 28 January 2012 00:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Roy_Stevens  is currently offline Roy_Stevens
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Looking at the specs of the 3000HD, it's only the Z axis that gets improved resolution. The X and Y axis are stil 750x750 so it wouldn't really help, especially since Shapeways orients our prints willy-nilly.


Earl Grey, hot.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #43734 is a reply to message #42946 ] Thu, 09 February 2012 12:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Sadwargamer  is currently offline Sadwargamer
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I received a print sample at 16microns from the supplier here in the UK and WOW - the detail was amazing - certainly far better than the FUD model I received from shapeways. So I would certainly go 16 microns if made available.

More importantly there were no problems with surface quality (no ripples or lines etc...) so I was very impressed...

Its been a month or so since i checked and just wondering of the print quality issue has been resolved with FUD?

regards
Andy

[Updated on: Thu, 09 February 2012 12:59 UTC]

Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #43741 is a reply to message #43734 ] Thu, 09 February 2012 16:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar darthviper107  is currently offline darthviper107
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Sadwargamer wrote on Thu, 09 February 2012 12:59

I received a print sample at 16microns from the supplier here in the UK and WOW - the detail was amazing - certainly far better than the FUD model I received from shapeways. So I would certainly go 16 microns if made available.

More importantly there were no problems with surface quality (no ripples or lines etc...) so I was very impressed...

Its been a month or so since i checked and just wondering of the print quality issue has been resolved with FUD?

regards
Andy




They've fixed the random ripples and lines that have been on prints (at least on the last two prints I got). But there's still orientation roughness.

Weird though on my last print, both sides were extremely smooth, but they were both pretty much flat, then there were rounded shapes that had the roughness on one side, but the flat parts on the same side didn't have the roughness.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44279 is a reply to message #43741 ] Tue, 21 February 2012 18:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tamert  is currently offline Tamert
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I use another vendor that provides the higher resolution process (as opposed to FUD here on shapeways). I'm very happy with the results. I've found it much easier to meet tightly tolerances specifications with the higher resolution process. I use the "HD Blue" material.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44294 is a reply to message #44279 ] Tue, 21 February 2012 22:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GWMT  is currently offline GWMT
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Tamert wrote on Tue, 21 February 2012 18:25

I use another vendor that provides the higher resolution process (as opposed to FUD here on shapeways). I'm very happy with the results. I've found it much easier to meet tightly tolerances specifications with the higher resolution process. I use the "HD Blue" material.


ZoomRP in California? How do their prices compare to Shapeways?
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44301 is a reply to message #44294 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 07:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tamert  is currently offline Tamert
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GWMT wrote on Tue, 21 February 2012 22:24

Tamert wrote on Tue, 21 February 2012 18:25

I use another vendor that provides the higher resolution process (as opposed to FUD here on shapeways). I'm very happy with the results. I've found it much easier to meet tightly tolerances specifications with the higher resolution process. I use the "HD Blue" material.


ZoomRP in California? How do their prices compare to Shapeways?


Yep, I use zoomrp. I haven't figured out how they price things. Sometimes it's ~shapeways. Other times it's 2x but that is about the limit (for their SLS nylon process). Their HD Blue process costs more than FUD not not vastly more and feels about right for the higher resolution. Also, you have the option for much faster deliveries if that is of interest. Sometimes it's necessary since shapeways is a 2 week process at minimum.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44328 is a reply to message #44301 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 20:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Tamert wrote on Wed, 22 February 2012 07:19

I haven't figured out how they price things.

Probably based in how busy the queue is. If the queue is empty, lower the price to attract orders, if full, raise price and see who drops. You can't serve more than the machine can fit, so whoever wants to pay, gets the item done.
Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44338 is a reply to message #44328 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 21:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tamert  is currently offline Tamert
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I received a number of PM's asking for some pictures of things that I've had manufacturing using the 16 um process to see both the as received state and the cleaned state. Just like the lower resolution printing process, support materials are used and need to be removed after printing.

The first attached picture shows one of my recent prints. Notice in the corner a spec of white material. This is support material that wasn't removed by zoomrp.com. Following the suggested post processing routine (2 hour soak in 10% solution of sodium hydroxide and then water/IPA rinse) I was able to completely clean the model.

(why can I only attach 1 picture per message?)

Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44339 is a reply to message #44338 ] Wed, 22 February 2012 22:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tamert  is currently offline Tamert
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A picture of the cleaned model should be attached to this message.

Re: ProJet HD 3000plus with 16 micron resolution - coming to Shapeways soon? [message #44356 is a reply to message #44338 ] Thu, 23 February 2012 03:07 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Does this blue/grey material differ a lot from SW's white, black or transparent ones? Or similar properties in different color (and higher resolution, of course)?

Tamert wrote on Wed, 22 February 2012 21:59

(why can I only attach 1 picture per message?)

Forum's configuration, one attachment per post, with exceptions like "it arrived".

 
   
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